Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:23 am**

In post 1614, Pine wrote:Yeah. Town wins, we’re just hashing out individual wincons

Allow me to clarify my intentions with the post I made at the end of the last Day. I decided that ARO, having knowingly broken the rules by playing against wincon (a clear scumclaim and providing significant evidence that they were scum with the hammer and other comments), potentially merited a modkill.

I preferred the option of accelerating the game to its end instead of letting it play out because of the completely compromised nature of the game state and frustration of many of the players, in particular ARO. As I heavily implied in the first post, you can consider this functionally a

town win by modkill

-- however, I thought that some people would want to continue playing to achieve their wincons. So this is a middle-ground solution in which people can choose to continue playing if they want.

I hope all of you can understand my position here.

vote count 3.3

Acute Right Obtuse

(4): Skygazer, Elements, gobbledygook, skitter30

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Channel Fireball

Not Voting

(5): Pine, Menalque, Baezu Leaf, Dr Easy Bake, Acute Right Obtuse

(expired on 2019-08-29 07:15:00)

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:31 am**

<3 EP

Not your fault

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:53 am**

You on pine?

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:34 am**

I am now.

I’ll check every 3-5 minutes for the next half hour

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:00 am**

VOTE: ARO

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:19 am**

VOTE: ARO

Lyncher win

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:22 am**

In post 1680, Pine wrote:VOTE: ARO

Lyncher win

J/K

Wincon is as stated

GG all. Spiritual win for all of Town in my book.

Be it here known that I wish to inter the Crown Jewel in the tomb of my brother, PenguinPower, akin to the honors given to Thorin Oakenshield, laid to rest with the Arkenstone of Thrane

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:23 am**

Thrain*

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:42 am**

I actually liked this game very much

Very sorry for chennisden...he’s a great player but he just got tilted

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:49 am**

In post 1683, Baezu wrote:I actually liked this game very much

Very sorry for chennisden...he’s a great player but he just got tilted

Frankly, that’s not a valid excuse.

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:29 am**

vote count 3.4

Acute Right Obtuse

(6): Skygazer, Elements, gobbledygook, skitter30, Baezu Leaf, Pine

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Channel Fireball

Not Voting

(3): Menalque, Dr Easy Bake, Acute Right Obtuse

Acute Right Obtuse died D3. They were a

Mafia Whisperer.

Posted: **Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:32 am**

ENDGAME HAS BEEN REACHED.

THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS ARE TOWN AND HAVE FULFILLED THEIR FACTIONAL WINCON:

Pine
skitter30
Skygazer
Menalque
Elements
Baezu Leaf
Dr Easy Bake
gobbledygook
Channel Fireball

THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS ARE TOWN AND HAVE FULFILLED THEIR FACTIONAL WINCON POSTHUMOUSLY:

PenguinPower

THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS ARE SCUM AND HAVE FAILED TO FULFILL THEIR FACTIONAL WINCON:

cyrus62
123456789
Acute Right Obtuse

If you have an Endgame action, you must submit it within (expired on 2019-08-18 12:32:00).\
If everyone with an Endgame action votes for accelerated night, the game will end.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:23 pm**

PINE

, the Town Bandit Sentry, holds the crown jewel and wins the game.

SKYGAZER

, the Town False Whisperer, deceives the prophet and wins the game.

MENALQUE

, the Town Bodyguard, finds the bandits and wins the game.

DR EASY BAKE

, the Town Bodyguard, finds the bandits and wins the game.

ELEMENTS

, the Town Bodyguard, finds the bandits and wins the game.

BAEZU LEAF

, the Town Priest, protects the sanctity and wins the game.

GOBBLEDYGOOK

, the Town Outlaw, remains at large and wins the game.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:24 pm**

Spoiler:

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Bandit Sentry

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Bandit's Den

: You have access to a neighborhood of the Bandits. You know that all the Bandits have the modifier

Highway Robbery.

Night Watch

: Once during the game, you can choose another target during the night. You will be informed of anyone who visited this target.

Highway Robbery

: You know that [NAME] is the empress, who at the start of the game holds the crown jewel. The holder of the crown jewel can only be killed by lynch, and the crown jewel transfers to any person who places the hammer vote. You know that the other bandits also have this modifier.

You must have held the crown jewel at some point to win.

Your neighborhood is here. [LINK] The members of the bandits are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Bandit Guard

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Bandit's Den

: You have access to a neighborhood of the Bandits. You know that all the Bandits have the modifier

Highway Robbery.

Interrogate

: Once during the game, you can choose another target during the night. You will simultaneously protect this target from a kill and prevent this target from taking any night actions.

