Mafiascum.net

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)

For the record, I still don't think that Tammy was ever truly obvtown. I could see them being scum posting a lot of what they have. Their reads being massively out of whack with mine is also something that concerned me, because all-in-all, something about them did kinda feel off.

...But I ask myself, "Do you truly think they could be scum?" And the answer, while a reluctant yes, spawns the question, "Okay, dumb question; do you truly think they actually scum?", to which, the answer--after a small bit of pondering--never changes. Closing eyes. Breathing in. Clearing mind. And as exhaling, shaking my head.
No.
No, I don't.

Which begged the question, if they're not scum, where do I place them? I haven't felt them obvtown. I still don't. But my answer was quite undeniable. In spite of not having any reason. No logic. No backing. Off of just my gut, my instinct, my feeling. I look at them and think, how town are they?

Near the top of my townreads. Something about them just feels like town. Not obvtown. That's a different feeling. But...still town.

Kinda wish I had a way to make that make sense, but this is the best I've got.

In post 1674, Yulia Jue wrote:Take this chip

AND EAT IT

Coincidentally enough, I've been reading a few TVTropes articles centering around Light Yagami.

In post 1676, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 1674, Yulia Jue wrote:Take this chip

AND EAT IT

Coincidentally enough, I've been reading a few TVTropes articles centering around Light Yagami.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)

Bluntly, these guys are obvtown. They're my strongest townreads, and always will be. I don't suck at reading Nati; I caught wind of him-as-scum decently-easily last time I hydraed with SSK. (For that matter, SSK is apparently excellent at reading Nati. And while SSK hasn't been actively participating--again--if he so much as had a morsel of suspicion about Nati, I can assure you, he'd be down Nati's throat.)

And zMuffinman is someone who I generally can read well, too. As my mental health has degraded, so too has my accuracy, but my firm calls on him haven't been wrong. My suspicion on him in Touhou, my firmer townreads in the Xeno games (the ending doesn't count), and so on and so forth. And this just feels like the town-him. I suppose it is theoretically possible that my skills have degenerated to such a low that he completely eludes me, but I sincerely doubt that.

Basically, everything about their play is town. That's aside from how others have read him, too. The wagon on them built up a bit too easily for them to actually be scum, and then there's also their role and how they've handled it. All insanely town. Throw in what would have to be the most blatant buddying act of all time with regards to them essentially sheeping me, and you've got someone who is quite literally essentially a 4-player hydra with me, in that they are pure town.

In post 1677, Yulia Jue wrote:

That shit ruins your free time, you were warned.

Ever had 300+ tabs open of TVTropes?

I have.

Trust me.

I know.

This is me as a recovering addict.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)

I guess they're town. I don't really have anything saying why, nor really a classification. I suppose they're basically midgrade town. Not weak, not strong, just town. There's concerns about things in their play, but ultimately, I feel like they're more town than not.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:9 ANgryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)

This one's going to be tough to explain. Basically, ElementalHawk's posting came across as not astronomically scummy, but definitely a leading candidate for scum. It wasn't pure scumposting, but it was quite bad. They posting a lot of halfhearted, flat, empty stuff, which when put together painted a picture that didn't look town.

Enter the AN gry Pidgeon. I won't pretend to have perfect accuracy reading him. I get paranoid of him being scum all the time. Yet ultimately...when he's town, I've always ended up figuring it out. When he's scum, I've nearly always ended up figuring it out. (And the times I didn't, I had him as suspicious but ultimately dropped him for whatever reason.) For him to be town here, I'd have to have been really off my mark, off my game, for far too consistently long; it'd basically be a record. Because I'm not seeing the town in him.

Instead of seeing a town-AP, I'm seeing an AP-pretending-to-be-town. The actions he do vaguely look town. The words he says vaguely sound town. But how they're done, how they're said, simply...doesn't. I really really wish there was a better way for me to describe the mechanic between AP and I, the dynamic we've had. But this is the best I've got. His posting has been sketchy, with all of it essentially...well, not being the strong AP I know. The best word I can think of to describe it is that it feels halfhearted, rather than sincere, but even this doesn't convey the message.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)

Best word I can think of to describe them is nulltown. Maybe just fulltown, but I dunno.

I really didn't like their earlier posting; it did feel fairly bad, and their posting has seemed to be consistently buddying. It's like...it's like I expect more out of a town-F16, if that makes sense, and that I simply wasn't seeing it. And that initial bias is still there, now, holding me back from a proper townread, since there's still that lingering doubt that, maybe, they actually are scum.

