California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

actually you were killed because you were so boldy wrong.

Pretty sure you're incorrect about this, as I've read the relevant 400 posts in the scum QT, but if it makes you feel better to egotrip that scum killed us to save you, enjoy the delusion.

Actually CKD is correct, I insisted on killing you because you were attacking the player we believed was our Traitor way too hard. I wanted to give CKD more breathing room from having to defend himself and the SMG from attacks, that were, frankly, really really convincing and well thought out.

[DrippingGoofball]

This was really the only reason I thought Talilan needed to be lynched. I still don't understand why GaB didn't take the spot before endgame.

As town I would have, but as scum, it was a bad idea.

We had the option of influencing Talilan in-thread if we felt it was necessary. The downside of a firing would have been drawing attention to my possible motives, which would have come out of the blue at the last minute in end scene. I took quite a few risks on-camera to get the points, so I needed to play conservative in other areas. Furthermore, I would have had to bear responsibility for the decisions, it was better for us that Talilan make the decisions, and suffer for making the wrong ones we hoped Talilan would make.

[VP Baltar]

It was definitely a good call on your part. I just couldn't see you guys leaving the endgame to chance like that.

[DrippingGoofball]

It was just scum rhetoric ramped up the max...

Not really; as much as I wanted Glork to be out of the game because he's a good player, I was able to stay off Glork's lynch altogether - Talilan did all the footwork.

I invested most of my scheming for getting the points on-camera, the drawback was that I needed to keep myself safe from the off-camera decisions. I was unusually conservative off-camera because I wanted to influence the on-camera choices as long as possible.

[Zachrulez]

It was just scum rhetoric ramped up the max...

Not really; as much as I wanted Glork to be out of the game because he's a good player, I was able to stay off Glork's lynch altogether - Talilan did all the footwork.

Yeah... you were the not voting scum in that instance... lol

CKD's actions and his scum claim were a huge break for you in that instance. It quieted us on you a lot.

[MrBuddyLee]

Nominating Goofballs for the "Is it over yet or should I keep lying?" Scummy:

Actually CKD is correct, I insisted on killing you because you were attacking the player we believed was our Traitor way too hard.

A question: is it more important to remove BEC (as a townie, assistant producer) or JellyLee who isn't drinking our Kool-Aid?

MJL would be choice three as he's the most likely to drop the trait that's troublesome (being more or less right.)

Question is, should we kill Jelly instead of BEC? I don't mind being pro-town, but I hate him being right. We don't need that kind of aggravation.

Yeah, Jelly is playing a very obvtown game.

I could switch to a JellyLee kill. He's injecting clarity into the game setup, and I don't like it one bit.

IMO JellyLee is much more of a danger to us than Elmosaurian.

As for the kill, I still prefer BEC for now. MJL is playing well but I want to see if he'll keep it up now that KY Krew isn't he focus of the scum game that he had been. If he does we can kill him later

"Would killing Jelly validate some of that hydra's musings? Hmm."

NEVER > it's considered very scummy to even discuss why a particular player was killed

"And a Jelly kill would implicate CKD more."

This can be interpreted as the scum trying to frame CKD.

Wherefore art this insistence of which you speak, dodger?

[Glork]

I appreciate the votes of confidence, Zach/Thesp, but a number of my suspicions were flat-out wrong. A few things I eventually got right, but of my final projected scumlist before I was lynched, I think I was only right about StarKiss. :/

[DrippingGoofball]

Wherefore art this insistence of which you speak, dodger?

I know why I ultimately sent the kill, MBL. Your arguments against CKD were good and we needed the CKD-traitor kept alive. I may not have expanded on it much in the QT, but I know why I wanted to dead.

<3

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP:

"why I wanted YOU dead."

[ShadowLurker]

Can I point out a lurker hunt would've netted us 3/5 of the scum (Thok, Pooky, StarKiss)?

[Thok]

Can I point out a lurker hunt would've netted us 3/5 of the scum (Thok, Pooky, StarKiss)?

You do realize that I have more combined posts in the two threads than you, right?

[DrippingGoofball]

Can I point out a lurker hunt would've netted us 3/5 of the scum (Thok, Pooky, StarKiss)?

Also, a lot of townies.

[hewitt]

Can I point out a lurker hunt would've netted us 3/5 of the scum (Thok, Pooky, StarKiss)?

Also, a lot of townies.

yeah i definitely would've been dunzo a lot sooner lol.