Highway Robbery

: You know that [NAME] is the empress, who at the start of the game holds the crown jewel. The holder of the crown jewel can only be killed by lynch, and the crown jewel transfers to any person who places the hammer vote. You know that the other bandits also have this modifier.

You must have held the crown jewel at some point to win.

Your neighborhood is here. [LINK] The members of the bandits are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Bounty Hunter

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

On the Hunt

: Every night, you may choose a target to investigate. You will learn this person's role name, but not this person's alignment. You know that one person in the game has the role of Outlaw and has an activated power that will make their role and alignment public.

You must either shoot this person or be on this person's lynching wagon to win.

Go for the Kill

: Once during the game, you may choose a target to shoot. You may do this on a night you investigate.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Outlaw

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Bribe the Magistrate

: Once during the game, you may choose to activate this power. Your role and alignment will become public, but your modifiers will not be revealed.

Make It Out Alive

:

You must survive to endgame to win.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Royal Bodyguard

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Art of Combat

: At the start of the game, choose one:

Offensive Stance

- Once during the game, you may choose a target to investigate, living or dead. You will be informed about what this person needs to do to achieve their role's wincon.

Defensive Stance

- If someone targets you with a power during the night, you will be informed and be able to use this power at any point during the following day. Alternatively, you may choose a target during the day, and that power will be given to them for use on the following night.

Catch the Bandits

: You know that there are three bandits working together in the game. If you exit the game (either when you are killed, lynched, or the end of the game is reached), you must submit your guesses for the identities of the three bandits.

You must be entirely correct to win.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Royal Bodyguard

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Art of Combat

: At the start of the game, choose one:

Offensive Stance

- Once during the game, you may choose a target to investigate, living or dead. You will be informed about what this person needs to do to achieve their role's wincon.

Defensive Stance

- If someone targets you with a power during the night, you will be informed and be able to use this power at any point during the following day. Alternatively, you may choose a target during the day, and that power will be given to them for use on the following night.

Catch the Bandits

: You know that there are three bandits working together in the game. If you exit the game (either when you are killed, lynched, or the end of the game is reached), you must submit your guesses for the identities of the three bandits.

You must be entirely correct to win.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Royal Bodyguard

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Art of Combat

: At the start of the game, choose one:

Offensive Stance

- Once during the game, you may choose a target to investigate, living or dead. You will be informed about what this person needs to do to achieve their role's wincon.

Defensive Stance

- If someone targets you with a power during the night, you will be informed and be able to use this power at any point during the following day. Alternatively, you may choose a target during the day, and that power will be given to them for use on the following night.

Catch the Bandits

: You know that there are three bandits working together in the game. If you exit the game (either when you are killed, lynched, or the end of the game is reached), you must submit your guesses for the identities of the three bandits.

You must be entirely correct to win.

You are a

Town Prophet

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Divine Word

: You know that in this game are the Whisperer and the False Whisperer. The False Whisperer will flip as the Whisperer. These two people will PM me a message every night, which you will receive during the following day, consistently marked as "WHISPERER 1" and "WHISPERER 2". Before the day ends, you may PM me two messages for each of the whisperers and I will send your messages to the respective person at day's end.

Search for Truth

:

You must tell me the username of the true Whisperer at endgame to win.

You do not have to be alive.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Priest

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Receive Confession

: Every night, you may choose a target to investigate. You will learn this person's role name, but not this person's alignment. You may not do this on a night you protect. You know that one person in the game has the role of Prophet.

Either you or The Prophet must survive to endgame for you to win.

Provide Sanctuary

: Once during the game, you may choose a target to protect. You may not do this on a night you investigate.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Town Whisperer

. You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

There is no Truth in Death

: Your role name is the Whisperer. You will flip as such. Your actual role is the False Whisperer.

Prophetic Whisper

: You know that in this game are the Prophet and the true Whisperer. Every night, you must PM me a message. This will be sent to the Prophet. You will receive their response at the end of the following day.

Mislead the Searcher

: At the start of each day, you will also see the message that the true Whisperer sent to the Prophet the previous night. At the end of the game, the Prophet will attempt to divine the identity of the true Whisperer (this will involvecorrectly guessing their username).

The Prophet must be incorrect for you to win.

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Mafia Bandit

. You are aligned with the Mafia. You win when mafia compose a majority of the players (or when nothing can prevent this), and there is at least one member of the mafia alive.

Bandit's Den

: You have access to a neighborhood of the Bandits. You know that all the Bandits have the modifier

Highway Robbery.

Highway Robbery

: You know that [NAME] is the empress, who at the start of the game holds the crown jewel. The holder of the crown jewel can only be killed by lynch, and the crown jewel transfers to any person who places the hammer vote. You know that the other bandits also have this modifier.

You must have held the crown jewel at some point to win.

Special Connections

: The Empress is a member of the mafia and does not know that you are a bandit. Role PMs will not be given in your mafia topic. I will not respond to any requests by your team members to post role PMs in your mafia topic. If and only if your team members post role PMs in your mafia topic, you are allowed to post a fake role PM as well.

Criminal Conspiracy

: As a member of the mafia, you have access to factional nightkills. Each member of your team can perform one nightkill, which must conform to the order detailed in your mafia topic. You may also choose not to kill on a certain night.

Your neighborhood is here. [LINK] The members of the bandits are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].
Your mafia topic is here. [LINK] The members of the mafia are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Mafia Whisperer

. You are aligned with the Mafia. You win when mafia compose a majority of the players (or when nothing can prevent this), and there is at least one member of the mafia alive.

Prophetic Whisper

: You know that in this game are the Prophet and the False Whisperer. Every night, you must PM me a message. This will be sent to the Prophet. You will receive their response at the end of the following day.

Lead the Searcher

: At the end of the game, the Prophet will attempt to divine the identity of the true Whisperer.

The Prophet must correctly identify you to win.

Criminal Conspiracy

: As a member of the mafia, you have access to factional nightkills. Each member of your team can perform one nightkill, which must conform to the order detailed in your mafia topic. You may also choose not to kill on a certain night.

Your mafia topic is here. [LINK] The members of the mafia are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a

Mafia Empress

. You are aligned with the Mafia. You win when mafia compose a majority of the players (or when nothing can prevent this), and there is at least one member of the mafia alive.

Protect the Throne

: You can only be killed by lynch.

You must reach Day 4 or endgame to win.

Popularity of the Throne

: Your high approval means that it takes two more votes to lynch you. However, if you reach the normal voting threshold and survive to tell the tale, this modifier will go down to one more vote starting the next day. Upon reaching the normal voting threshold again this modifier will disappear.

Court Whispers

: Your enemies may be closer than you expect. Trust no one.

Criminal Conspiracy

: As a member of the mafia, you have access to factional nightkills. Each member of your team can perform one nightkill, which must conform to the order detailed in your mafia topic. You may also choose not to kill on a certain night.

Your mafia topic is here. [LINK] The members of the mafia are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

topics will be released in 48 hours.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:25 pm**

In post 54, Errantparabola wrote:
some thoughts on the bounty hunter

- the reason that i highlighted kill OR lynch as a wincon is because i believed there was a non-negligible speedwagon strategy, which i think is harder than the bandit strategy but not exceptionally harder (and the bounty hunter has more tools before this even becomes an option). the reason for this is that the IC is
heavily
disincentivized from activating the power as the role PM signals to the IC that going public will severely hinder their wincon. so the IC might wait until L-1, for example.

- actually i think this can be inferred from BOTH role PMs. this kill or lynch dichotomy is the delicate balance i was hoping would be struck -- the bounty hunter has a massive advantage with the vig shot, the outlaw has a massive advantage without the vig shot. of course, the outlaw is not remotely in danger now that bounty hunter claimed the details of their role and decided not to play. And the ARO red herring was something i had also not anticipated. maybe i should have accounted for that in some way?

- in retrospect the bounty hunter is absolutely an unfairly difficult role. in retrospect if i had to give a balance estimate... maybe like, 50 / 40 / 10, or perhaps 47.5 / 37.5 / 15 for outlaw / hunter / no one winning.

- i dont think i gave enough weight to unpredictability as a balance factor. ultimately i think this was my biggest design mistake. i did consider this (the bodyguards don't have to deal with unpredictability, so i made it so they have to outlive the bandits). In any case, imo the oversight for me here is actually something I don't think CF brought up: what if the outlaw was killed by someone else?

- of course, that didn't come up in this game but i absolutely should have considered it anyway. CF is rightfully frustrated but based on their conduct i dont believe i have too much sympathy for them right now.

thoughts on the scum

- also, the scum are calling out the setup as the reason they're fucked which is... maybe true? the setup doesn't account for a scum bandit outright claiming that they are scum to two people who would clearly benefit supremely from killing them and almost guaranteeing their loss. this is when i think the setup cracked in two -- was this an oversight on my part? its really up to you to decide. i dont think it was a possibility i would have EVER considered as remotely likely. personally i feel like scum suiciding is a ridiculous fringe case that just so happened to play out in the hands of a newer player.