...But they're a lot like a much weaker Titan reads-wise. In that when I ask myself what my read on them is, my first instinct is instantly, "Town." And when I ask myself if I'm really sure, I get an "I guess?" response back. I can see the town. Do I believe it? I kinda want to. Sorta actually do. But I don't think I fully can. It just feels like something's not entirely right, I guess.

Soyeah, nulltown.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:11 Lord Business

Admittedly, my read here is stale, so he's been knocked down a peg or two. But I really liked him at the beginning of the game, and unlike players I've had doubts about, I've never really seen anything making me doubt Lord Business was actually town. Other than his slight drop in overall presence, that is.

So decently strong town, probably around ffery level. (Maybe a bit above, maybe a bit below.) I'll maybe get back to you on this one later.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)

Not a strong scumread, but a scumread. Basically, their stances this game have been fairly off, as has their reasoning and their interactions, and how people interact with them. I should have more to say, but that's really all I can think of.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

Admittedly, their weaker presence in the thread is reason to be concerned, but I really think they're town. I recently came from a game where notscience's lack of presence was used against him, and he was town. So it does happen. And he did establish himself early-on as fairly strongly town. So I'm holding onto that. I've liked them overall, even if I'd prefer them be here more, so decently strong town, above ffery.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:14 Cupcake Panda

Okay, at this stage, is probably town anyway, but bluntly, is acting anti-town and will likely continue to do so throughout the whole game as honorary-scum.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:15 PeregrineV

I'll have to get back on you on this one. Overall feeling at the moment is mehtown, but I need to iso him. More content from PV would be appreciated, though.

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:16 Clyton
17 Mac

I'm lumping them together, 'cause why not. Both are townreads. The only difference is in strength.

While Clyton's posting has that robotic voice, the content contained within is insanely town. His oddities can be explained as being unfamiliar with site meta, but said oddities are played in such a way that I have a tremendously difficult time imagining that they come from a scum-him. Furthermore, if he was scum, I'd expect some sort of hint as to him being more familiar with our meta than he ought to be. Yet none exists. Rock-solid town, no, but a very strong townread, yes.

Mac's basically right up there at Titan levels of town. His posting's simply town; it's pretty dang obvious. If there's anyone here who have a townread on Mac, maybe I'll be bothered to explain. But basically...his posting is town. It's really obvious.




I'll compile all these later, and make a readslist out of them. Shouldn't be that hard to piece it together, though, if you're impatient.

I felt DV's progression of suspicion on Rancid felt incredibly town. In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165. A lot of the reasoning he provided there also made a ton of sense considering Rancid's reaction of wanting to gladiate BRO and Desp wasn't the strongest. I also liked the additional criticism of Nati's outburst since was misdirected. Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be. Regardless of whether you actually agree with DV's reasons, I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch). I like the reasons DV provided for his vote, I like the timing and I liked the forcefulness with which he presented his case.

Take a look at how he presents his scumreads in his other town and scum games.

SCUM:
NY160B: Welcome to Castle Zar: The timing of his Snowstorm scumread in Post 555 felt off and ill-timed, pushing on reasons that he never commented on before and having no real read-progression. He also wasn't very ostentatious or attention grabbing with the way he pushed the read and it felt a lot more weak and his heart really wasn't in it.

/in-vitational12: His scumread on Penguin who was a likely lynch in Post 334 again came across as sleazy and opportunistic and not at all like he genuinely believed the reasons behind it. It was also somewhat nebulous and the reasons he provided were weak and not concrete at all.

TOWN:
Mini 1472: You can see that the way DV asserts himself is completely different from his scumgames. The reasoning he provides for his push on PurpleLobsta here in Post 249 and the way he presented it was much more solid than any of his scumgames and gives the impression that he genuinely believed what he was saying. His continued push in his later posts also had the same solid backing and confident reasoning and he isn't afraid to put himself in the limelight.

Song Contest Upick: Note in particular his read on T-Bone and it comes across as very natural and the push is strong and the language he uses in Post 1699 feels like he isn't holding anything back. This differs from the often stilted tone in his scumgames where the fact that he doesn't really believe in his reads becomes evident.

Overall, I like the content that the Fox and the Hound have provided. Their positions are relatable and understandable, I can follow most of their reasoning, and the way DV pushes his reads feels a lot more like his pushes as town than scum.

~ F-16

In post 1630, Kagura wrote:

In post 1629, AngryPidgeon wrote:Yaaa, mastin is either scum or channeling House Party mastin this game. I suspect the latter, but either way.

Either way what?
Was he town in house party?

-b

Well it was sorta like Xenosaga mastin. I'll be your rock though.

