Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[Almost50]

Sharing is Caring D2 VC #5

HitAlt (3): ruru, the worst, Mathdino,
the worst (1): BlackStar,
pinturicchio (1): ofrhz,

Not Voting: HeWhoSwims, HitAlt, Zoronos, pinturicchio, davesaz,

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

(expired on 2018-06-21 21:15:00)

Did I just take a PAGETOP???

[ruru]

ofrhz, thoughts on HA?

[ofrhz]

I still have reservations about voting for him because he and jjh were on the same dead wagon for most of D1

I need to read his ISO because I don’t understand why town or scum would tunnel onto one person like this. But his recent posts read like dejected town. He’s not really fighting against his lynch, which would make sense as town because he doesn’t seem to have any other concrete scumreads to redirect town to

Basically if I had to pick a side, I think he’s probably town

[Zoronos]

I am struggling to piece together the precise logic, and it does rely on the assumption that my TR's are correct, but my inclination is that sorting math is key to unraveling things unless we live in crazy upside down bus land.

[Zoronos]

Nevermind, the logic has a hole. Disregard.

[ruru]

Honestly I think he's like complaining about bayesian trust tells in the pt levels of likely to be town

I still have reservations about voting for him because he and jjh were on the same dead wagon for most of D1

Remember the eod1 vc in 1859?

[Zoronos]

Parse-failure.
Is that 'Yeah, math is likely town' or 'No, math is likely scum' ?

[ofrhz]

Honestly I think he's like complaining about bayesian trust tells in the pt levels of likely to be town

I still have reservations about voting for him because he and jjh were on the same dead wagon for most of D1

Remember the eod1 vc in 1859?

You mean you think he’s scum?

I remember you and pin were both offwagon there. But you guys weren’t voting for the same wagon for like 80% of D1, you know?

[ofrhz]

Oh and we mislynched town D1 there so not sure how comparable that is

[Mathdino]

fucking lol

can't get me on this one

"a PR didn't die last night and i'm not shit at NKs" is not a trust tell, it's burden of proficiency

@Zor

: realistically, you're not likely to get your pretty case with a bow that you seem to want from me on every read
i'm as active as i am and i've spent more time this game reading than writing, am unlikely to have much time for writing this week

you don't have the right to shit on how i choose to express my reads when you're literally not voting/pushing anyone

there are 5 people not voting right now and this is an unacceptable gamestate
i'm not here to solve the game for you
there's been significantly more asked of me this game than any other player

you've actively shut out some of my best arguments as well so i'm not really inclined to bend over backwards to fit your style. i can lynch my lynchpool without you in particular

play the game please, don't act like "oh this game is easy if we could just sort math but

he's just not giving me enough to do so

"

[Mathdino]

tl;dr i openly prefer town and try to replace into townslots on my main
because why would i voluntarily play scum when i have the sorting ability to avoid it

so i replaced into ruru's scumgame in the newbie queue and was like "yo i'm town literally by virtue of being here"

ruru was displeased so she NK'd me and there was some behind the scenes drama

ruru is saying i'm essentially pulling a similar argument here

1. I have a 100% record of perfectly shooting PRs whenever I'm scum (this extends back to pre-hiatus). I don't believe in shooting VTs
2. Scum didn't out the cop when outing the cop is clearly optimal
3. A VT died last night. A VT playing her VT meta, no less.

Therefore I'm either town or throwing away my ability to use this argument specifically to use the WIFOM against you this game.

[ofrhz]

Honestly I think he's like complaining about bayesian trust tells in the pt levels of likely to be town

I still have reservations about voting for him because he and jjh were on the same dead wagon for most of D1

Remember the eod1 vc in 1859?

Were you talking about math or HitAlt in your first sentence? I assumed you were talking about HitAlt when I responded in 1707

[pinturicchio]

you don't have the right to shit on how i choose to express my reads when you're literally not voting/pushing anyone

This.

Also, I realized that sorting Math at this point of the game is useless; if he's still alive at LyLo or 1 day before LyLo, either he's scum because of BoP or he solves the game as town. My Tit for Tat's scumteam decided to let him alive 'cause he was having bad reads and they could push him because of that, and the backfire was tremendous.

That being said, I think Math is town.

[ofrhz]

might be re-reconsidering Hit
maybe
just maybe

Where are you at with this rn

[ofrhz]

I’m tempted to townbin math

That would mean a lot of my reads are probably wrong though

[ruru]

Were you talking about math or HitAlt in your first sentence? I assumed you were talking about HitAlt when I responded in 1707

I was talking about md being town to zoro

I remember you and pin were both offwagon there. But you guys weren’t voting for the same wagon for like 80% of D1, you know?

Hmm so is your idea that they would be doing something else because the wagon doesn't have enough interest?