- i think the scum is swingy (1, because of the nightkill limit, and 2, because of the empress) and it swung HARD against their favor this time on the nightkill side. there were steps taken to mitigate this empress-side with bulletproof and double loved, which makes the empress extremely hard to lynch for at least a couple days. i think ultimately i have no regrets about the empress design.

thoughts on the bandits

- a big reason why i was fine with the bandit "ass wincon" being harder than others (use the prophet-whisperer dynamic as a comparison point) is because the bandit wincon is not mutually exclusive. you can lynch the empress after d4 OR you can lynch the empress early and try to share the win with as many bandits as possible. on the other hand, say the prophet guesses wrong -- then people win and people lose and that's an inevitable outcome.

- in fact the bandit "win chance" is kind of at the target for me. 50% chance to fulfill personal wincon was the very rough goal that i measured roles against and i do think that it is fair to say that 2 people out of the 4 in this group fulfilling their personal wincon is not a stretch -- i am confident that probabilistically no fewer than 1.5 people win.

- on that note. bodyguards basically autowin. this was another huge oversight. i hadn't taken into account the high likelihood of a massclaim in response to a confusing setup. i thought the lyncher-wincon was enough of a disincentive for bandits to out themselves. i thought that bodyguards having to guess when they die as opposed to at endgame was enough of a balancing factor but i think this role is too waaaay strong still (see my 'unpredictability' error). i'm not too sad about this one either because again, bandits/bodyguards don't have a mutually exclusive dynamic like the others do.

thoughts on the prophet

- weirdly enough, the dynamic that's being complained the least about is the one i'm the least happy with. by far. even though it's like, fair by design -- i think skitter's assumption that the false whisperer is scum is maybe a mistake in resolving ambiguity in my part. skitter's wincon is that she has to guess who is who at the end of the game.

- i hoped that this was enough of a signal that the whisperer dynamic is sort of NAI. and i hope that skitter realizing that the faction win resolves before the guessing happens will make her come to this realization. if i could do this part again, i'd make it random between the two whisperers which one the real one is and explicitly tell this to the prophet. i wanted this to be a mafia-game-inside-a-mafia-game situation instead of a setup spec one.

- as i said i hoped that this would sort of be a 3p lylo situation, but with the extremely limited communication i'm fairly worried that there's not enough strategy to be had there. i tried to mitigate this by allowing the whisperer to receive messages after death (See: why some people can't be added to the dead thread) i also tried to insert some psychological differences into the roles (the main one being the "informed" vs "uninformed" classic mafia dynamic as the false whisperer can see the true whisperer's messages) but i think ultimately, this should probably have been made a hood at least.

thoughts i made a while ago -- they may not be relevant now, i dont remember exactly when this was made.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:29 pm**

srry skitter

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:34 pm**

I was p sure sky was fake and i figured if she wasnt i'd prefer her to win over giving chenn the alt wincon so i just picked her. I was p sure i was giving her the win over myself but i didnt want aro to have it so
(I know he factionally lost already)

Once ircher's role was scum it kinda made sense for sky to be town and fake, i got that you were going for a mini-lylo type thing

I think knowing who thr whisperers were to begin with (like in a hood, like you said) would have been nice

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:34 pm**

Oh pedit

Nah it's fine, i knew what i was doing

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:35 pm**

"Based on their conduct?" what are you talking about?

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:35 pm**

Also why did you not just call the game when it was beyond compromised?

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:36 pm**

In post 1345, skitter30 wrote:to identify the true whisperer {ie one of sky / aro}

i think sky is fake and possibly scum. or scum and possibly fake, idk

I was p sure you were either fake or scum or both

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:39 pm**

i was rlly tired when i sent that first message and went back and was like fck that's the scummiest message of all time tbh

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:41 pm**

The answer to your first question: You decided to not play the game and instead start complaining about the setup although I personally believe I signaled to you adequately that you had another possible way to win.

The answer to your second question: My line of thought for cyrus outing the scum was that he had a reason to do so, and I don't think I had probable cause to act on that. When chennis claimed scum my inclination was to call it, which I think I basically did.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:42 pm**

In post 1696, Skygazer wrote:i was rlly tired when i sent that first message and went back and was like fck that's the scummiest message of all time tbh

Yes, it was lol

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:43 pm**

Although I will say I wrote that part basically when you were at the height of your frustration, and my response to that was to be frustrated in turn. See the post after that. I've moved past my frustration now, but you are free to complain and/or boycott my future games if you still believe I've been excessively unfair to you.

Mafiascum.net

mini 2093, the search - an interminable period of darkness.