In post 1683, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 2, Yulia Jue wrote:11 Lord Business

Admittedly, my read here is stale, so he's been knocked down a peg or two. But I really liked him at the beginning of the game, and unlike players I've had doubts about, I've never really seen anything making me doubt Lord Business was actually town. Other than his slight drop in overall presence, that is.

So decently strong town, probably around ffery level. (Maybe a bit above, maybe a bit below.) I'll maybe get back to you on this one later.

I do apologise for not keeping up with this game. I have a busy RL period at the moment, and I don't want to be posting stuff I'm making up from barely reading. So I can only be honest and prod dodge until I can give this game the time it needs for me to catch up.

Otherwise I'm going to end up sheeping popular opinion and that hasn't been something I intended to do at all so far.

In post 1520, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 1516, Just Sheep Us wrote:So, ffery, given your current read-state, how to you view the narrative of mastin/Titan/RDB/CF/FoxHound/AP/myself based on your reads (i.e., who's doing what in terms of actions?)

hellifino

I'm refining reads on the basis of the interactions, but I don't have an overarching narrative about it. Not yet, anyway.

I've gone back and forth a little with you guys and had you in my scumpile at one point, but have more of a townfeel now that you're interacting.

:/

Why does nobody scum hunt the way I do

In post 1527, MastinSSK wrote:And this game, he's doing the same thing. There are a fair number of people townreading him, a LOT from meta, because that's what he wants them to see. Instead of him actually being town, he's made himself look like town. That's basically the main reason AP's scum, too, because AP's done the same damn thing. Yes. They look good, because they put effort into looking good. No, they aren't actually good. Because that wasn't their goal. They aren't aiming to be town; they're aiming to do a good job of looking town. That's my read of them, of their posting, of their situation.

That's not what it is.

1) A fair number of people are scum reading him. I think I'm in the minority saying "this looks like town AP to me"

2) The meta points are null more than anything else; AP's too good and too erratic of a player to let meta be usable against him. It's like you're not reading what I've posted at all about why AP's town.

Also, AP, remember that thing I said about why mastin was scum in AG because of how he read Ghostlin in Anything Goes?

This like an inversion of that thought process (i.e., she's trying to refute the town read without understanding the trajectory on it, and the misunderstanding of why the town read exists is showing)

she*

In post 1530, AngryPidgeon wrote:I can answer this a little better now that that damn 7p micro is over. I've only really been in 2 games with bro where I was town and not hydra with him. In street racers I waffled on him and kept wanting to scum read him incorrectly. He mostly brushed me off and we ultimately did push good lunches when I stopped getting dumb leverls of paranoid. He actually did do protown things there even if I found his conclusions wonky.

7p game I was disappointed in his lack of scum hunting tbh. Felt he was largely apathetic and I pushed him over it and he claimed conformable role and got me counter lynched for pushing him lololol. So I got trolled. Town was being dumb there though. FuDuzn was obv scum all game anyhow but was a shit lynch until survivor died. So meh.

Anyhow I don't think I'm a huge motivator for town bro and I don't think I have a good track of reading him. OK at best. I'm leaning scum I guess so he's probably actually town. #facepalm

You forgot the part where in Street Car Racers I wasn't really trying until you replaced in.

Still never read those 40 pages of day 1 where everyone derped around the Hannibal lynch.

And 2014 mafia was me being confused the entire time b/c even after that game I still don't know how to hunt for solo-scum.

In post 1531, MastinSSK wrote:AP is not the type of scum player to make an intricate plan. He's impulsive, living in the now, for the most part. His best ideas as scum are done not well in advance, but at most with one night of planning before-hand. AP will have a map on what to do immediately, but his long-term plans are incredibly vague. You'd be lucky to see a kill/lynch map laid out from him, even given daytalk, since that's simply not his style. It's one of the main areas that he differs from me as a player. The drive behind AP's posting is to survive, not to lynch scum.

I think the "trying to survive, not lynch scum" scum tell works only on me, because most players care about getting mislynched.

In post 1533, AngryPidgeon wrote:Welp, I dunno what to say about the hydra dissonance part of this, but your reason for townreading me makes complete sense. That is something that is distinctly lacking from my scumgame rather consistently. Which is part of why mastin calling my game here a lot like Antihero mafia was just flatout baffling. What did you think about mastin claiming that his role is deeper + rly useful beyond the vote thing?

Role-posturing's a null-tell; I've seen people do it as both alignments, and the theory behind doing it as either alignment is relatively sound. I'm not reading too much into it at this point.

In post 1546, Mac wrote:Problem with this group.

LURK LURK LURK LURK LURK LURK

Pv's not even town, GiF still has a chance of salvation but I wish for more. I'm still on the fence with your hydra.

How many times have lurkers been town?

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists.