Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Shoshin]

Like if you actually read my posts you’d know my vote has absolutely nothing to do with you voting him.

I don't see how you suspect me yet keep voting in concert with me (first on Gamma, now on Key).

[Gustavo]

I’m voting people I find scummy. I’m not going to let my scum read of you affect that. Everyone thinks you are town so I have to ignore my own scum read of you and continue to play the game.

And as I said earlier I didn’t realize you were voting Keyser. The fact that you are doesn’t change my opinion of Keyser. So if you are town, stfu and vote who you are genuinely scum reading. If you are scum keep up this crappy shit. Town will see through it the moment I’m lynched and flip town.

[Gustavo]

Remember, Town has to work together to find scum. Day one shows my willingness time do that. I could have easily death tunneled you. I can do it now if you really want me to but if you are town then that would be stupid right?

These little things you do keep adding to my scum read of you but people are too blind to see it.

[Gustavo]

God my fucking typos.

[brassherald]

The Declaration of Independence was not fully drafted and signed until about July 9.

Votecount 2.1

momrangal (2)

~ Bernie Sanders, skitter30

Keyser Soze (1)

~ Gustavo

Mathdino (1)

~ Nauci

Not_Mafia(1)

~ Irrelephant11

Gustavo (1)

~ shoshin

Not Voting (6): Mathdino, Momrangal, Not_Mafia, the worst, EPB

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-15 20:30:00)

Mod Notes

Momrangal and Gustavo are VLA
Mathdino has been prodded due to extensive time missing the end of day 1 as well.

[Irrelephant11]

It still exists, he’s prolly fourth on both those lists. But I also think generally it’s more likely that people off the Gamma wagon are town than those on the wagon, and Mom and Nauci’s unwillingness to vote Gamma both included scummy moments that Keyser didn’t have EOD. He’s much closer to null for that reason, and also because all my townreads townread him

[Irrelephant11]

The reason my heart scumreads Gustavo is that his aggressive play seems more intended to scare us away from scumreading him than to actually sort other players or help town see his POV. The above seems like a good example.

But then my brain joins everyone else in thinking Stungun was too towny...

[Gustavo]

The reason my heart scumreads Gustavo is that his aggressive play seems more intended to scare us away from scumreading him than to actually sort other players or help town see his POV. The above seems like a good example.

But then my brain joins everyone else in thinking Stungun was too towny...

What’s wrong with aggressive play? If somebody has a good reason to scum read me my aggression shouldn’t stop them. My aggression is a playstyle though and a terrible reason to scum read me.

[Irrelephant11]

I just explained why aggressive play can be anti-town. It discourages others from properly sorting you through an implicit emotional appeal (something like “don’t scumread me or I will get angry with you”). Additionally, it makes it harder to see things from your point of view, because your emotion-filled cases come across as just that - emotional, rather than logical. An example is your case on shoshin: multiple playera (more than three, iirc, which means at minimum one town) said your case on Shoshin was based on inaccuracies, but rather than dealing on a logical level with those assertions, you responded emotionally (“don’t talk to me about this shit anymore if you refuse to see things my way” is a paraphrase from memory)

Like I almost didn’t write that last sentence because I thought it might upset you again, but I’m trying to sort you and share my thought processe, and your aggression is not helping me do that. Nor, from what I can tell, is it helping others benefit from your posts/reads.

[Irrelephant11]

Obviously aggressive play can be pro-town, but in this case I don’t think it is

[Gustavo]

Well I can’t help but be aggressive. That’s how I play

[Gustavo]

Btw all of my cases have come from a logical and non emotional stance so that point is 100% false

[Gustavo]

I’ve been 100% logical the entire game actually

[Nauci]

People who think they are logical are the biggest stubborn asses lmao

Your stances can be as logical as you'd like but if your premises are wrong then you're still wrong

And most others obviously seem to disagree with your premises

Appeals to logic only work if we share a reality, after all

[Gustavo]

But my premises aren’t wrong.

[Nauci]

But aggression means screaming other people down instead of of explaining your reasoning or premises. "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE IT'S OBVIOUS" are so utterly unproductive as to be counter productive and actively make you impossible to sort.

Is it not obvious that no matter how good your reads are, if you don't make yourself sortable we can't trust a damn thing you say?

@irrelephant: I happen to excel the most in emotional reading and empathizing do a lot of my scum hunting is base on a somewhat organic approach of seeing if someone's opinions and thought processes come from a genuine place, so every question I have that gets people to explain their state of mind is directly useful. No "but it feels weird!" Is allowed to stand for long, including my own!

[Nauci]

But my premises aren’t wrong.

I'm not sure if you understand the definition of disgree

[Gustavo]

But aggression means screaming other people down instead of of explaining your reasoning or premises. "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE IT'S OBVIOUS" are so utterly unproductive as to be counter productive and actively make you impossible to sort.


But aggression means screaming other people down instead of of explaining your reasoning or premises. "BECAUSE I SAID SO" and "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE IT'S OBVIOUS" are so utterly unproductive as to be counter productive and actively make you impossible to sort.

Ive explained every single one of my reasons so who are you talking about?

I’ve explained my reasons for sho, gamma, Keyser, I’ve mentioned things I’ve found scummy about skittle.

So if this post is meant to describe me, you are completely off base.

I’ve never once said “because I said so” or “what’s wrong with you people”

[Gustavo]

And most others obviously seem to disagree with your premises

I don’t care if poeple agree with them. I can’t control what I find scummy. That’s why I abandoned my sho push. I really regret doing it but that’s the thing people hate about my play so I adapted to please people. It sucks for me but that’s how I get better supposedly. It’s not working

[Gustavo]

I’ve been intentionally not playing the way you described because of an issue I can’t discuss right now so I know you’re lying.

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I can’t speak for Nauci but my brain agrees you’re probablyyyy not scum? The fact that you have no townreads is concerning though.

[Gustavo]

Why? Isn’t the goal to find scum?

[Gustavo]

Like I don’t need to town read people to work with people. I’d town read more people if they stopped doing things to make me doubt it. Like i really really want to yownnread both you and nauci. On the surface you both look town but you do things that make me doubt it. This conversation for example there is no way I see either of your train of thought coming from town because your describing somebody else and saying that’s me.

[Gustavo]

Lol it would be nicer if you would just know I’m town and believe the things I say

But I guess I could write out my thought process in full more often, when that’s helpful

Like this post pings me. Imo town shouldn’t have to make such declarations. It rubs me the wrong way. Instead of expecting people to just trust you, be transparent.

[Irrelephant11]

Scumreading half the game isn’t helpful or accurate. 1701 is aggressive, as was a lot of what you had to say regarding shoshin yesterday. I’m not misrepping you.

That statement to Nauci was meant as a joke, duh “I’m town” doesn’t help