I feel like there was plenty of interest and tw plausibly could have been lynched (and it would look less scummy than, say, opportunistically jumping on the town.you wagon)

Like what else would they be doing other than bussing jjh who they probably are reluctant to bus at a convincingly early time due to lack of daychat + him being framer

I feel like it's beneficial for scum to play that way if tw is town, and if that's true, then it's basically "too scummy to be scum"

[ruru]

"a PR didn't die last night and i'm not shit at NKs" is not a trust tell, it's burden of proficiency

Yeah I actually wouldn't be complaining about this to the mod

I

would

be complaining in the pt though because I'm thinking it clears you probably even moreso than that one

[ofrhz]

Just to be crystal clear, you think Zoronos is likely scum for being annoyed about math’s meta defense?

[ruru]

Nono I wasn't implying that at all

Him not really accepting it does make him a bit less town to me I guess

But I was actually just saying md is super likely to be town

[ofrhz]

I remember you and pin were both offwagon there. But you guys weren’t voting for the same wagon for like 80% of D1, you know?

Hmm so is your idea that they would be doing something else because the wagon doesn't have enough interest?

I feel like there was plenty of interest and tw plausibly could have been lynched (and it would look less scummy than, say, opportunistically jumping on the town.you wagon)

Like what else would they be doing other than bussing jjh who they probably are reluctant to bus at a convincingly early time due to lack of daychat + him being framer

I feel like it's beneficial for scum to play that way if tw is town, and if that's true, then it's basically "too scummy to be scum"

I’m going entirely off of memory here but

I think interest in tw lynch was generated by HitAlt. So if both HitAlt and jjh were scum, I feel like jjh would have waited until there was express interest from others in lynching tw before hopping onto the wagon.

[ofrhz]

Nono I wasn't implying that at all

Him not really accepting it does make him a bit less town to me I guess

But I was actually just saying md is super likely to be town

Yeah I’m starting to agree about math

That makes the HitAlt wagon look enticing and would mean I’m likely wrong on pintu though

Did you have any thoughts on pintu

[Zoronos]

I'm not annoyed at Math's meta arguments, I just don't find meta convincing. I think most people are bad at it so usually will get it wrong, so I don't trust town to apply it properly. Also, I've seen scum more than once say 'meta' to justify reads that don't have justification. So largely I ignore cases predicated on meta. Conversely, I thought NSG's JJH case was excellent. Cases don't have to be long or intricate to be good.
Which is personal preference, and I can see why it would annoy both scum!math and town!math so frankly I don't think it's scummy of math to get annoyed by my antics.

Anyway, the reason I was specifically curious about Math was some interesting (to me) VC reduction that could be done if math is town.

Spoiler: D2 VC

HitAlt (3): ruru, the worst, Mathdino,
Mathdino (2): davesaz, pinturicchio,
the worst (1): BlackStar,
pinturicchio (1): ofrhz,

Not Voting: HeWhoSwims, HitAlt, Zoronos,

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

So, let's live in the land where the following people are town:
Me, HWS, ruru, Blackstar, Ofrhz.
That reduces the VC to this:

HitAlt (3): the worst, Mathdino,
Mathdino (2): davesaz, pinturicchio,

Not Voting: HitAlt

We pull out MD, and now we have the following effective VC:

HitAlt (3): the worst
Mathdino (2): davesaz, pinturicchio,

Not Voting: HitAlt

Spoiler: pre-claim D1 VC

1181 + a couple votes not captured on the VC, again, adding math to green-list.

Jjh927

(6):

northsidegal

, the worst, pinturicchio,

ruru

,

Mathdino

,

BlackStar

(+

Zoronos

declaring intent to hammer)

HeWhoSwims

(3): davesaz,

ofrhz

,

BlackStar

the worst (2): HitAlt,

jjh927

davesaz (1):

Zoronos

Not Voting:

Something_Smart

,

HeWhoSwims

[Mathdino]

oh yeah i forgot to say

given some time and space from the comments that initially made me think pintu is town, i no longer believe that it's super unlikely for scum-pintu to have faked this performance

that said, i think he should be lynched after another red flip, not today

open to compelling arguments otherwise, i'm just not feelin' it

[ruru]

I remember you and pin were both offwagon there. But you guys weren’t voting for the same wagon for like 80% of D1, you know?

Hmm so is your idea that they would be doing something else because the wagon doesn't have enough interest?

I feel like there was plenty of interest and tw plausibly could have been lynched (and it would look less scummy than, say, opportunistically jumping on the town.you wagon)

Like what else would they be doing other than bussing jjh who they probably are reluctant to bus at a convincingly early time due to lack of daychat + him being framer

I feel like it's beneficial for scum to play that way if tw is town, and if that's true, then it's basically "too scummy to be scum"

I’m going entirely off of memory here but

I think interest in tw lynch was generated by HitAlt. So if both HitAlt and jjh were scum, I feel like jjh would have waited until there was express interest from others in lynching tw before hopping onto the wagon.

Hmm, I just checked and yeah, but what about that makes HA less likely to be scum though rather than jjh making a decision you find weird

Wouldn't it also be weird by that logic if HA is town

The "strong" cases / likely lynches at the time were like

ofrhz
jjh
tw

right?

jjh has to pick one, maybe he felt like HA's case on tw is objectively best regardless of HA's alignment

[ruru]

I mean the real question that your logic leads to is why didn't jjh try to lynch you honestly