[zu_Faul]

I really think it was actually the Assistant Producer who let us down in this game. Panzerjager really made terrible picks to hold the roles and his unnecessary drawing attention to the fact I had information from Off Stage was really stupid.

Well, choosing was not trivial either.
I know I made some really idiotic stuff (not appointing a stuntman etc. (well, the first time, the second time it was planned), but the thing is that you often had to make a decision which lasted for quite some time, so you had quite some responsibility. And remember that the AP could not choose from everyone, as several people already had roles.
That said, I have not reviewed Panzer's picks, but mine were quite ok except for GaB.

[Zorblag]

So to ignore most of what has been said since Troll posted last (it be interesting and Troll has some views on things but them no be vital) Troll would like to hear from those who thought that Troll's presence being hidden from the town for the second half of the game was unethical or unfair. Troll no views it as something Troll finds unacceptable but Troll be known to push boundaries in games from time to time.

If you feel that it wasn't right for some reason Troll wonders if you could pin down why. Troll's being there no gave the scum any extra votes and Troll no changed any of Papa Zito's play in particular after Troll left (his contributions in the game were almost entirely without input from Troll as our playstyles really do be different enough that advice on that front wouldn't have been too helpful.) Troll did towards the end of the day do some talking about scum strategy in the QT (people can look at what Troll was doing towards the end) and Troll was part of the group that organized the timing for the final hammer but Troll no thinks that the town knowing that Troll might have been doing that if Troll were still active would have made any impact in the game itself.

Having said that, those who expressed that feeling in here clearly no be alone about it. When Troll posted Troll's guess for the true identity of Mr. Grey (Troll was right but the scum would have gotten it later anyhow due to Papa Zito's work) Troll got a PM from inHimshallibe saying that I should probably delete the post in the Quick Topic as him assumed Troll had violated some rule. Him thought Troll was out of the game as well.

Troll knows that Troll no was doing what was expected but to Troll that be part of the game of mafia in general. If Troll was an extra player altogether Troll could absolutely appreciate the problem; as part of a hydra Troll no finds it nearly so clear. Troll be interested to hear why people think Troll crossed some boundary that Troll no should have as Troll no be sure exactly what it would be.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Hmm, and one more unrelated thing perhaps. In the scum quick topic Troll said before the game even started that the best town strategy would be to kill off any players that the town wouldn't want to take into endgame as town (or some such thing.) Scum hunting was a good idea and knowing what suspicions were come end game was important but given that the scum were going to pick who went to endgame (and it was there in the rules from the start) it was surprising to Troll that there wasn't more talk of that sort of elimination plan.

Troll, had Troll been a non-hydra town player in this game would have brought that up at the beginning of the game. Troll would also have expected to gain a huge amount of suspicion over it as it be a non-standard approach to a game and Troll's experience has been that non-standard approaches get little love. If Mighty Orbots as a hydra had been town then Troll would only have done it if Papa Zito thought it was reasonable as Troll no would have felt good about throwing a hydra partner into that much suspicion right from the start.

Troll thinks Troll would also have given a bit more attention to the not lynching possibility towards the end of the game but Troll be a bit more inclined to not lynch or not kill in various situations than many. Troll also had the advantage in this case of knowing what the results from the points from the on camera portion of the game were to take into account when making that decision. Without that access it would have been much murkier.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zachrulez]

So to ignore most of what has been said since Troll posted last (it be interesting and Troll has some views on things but them no be vital) Troll would like to hear from those who thought that Troll's presence being hidden from the town for the second half of the game was unethical or unfair. Troll no views it as something Troll finds unacceptable but Troll be known to push boundaries in games from time to time.

If you feel that it wasn't right for some reason Troll wonders if you could pin down why. Troll's being there no gave the scum any extra votes and Troll no changed any of Papa Zito's play in particular after Troll left (his contributions in the game were almost entirely without input from Troll as our playstyles really do be different enough that advice on that front wouldn't have been too helpful.) Troll did towards the end of the day do some talking about scum strategy in the QT (people can look at what Troll was doing towards the end) and Troll was part of the group that organized the timing for the final hammer but Troll no thinks that the town knowing that Troll might have been doing that if Troll were still active would have made any impact in the game itself.

