Mini 2127 - Fairly Special [Game Over]

[TemporalLich]

Role Mason grabbed role but not alignment, I rejected the Alignment Mason in the design phase of the setup creation which could grab alignment but not role for fear it was too powerful (in hindsight, that was a terrible idea).

As for the flavor stuff, I wanted a type of IC that needed to crumb to reveal. That didn't work in practice.

[EspressoPatronum]

I was expecting eyestott to be an IC in power

Ah, I see.

As mastina posted above + we mentioned in game, the role flavourer could have been town or scum. Role =/= alignment, especially in role madness.

[...]
As for the flavor stuff, I wanted a type of IC that needed to crumb to reveal. That didn't work in practice.

Good to know for next time.

[chkflip]

Lich, I wouldn't take this too personally. You tried something you thought was fun -- I clearly felt the same way -- and it didn't get raves from all sides. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

[mastina]

Granted--I believe that the town pegging the role flavorer and the moon howler as town roles was something that was likely to happen more often than not, and to be fair,

did

happen.

But it wasn't guaranteed to have happened (as the suspicion on eyestott post-claim showed). And my point still stands. The town might've made a misplay this game--but it was a misplay they had no way of realistically anticipating would end the game. There was little warning of a premature lylo, so the town had no way of realistically knowing that they were making a misplay, and even

without

a misplay, even with picture-perfect townplay where the town does everything right, again, they can still lose the game in a situation no town would expect to have lost.

And it requires that the scum make sub-optimal choices and the town makes optimal ones, every step of the way. Town make a single misstep, or scum make a single unstoppable correct move, and the town just...never wins this game.

[Bingle]

I'm pretty excited that I proved my ability to replace into a slot and sheep my mason partner this game.

Thanks for the game, TL. I enjoyed what little I was there for.

[mastina]

Role Mason grabbed role but not alignment, I rejected the Alignment Mason in the design phase of the setup creation which could grab alignment but not role for fear it was too powerful (in hindsight, that was a terrible idea).

Oh, well in that case:
Even more absurdly scumsided.

Because even if the town mason was a fully full alignment cop--not one-shot, not a rolecop that doesn't get alignments.

Town still isn't too strong.

If the town mason were a fully full alignment cop, ungated in shots, ungated in power, then the town might have a chance at winning this game. I'd rate it as maybe even 45%!

As-is, though, town had less than a 10% chance at winning.

This game was pretty much the best-case scenario for the town where the town used their roles just about as well as they possibly could have--I ate an early N1 nightkill; Eve managed to eat a nightkill after lynching a scum; eyestott did become fairly obviously town. The town did almost everything right, and still lost.

Yes, the town did mislynch three times, and critically one of those times was a key important town PR to their chances of winning, so the town didn't play absolutely picture-perfect. But the town still used their roles almost to the maximum, with many overperforming the expectations of those roles, and yet even overperforming, couldn't get a win.

[mastina]

Thanks for the game, TL. I enjoyed what little I was there for.

Oh, the game was absurdly fun, of course.

It just wasn't in any way remotely balanced.

The roles were cool, inventive, neat, and the game was a blast.
It just wasn't even remotely balanced and the way the town lost due to a mechanic that they had no reason to believe was in place, feels like it cheapens the game.

[TemporalLich]

If I added an ungated Alignement Cop you'd have a Follow The Cop scenario... except even worse as the only role that can defuse it is the Astral Demon

[TemporalLich]

Thanks for playing this strange role madness game

[Bingle]

?

Follow the cop is adequately solved by a strongman kill. Also Rolecop. Also Roleblocker.

Scum one shot Vig (which IS the correct allegory for your treestumper) is functionally a little more than an extra mafia member. It reduces the number of mislynches town has by one and is a role that can reasonably be assumed to be town. Don't take mastina's criticisms as an attack here, take them as advice on how to balance your games better in the future. Everyone fucks up game balance on occasion. You don't think of something or you make an assumption that doesn't pan out and it bites you. I've done it. Mastina's done it. Hell, I'd argue it's impossible to be a truly great mod without ever having made a mistake. Just dust yourself off and try not to make the same mistake next time, and your players will by and large forgive you.

[gobbledygook]

So that was a game that was totally not balanced. And also should not have been called when it was.

But I am glad it’s over.

[gobbledygook]

I was worried that Churros was scum with that OP ability which is why I did not act the last few nights. I guess thinking about it, the game would have entered happily ever after. But uh yeah, Churros should not have had that role.

[gobbledygook]

Beam Splitter sounds like a cool OP rule, but what roles in the game actually benefit from this? The town 1x neighborizer getting a larger neighborhood? Not any benefit. The chillbreather getting an extra victim? Can cause mafia to instantly endgame the town. Cause the inspector to get a second worthless result because the beam splitter would always cause the second result to trigger? Send mail to a second person? Cause the mafia to rolecop two people instead of one? If the astral demon doesn't count as a factional action, duplicate the astral demon kill?

It is a cool role, but in this game it was useless.

[Churros]

Gobble, we never targeted you because I couldn't wrap my head about the possibility of we being able to get 2 NKs + treestump in a single night. It could end this even faster prematurely.

I was like "there's gotta to be a 22 catch there".

[gobbledygook]

Gobble, we never targeted you because I couldn't wrap my head about the possibility of we being able to get 2 NKs + treestump in a single night. It could end this even faster prematurely.

I was like "there's gotta to be a 22 catch there".

Nope. Just not at all balanced.

[gobbledygook]

Gg!

[pisskop]

Gobbles, I need you to stop SRing me all the time.

[Churros]

I thought about being noble and missing one NK to balance this out for town but I'm far too unenthusiastic on playing scum nowadays to give it a go.

[gobbledygook]

I thought about being noble and missing one NK to balance this out for town but I'm far too unenthusiastic on playing scum nowadays to give it a go.

Haha, nah, don’t pass up on the chance for a free scum win!

[gobbledygook]

Gobbles, I need you to stop SRing me all the time.

Stop being scum!

I dunno dude. You’re one of the unholy three. I don’t know what you all did to the universe but it sure does love giving you scum roles.

[pisskop]

lol

[Churros]

I thought about being noble and missing one NK to balance this out for town but I'm far too unenthusiastic on playing scum nowadays to give it a go.

Haha, nah, don’t pass up on the chance for a free scum win!

I kinda think we could manage to win today by NK'ing Titus and a LyLo with Me/Ali/Gobble/Ep/Eye, but that would require more effort in a game I had been waiting for almost a month to end.

[mastina]

?
Follow the cop is adequately solved by a strongman kill. Also Rolecop. Also Roleblocker.

And also the treestumper. Even if you can't treestump the cop due to the rolestopper (and that's an 'if'; you most likely

could

which prevents them from investigating--heck, because the treestump doesn't

kill

, the scum treestumper could argue that their targeting of the cop is to keep them alive!), you can treestump the rolestopper and then, bam! No protection for the cop at all.

When scum have three methods to break follow-the-cop, with a rolecop to help aid said three actions break it even faster, follow the cop is not exactly going to break the game in favor of the town.

[Titus]

Yeah, didn't help the mod outright stated 2 scum not 3 so none of the town thought it was anywhere near lylo.

[Titus]

Factional Abilities:
• You are a member of the Mafia, along with [redacted].

This strongly implies only 2 scum in the game, and it is what I based my VCA on.