Having said that, those who expressed that feeling in here clearly no be alone about it. When Troll posted Troll's guess for the true identity of Mr. Grey (Troll was right but the scum would have gotten it later anyhow due to Papa Zito's work) Troll got a PM from inHimshallibe saying that I should probably delete the post in the Quick Topic as him assumed Troll had violated some rule. Him thought Troll was out of the game as well.

Troll knows that Troll no was doing what was expected but to Troll that be part of the game of mafia in general. If Troll was an extra player altogether Troll could absolutely appreciate the problem; as part of a hydra Troll no finds it nearly so clear. Troll be interested to hear why people think Troll crossed some boundary that Troll no should have as Troll no be sure exactly what it would be.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Well I guess a good way to approach this is to put out a hypothetical scenario of how you would have felt as town, if me and the wife had a similar issue with our hydra and we happened to be scum. Like say I got into a fight with her over playing style, and then stormed out of the game, and she made a big post about how I was leaving the hydra so you were just playing with her, and then halfway toward the end of the game, I slipped my way back into the scum quicktopic to strategize with scum, all the while leaving the town unaware of the fact that I had returned to the game, and simply not bothering to post again until I organized a quick hammer with my scum team.

They way you kinda came about that kinda feels like you left and then came back just to fuck with our minds, and then to come back and post only a hammer just felt a bit like spiking the ball into our faces after you seemed to fool us about the fact that you had left the game when you seemed to still be playing.

If you can't see it from the perspective I laid out seeing how it might look and feel from our shoes, then it probably will be difficult for you to understand why we feel the way we do about it.

[Zorblag]

@Zachrulez, Troll does understand how it could be frustrating to be on the other end of Troll's play this game. Troll's intent no was to mess with the town's mind (though as scum that do be an important part of Troll's job) but rather in this case it was to more effectively deal with the scum team (them thinking Troll had left the game almost certainly made the scum play much smoother for a stretch of a couple scenes.) Troll also probably would just have cast the hammer vote with no extra commentary but when Troll broached the possibility in the scum topic that was Papa Zito's suggested hammer (him was the public face for the Mighty Orbots hydra and it was a mostly innocuous way for Troll to hammer Troll thought.) Having said that, intent aside Troll sees a dislike issue that you be raising here. Troll no be sure about how that makes it unethical in any way though.

Troll also wonders if Troll's Post 1052 mitigates your feelings any? Troll posted that around the time that Troll started being an active presence in the scum quick topic again after leaving (it was that scene certainly) and it did give the town a heads up that Troll was still keeping up with the game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

EBWOP: Troll no be saying that Troll's 1052 post was put there to let the town know that Troll was still about, that was just a side effect that Troll had to take into account when deciding whether to make it. Had Papa Zito been posting regularly at that point Troll no would have made it. Troll did recognize at the time that it was a warning to the town to be aware that Troll might still be around (and was vaguely worried that it might come back to bite Mighty Orbots later.) In the end the risk was worth it to avoid the prod in Troll's judgment.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zachrulez]

It's probably just a hydra issue that I will have to watch out for in the future.

Most of the blatant hydra issues seemed to be done by people who were scum.

Me and the wife had our own disagreements, but none of it ever got aired during the game. I will probably consider those kind of noisy issues between a hydra account to be scummy in the future.

[Yosarian2]

Troll: You don't have any obligation to say which of the hydra heads are posting at any given time. Some hydras refuse to say. Also one head of a hydra could vanish completly and there wouldn't be a replacement. So, no, as a scum, I don't see anything wrong or unfair about you lying about that for strategic reasons.

Zack: Neah, I don't think so. The two heads of a hydra should act like two different people who happen to be 100% confirmed to each other. IF you disagree, feel free to disagree in thread; that just makes it easier for the town to read you, and that helps the town

[Zorblag]

Troll apparently follows the internet memes Troll has heard so much about as Troll agrees with Yosarian2 here. That do be how Troll thinks that a hydra should ideally function. Troll was mostly asking about this as a couple people said that them thought Troll had done something objectionable in some way and Troll was trying to figure out what it might have been. As Troll said, Troll understands the position Zachrulez be coming from but Troll no sees how the irritation crosses the ethical lines that people had mentioned. Troll be asking for the sake of knowledge rather than to cause an issue though as Troll simply has trouble seeing the point of view expressed.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Adel]

why does Mr. Grey have the Sacred Chao as his avatar?

[Zorblag]

Because him was Malaclypse the Younger.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[discordian algorithm]

Malaclypse the Younger.

bows