Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[popsofctown]

I think you might be town

[Taly]

taly/pops

D1 Arc completed

cHaRaCtEr DeVeLoPmEnT

[popsofctown]

Are we characters in a visual novel?
Is none of this real?
You're making me think about Ame
That's mean

[NDMath]

Welp
VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99

You think if I make a completely disingenuous case against him it will increase my survival chances?

[popsofctown]

Why not join him in wagoning me?

[NDMath]

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (me and fuzzy). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.

[NDMath]

@pops I don't see how that can happen today. And I'm not near as sure of you being scum as he is.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Fuzzy

[NDMath]

Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town

btw you never answer my question.

Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churros

must have

at least one

town in it, who are they?

What's your take on

NDMath

?

I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.
I still think wiisp-S_S is town but I'm less confident on the read with how little S_S has done.

[popsofctown]

Fuzzy is at L-2. Please Taly or anyone put him to L-1 because I'm not at all comfortable having the leading wagons unclaimed this late

[Taly]

NDMath ISO

Spoiler: 519

Hi. I've played with Luca before and that's it. And he isn't here yet. I'm not surprised.

I'm tempted to role claim right now but I'll probably get yelled at for it.

Summary of thoughts from first 10 pages:
Strong tr on Tali first for townie tone than amount of contribution.
tr on EyeStott for self-consciousness. I also like #158.
tr on paragon for the initial readlists, I find myself agreeing with them.
Wisp, I don't like #102.
alordtom is very sketch in these pages.
Ame/popsc looks v/w in some order though I'd have to look at pops meta to say that confidently.

From other pages:
#253 is a bad attack from alordtom. To be town they would have to be very scared of mechanics or something.
Rabid's bw might be worse.
tfw he says it's actually a post restriction.
I want to tr paragon but he also should probably be hung.
Popc defense of paragon is weird.
Robin's point was not about town not deceiving ever, it was about this specific instance.
#340 still makes pop/paragon look w/w.
#388 by fuzzy is alarming if paragon is town.
eyestott tone is townie.
I'm thinking either paragon/pops/? or fuzzy/rabid/?
478 (the claim retract) is very bad to do paragon's earlier claim.
I want to tr Ame but don't know if I should.

Hoping that made at least some sense.
I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.

(I think this is called a p-edit but not sure), I really dislike paragon's new attack on tali, I don't see how town thinks what paragon is thinking here.

1)

This post has a lot of thoughts I had going at the time of the thread, namely on

Pops/Ame/Paragon

.

2)

I like that he's not immediately trying to rationalize why his predecessor is town, or hard-pushing a lynch, but he's also not just sitting around...

this is an opener that's far more favorable than most other replace-ins this game.

3)

Coming in with two potential solves is interesting, and I want to know how his reads of

Fuzzy/Luca

have evolved.

I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.

4 Votes with

{Ame/Wisp/Taly/Eyestott}

vote order. Another would put them at L-2.

I may take a breather from the thread as well.

Gonna put my vote on paragon for now since I'm uncomfortable putting pops at L-1 at this moment.
VOTE: Paragon

I find more town-motive than scum-motive by holding off of L-1'ing here, he didn't have strong enough individual scumreads or concrete townreads to want a hammer to be possible, or a claim to be preemptively forced.

Spoiler: 565

eyestott
Aloratom
Wiisp
Yshtola Rhul
Conspire
popsofctown
Ame/Atarashi Hajimari
NDMath/Robbnva
Taly
Luca Blight/Rabid Schnauzer
Taco
TheFuzzylogic99

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Can you explain why Aloratom is so high up? And conspire -- I don't recall much from them or you talking about them.

mmmmmm I'm townreading most people I don't scumread at this point so I feel like I have a pretty solid enough readslist to act off of it in good conscience.

cheers

clinkclink glunkglunk

Tempted to just follow this the next couple days.

NDMath

not knowing much about

Conspire

and wanting to hear a reason on why a slot he suspects is town

(Aloratom)

feels pretty sensible.

Other than that, I can see the buddying that was mentioned about

NDMath

, but I've consistently had little impact on this game wagon-wise, for scum to buddy me it makes most sense if I were mislynchbait.... but if anything, that's backfired given the current EoD1 wagons.

Plus, I felt pretty confident when I made the post that I did, too.

@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.

Does that mean you'll feel sad that you didn't understand me when I flip green, Ame?

I'm townreading Paragon. I figured out another one of his alts and am disappointed there are not as many separate wonderful people in existence as I previously thought but also by meta I think it gives me additional reason to be townreading him.
I share his frustration that preflip assoc reads are stupid, there is probably inherent validity to a gamestate read that Paragon is probably aligned with me, and people are just errantly presuming that it's S/S. Like I actually don't care way too much about getting mislynched here, I was starting to miss my day1 mislynch meta and I think there will be lots to read from the debris, but confbiasing into preflip assocs squanders the reads you can develop using this dayphase. Preflip assocs are inherently bad play because player's reads are actually very close to rand but psychologically they tend to feel more confident than that.
Taco seems kind of townish to me. Maybe, like on tone?
NDMath's catchup seemed scummy to me, though I'm not sure that's accurate omgus. Would like to see more from the slot.
Y'shtola's passivity is at a critical mass. I am not sure how it would ever be possible to townread her the way she's playing.

The further into this post I read the more I disliked it.

I disagree with Luca's argument about Rabid but I see no point in arguing it.

He's consistent by the way he desires to play.
I wish there was more elaboration on

Pops'

post or

Luca's

argument about

Rabid

here.

How’ve I deviated from my town meta?

You have the most accurate scum reads of anyone I've played with so far on this site. Fuzzy is such a bad and opportunistic push. Although you did do the same thing with Aaron. I guess I have you in the BoP category in my mind so it pings me when you're pushing in the wrong direction.

This seems like a slip to me. There is nothing to suggest Fuzzy is Town, so why does Ame so firmly believe I’m pushing in the wrong direction? Ame had Fuzzy in her second bottom pile earlier and has since not updated her read. This stance makes no sense from town.

Opportunistic is a key word there.

The fifth time of rereading Ame's post I finally figured out what your point was. I agree now it doesn't make sense.

I actually found

Ame's

stance a bit off here too but I didn't think to push it as I felt she was town overall.

I don't see the point of

NDMath's

interjection here, though.

Spoiler: 767

He’s got a gimmick. I normally hate gimmicks but this one isn’t annoying

Implied a recruiting ability in 46
Hinted at an investigative in 70
Hinted at Miller in 73
Macho Cop 93
Roleblocker 156
145 in retrospect was Paragon talking to himself and not being clear about asking Wiisp a question
164 was a disingenuous question to me when it could have been cleared up by just saying a mistake was made
197 claims to have a question quota role in a normal game
And 38 is still a scummy post

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the L-1 test, but it all adds up to scummy behavior to me.

VOTE: Paragon

NDMath, could you explain what you found bad about this attack on me? I don't think it implies Aloratom is scared of mechanics like you mentioned, it looks more like Aloratom is suspicious of me for fake-crumbing/causing confusion as scum.

Additionally, do you mind explaining what you found weird about popsofctown's defense of me? You were also townreading me at the time of writing that.

VOTE: NDMath to show respect.

How is that confusing, it's clearly just a play style thing which is easy to ignore? And its really not take-crumbing, more so openly softing. Like a vt doesn't care what anyone's roles is until they hard claim. (When I said that I didn't realize you were claiming the question quota as part of your role.) Then there is no explanation of what about this case is different which makes you scummy. Overall the attack is just a bunch of "he did this" and "he did that" with no justification for why this or that is scummy.
It looked like pops was trying to save you by also claiming a post restriction and then he awkwardly retracted it.
Now I'm more so scumreading you on your reaction to people pushing you for being confusing, and your Tali push. For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

And I think each of my posts the past few pages have fallen on deaf ears aside from

Pops/Alo/Ame

, and I scumread one.

I'm listening. I just agree too much to say anything on them.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this exchange.

I don't follow why

Paragon

cared about roles/crumbing in the first place, or why

Aloratom's

push had validity in his eyes since they were mechanics based like

NDMath

said, and that can be interpreted as scum-indicative since there's no reason to care so much about crumbing/roles at this stage of the game.

But

Paragon

gave

Aloratom

the benefit of the doubt when

NDMath

didn't.

I don't know, it took me 10 minutes to wrap a coherent thought over this.

NDMath

vibing with me but not doing much more.

Spoiler: 828

For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

The former:

I've explained and addressed things here. Do you think I was intentionally causing confusion as scum in the hopes to derail discussion? Do you think the negative attention would not offset me from doing that as scum?

The latter:

Taly recently asked to townbloc with me. I posts I've quoted all have a similar theme, in that I read them as

faked

- for lack of a better word. Others don't seem to see what I'm seeing though, so I'll drop that line of reasoning and try not to consider it in my read of Taly.

I'm not scumreading you by what scum you likely does. It's about what town you would never do. As town if you notice your causing confusion surely you react better. Both alignments care about not receiving negative attention, so I don't see the validity of that point.
The town bloc thing was definitely a joke.

@

Tom:

I can understand your PoV a bit better now. Ngl, I was impressed by your play in that other game and have been disappointed by what I’ve seen from you so far. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you’re still working your way into the game.

UNVOTE:

I don’t think Paragon is a good lynch for today, so maybe you can try and work with me on someone else? How are you feeling about the Rob/Math slot?

The way Luca talks about me here makes me uncomfortable.

@

Tom:

I can understand your PoV a bit better now. Ngl, I was impressed by your play in that other game and have been disappointed by what I’ve seen from you so far. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you’re still working your way into the game.

UNVOTE:

I don’t think Paragon is a good lynch for today, so maybe you can try and work with me on someone else? How are you feeling about the Rob/Math slot?

I don't think anything that Robb did was particularly AI. He moved his vote a few places, settling on Pops. Ame's not wrong when she says that once Robb gets locked, he'll death tunnel. He'll even admit that. I have a feeling he was headed in that direction, and I give him credit for dropping the game when he did.

Anyway, NDMath's entry post 519 was somewhat odd in the sense that it looks like he put work into it, but it could have been written better and more thought could have been gone into it.

I was trying to get something posted with my thoughts on the game so far.

Not giving links to posts makes it difficult to follow trains of thought.

I didn't realize that I should be.

He didn't understand my push on Paragon obviously; I'm not sure what he means by me being scared of mechanics. He gives several other surface reads with no basis, and then gives a couple of possible scum trios: paragon/pops/? or fuzzy/rabid/?, but no reasoning behind them.

NDMath was taken in by the Paragon's Conspire con in 565, so I can understand some overall confusion there. And he makes a big push on Paragon in 767 that I'm not sure I completely get.

Perhaps the most striking thing I see is in NDMath's 519 entry post he was Town reading Paragon, and then in 565 he voted Paragon with no explanation other than "Gonna put my vote on paragon for now since I'm uncomfortable putting pops at L-1 at this moment." Those posts are timestamped about 10 hours apart. That's seems odd.

The read started to change in the middle of post 519, I kind of regret formatting the post that way but I wanted to give background to my initial thoughts. The initial townread was probably biased by play style, but I disliked the way he had handled people being frustrated with his post restriction claim, then the paragon/pops interaction was scummy.

I guess I can see a scum lean here, but I don't know that I'm ready to lynch the slot for being scummy yet. Actually, I'm a bit surprised you want to go after NDMath after your bit about it being easy for scum to get away with tunneling in this situation after their replacing out.

Do you want to lynch this slot because you find it scummy or for analysis?

Wisp, I don't like #102.

Why?

Is "I don't remember and no longer think so." a bad answer?

478 (the claim retract) is very bad to do paragon's earlier claim.

Can you elaborate on this. There's no retraction in 478.

Oops. Point was more so that there was an awkward claim and retraction made worse by paragons earlier claim. It's bad in that if a townie wants to defend someone, they don't just make stuff up similar to what the person they're defending made up and try to then justify the behavior that way.

I want to tr Ame but don't know if I should.

Why?

I have found you townie, but some players null behavior is naturally townie and it seems like you probably fall in that group.

Then you followed by wiisp.

Where did you begin to town read Wisp?

I liked #527 a lot, as well as I got confused due to being overwhelmed by playerlist and thought I was also already slightly townreading the slot.

It looked like pops was trying to save you by also claiming a post restriction and then he awkwardly retracted it.

You honestly believe a scum mate would defend their partner's fake restriction by also claiming a fake restriction? In a normal game? This is just silly and I'm not buying it from either you or Taly.

I had thought it seemed like a panic thing. The interaction surrounding it also seemed w/w.

1)

In a world that

Wiisp

wasn't discussed or townread much, I liked that

NDMath

freely spoke on the read.

2)

NDMath

has a lot of opinions similar to me and I can't quite see how they're forced when he doesn't have them based around my interaction with him. The post restriction claims, and

Paragon

not being transparent with the thread.

3)

He was correct about my townbloc joke to

Paragon

; I don't think scum trying to buddy me would look into my posting that much.

4)

He isn't trying to force a read with

Ame

either, it's simple like with

Wiisp

but it doesn't feel agenda-based. More like he's genuinely not feeling it since he's keeping up communication.

Spoiler: 1106

Towniest

Taly

eyestott

- I liked the point Taly made of a slot being too townread is bad, but I think it is fine with consideration to why they are so heavily townread.

Wiisp

- I just find myself liking his posts despite not always agreeing with it. I also see him as scum being more proactive right now. Like I don't see post 717 as scum since his position is something rather easy for mafia to utilize effectively to gain an advantage later.

Aloratom

- There was something they did that make me think "I suppose that makes up for there scummy early days. I should put them up here." Now that I'm filling in reasons I have no recollection of what that was.

Ame

- Has a very townie tone, especially now when the awkward phrasing Luca pointed out is clearly how they always talk. I would need to look at some meta before I would be willing to move them higher, though I don't see the need right now.

Taco

- When he is here the tone of his posts are slightly townie.

Luca Blight

- Whenever he says my name I get uncomfortable. I am now jotting that to paranoia of him forcing a hang on me again. I'm finding him slightly townie now because he isn't as aggressive as he I recall being in his scum game with me.

TheFuzzylogic99

- I don't have much to read off of other than most of the other people I scumread have been pushing him, so it doesn't really make sense for him to be scum. I would reconsider if someone else flips counter to what I was expecting.

Yshtola Rhul

- I can understand what they're saying but I've got no clue how to determine alignment out of it. They fit best here.

popsofctown

- This is primarily from what others are saying ngl.

Paragon

- My play style as scum is matching up with how he's playing. More specifically the reason why some things I do as scum but not as town are the things I'm nothing him doing. In addition as said earlier I really dislike his Taly attack.
Scummiest

I'll explain Tali read tomorrow with longer explanation than this stuff. I'm gonna sleep now.
I might have forgotten about something someone @'d at me.

Consistent reads, mostly. I think it's odd that he places

Alo

higher without trying to remember what was so impactful about the read.

I also don't feel that

NDMath-Fuzzy

is S-S, mostly because this is a similar mindset I had when towncasing

Fuzzy

, I felt the people pursuing him were likelier scum based off my read at the time.

NDMath's

paranoia feels justified given

Luca's

recent interaction with him, I guess they've played together before?

He doesn't force scumreads as everybody above the bottom 3 had a variation of a townread, it seemed like a realistic call and his progression with

Wiisp

reassures me since

Wiisp

had no reason to openly voice an idea to be lazy and focusing more D2. I would've liked more voice on the

Eyestott

townread, especially since he agreed with my point.

To do list:
1. Explain why I'm so sure Tali is town.
2. Convince Luca Blight I'm town.
3. Convince Wiisp it's possible for me to be sure he's town.

Hopefully I get at least some of that (the first one) done in the next couple hours.

Also if Churros is scum Luca is town and if Churros is town Luca is also town.

So

Luca

went from weak town to very likely town when

Churros

started coming into the thread? Not sure if I follow.

Spoiler: 1289

@Maths why is your play so different from your other two games?

Neither of those 2 games went well for me. So I'm having the conflict of wanting to do stuff different but not really knowing what and I haven't put in enough effort to effectively change stuff.
Part of it is fear to act the same way but I don't know what I'm supposed to do different/better.

I'm not gonna have stuff linked because I'm struggling with that and it's gonna slow me down way too much. I'm probably doing something inefficient and not knowing it.

Iso starting at #24 since that's around the point I started to really townread Taly beyond contribution.

#24 Although it is speculative the asking for clarification comes from town more.

#25 I understand the thought process behind and said it myself later.

#29 Nice wallpost. The robb paragraph specifically has good reasoning that I question How much of gets said by scum. The readlist is convincing in a much stronger form than just "I guess it is.".

#33 His reaction to pops saying he made eyestott an ic is a very townie reaction.

#35 Just how actively he is engaged in the thread. And his later frustration is too well placed to be fake imo.

#36 His hangpool is solid and I understand exactly how he got to all of it.

#38 Is a frustration post that is... I don't know how to explain it but that post specifically has several thoughts that I think are very townie.

#39 I like his paragon pressure.

#44 I guess I don't see what situation a scum would dare say something like this day 1.

#46 Explains my dislike of paragon/pops interaction better than I could. Though I think paragon is worse of the two.

#49 Makes good points about hanging active posters and harder to believe genuineness in some of pop's and paragon's pushes.

#53 felt townie given paragon's push of just quoting a ton of posts and labeling them scummy.

More coming SoonTM.
If I'm hanged before than I'm strongly thinking Paragon/Cherro/Pops.

I don't think I've ever seen scum try to towncase me if they want to pocket or buddy me.

A lot of thoughts on a lot of my posts, it's hard to say that this is a fake narrative. He also doesn't refine his post formatting and I almost want to townread that even though it should be NAI, I figured a case from scum would've been more polished and with less justification across all my posting.

There's no

"Taly is just town!

or

"Taly may not if...

and you can follow it.

The more I put off contributing to this game the harder it becomes.

Same. Exact feeling I felt at the time.

@Pops

To be fair I didn't think much of NDmath slot until mostly the read list thing, but my mind was on Taly/Fuzzy way early and that post didn't make me want to switch main focus.

By suspicious do you mean you're suspicious I'm like, trying to distract from the NDmath wagon or something?

I know this is super self-conscious but I do think the chance of NDmath flipping scum is decent and I'm actually gonna be disappointed if I get tied to him because I'm pursuing Taly right now.

Especially given that by my read list it's not difficult to see one of my solves would be something like [Fuzzy/Taly/Math]. At the moment I don't want to risk going for what I see a lower odd/reward lynch though...

If it's for another reason you don't trust me it's ok. kinda?

Can you explain how that is "super self-conscious" since I don't follow.

Yeah, I really want to know this, too.

Can you explain your reads a bit more?

Particularly your scumreads and your progression on Tom.

He's the type of player I struggle to play with, as in end up scunreading each other and disagree with principles. I wasn't posting thoughts related to this, but the town read grew as I realized this was the case. They also had a string of posts which were another big change in the read, which now I really need to find. Also when I scumread paragon more they had moved closer to null because the two don't really work as w/w.

[/quote]

My biggest gripe so far is that

NDMath

gives you his opinions but doesn't digress on whether it's town-motive or scum-motive, he makes statements that he likes or dislikes, so you have to draw the connections on his read progressions a bit. I can see the suspicion there.

I also find Math’s lack of development on Paragon scum indicative. The fact Paragon is at the bottom of his pile justifies his sitting on a vanity wagon without seeming too opportunistic of the more lynchable slot. At the same time he is scumleaning those lynchable slots, meaning he can ‘compromise’ on them at any time without being held accountable for their green flip (because he wanted a Paragon lynch).

And the reasons for SR’ing Paragon are really bad. There is clearly at least a possible (imo probable) Town motive behind Paragon’s questioning/suspicion of Taly, and his other reason is entirely vague, which we’ll see if he can elaborate on.

He wasn't a vanity wagon when I had joined it. Now wagons are me/fuzzy/pops, I don't really want to switch to fuzzy by interactions, and pops is only at 2 so I can hold out for paragon wagon to come back for a bit longer.
Define "lynchable slot" because I think that fits more players than not under the definition you're using.
I'm struggling with expressing reads in a convincing form. (Guess that's an excuse oops)

First post of his I had a knee-jerk reaction against. I don't vibe with his insistence of vote-parking without at least trying to convince others of his reads, but at least he's self-aware he's not too confident here.

Going to just post this before it somehow gets erased and I have a breakdown; part 2 here we go.

But right now, I feel like I've slept on critically evaluating

NDMath

here and I'm not all for

Churros/Luca

saying he's scum around this point of the ISO?

I'll reserve judgment until I finish.

[NDMath]

3)

Coming in with two potential solves is interesting, and I want to know how his reads of Fuzzy/Luca have evolved.

Luca moved to town because the game I played before with him he was scum and played a role in me getting hanged day1. He's wanting me hanged again but his reasoning is more sound and he is being less forceful about. He is now town lean because I'm doubting myself some.
Fuzzy's posting has been mostly nai to me but I town lean him slightly because of the lack of pushing or opposition of his hang.

I wish there was more elaboration on Pops' post or Luca's argument about Rabid here.

I kind of read Rabid's replacement spec as "What are my teammates doing this isn't at all what I agreed to?"
Though either way it's replacement spec which should have next to no value.

So Luca went from weak town to very likely town when Churros started coming into the thread? Not sure if I follow.

Churros interaction towards Luca wasn't S/S at all.
That was also the point when I was biasing Luca town the most because that was when I was noting differences in Luca's push towards me and hadn't started to doubt myself. Also Churro's scumread of Luca was similar to his of mine in a way it didn't make sense to me for his of Luca to be right.

[Taly]

NDMath ISO Pt. 2

Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?

In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.

I really don't get how you think we look w/w?

I mean, yeah, I liked

NDMath's

earlier posts a bit more but hearing this from Clocked-

Churros

? Meh.

I haven't really seen justification for

NDMath-Taly

S-S either?

We're doing a VERY SHITTY job as scum if we were S-S.

I really want to hear more about your Paragon SR.

In the last several pages he has been just trying to hold a storyline together, putting an "I agree with this" or "Glad someone understands" whenever someone posts something which matches his storyline. That is not how a townie plays. He's become a spectator merely cheering on people who are saying what he wants them to, not saying anything of his own besides reasonless readlists.

The readlists aren't helpful and push for anything.

The fact that nobody else has caught or echo'ed this makes me feel like it comes from scum much less, especially considering that

NDMath

is rivaling 2 other wagons here.

Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?

In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.

I really don't get how you think we look w/w?

I've better reasons to think most other slots are town?

There's another reason as well but if Taly really is scum I've no intention of helping them out.

You answered my question with a question which does not address my question.
To clarify, I'm asking why you think the two of us look like scum teammates.

Yeah,

NDMath's

posting might be weird here:
If he weren't wagoned.
If he didn't strongly townread me.

But neither of that applies here, seems like he's trying to get a handle on a gamestate that's taking whatever he says as scum.

Spoiler: 1524

@Pops

To be fair I didn't think much of NDmath slot until mostly the read list thing, but my mind was on Taly/Fuzzy way early and that post didn't make me want to switch main focus.

By suspicious do you mean you're suspicious I'm like, trying to distract from the NDmath wagon or something?

I know this is super self-conscious but I do think the chance of NDmath flipping scum is decent and I'm actually gonna be disappointed if I get tied to him because I'm pursuing Taly right now.

Especially given that by my read list it's not difficult to see one of my solves would be something like [Fuzzy/Taly/Math]. At the moment I don't want to risk going for what I see a lower odd/reward lynch though...

If it's for another reason you don't trust me it's ok. kinda?

Can you explain how that is "super self-conscious" since I don't follow.

Can you explain your reads a bit more?

Particularly your scumreads and your progression on Tom.

He's the type of player I struggle to play with, as in end up scunreading each other and disagree with principles. I wasn't posting thoughts related to this, but the town read grew as I realized this was the case. They also had a string of posts which were another big change in the read, which now I really need to find. Also when I scumread paragon more they had moved closer to null because the two don't really work as w/w.

Can I ask what you mean by disagree with principles?

Disagree on basic stuff like "what is protown?", "what is inherently scummy?", "when is wifom used?" and similar stuff which apply to all games and many situations in those games.

He's listing all the easier reasons you could push someone as scum for as one's he doesn't want to use to read someone.

I know a while ago someone said asked something to taly about me trying to buddy them. I'm not finding it.

To address it though, as town I almost every game try to buddy with someone. It usually doesn't happen but I generally still try. I do this because it makes me more comfortable discussing specifically with and trusting someone who trusts me, and removes some stress of people being unpredictable when I really only got to watch one person's opinion of my towniness/scumminess.
The players I do end up buddying with, in the past at least, line up rather well with the players I am most scared of reading me when I'm mafia.

The fact that

NDMath

is outlining his perspective here instead of giving a game-specific reason strikes me as genuine.

But I am concerned a bit on why he's worried of my read on him the most, since I think his buddying explanation implies he is hesitant about a player's read on them. That is a bit worrying.

@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?

Things that were asked more than once by more than one person to more than one person, but never answered.

What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?

I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.

Blegh, the

Paragon

read feels weak based off of this, I at least want to hear out what the one similarity is.

NDmath is continually and ostentatiously not town btw. Churros can we lynch Math and go from there? Please

@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?

Don't know, don't care.
Don't know, don't care.
You preflip assoc people will never take me alive.

Churros was pushing Taly, then you tell him to hang me first and go from there. As a general principle, I think either way I flip should have some effect on the willingness of pursuing Taly, but when asked you provide no thoughts -- not even to which way makes Taly look worse, which suggests that you are not serious when you tell Churros you will go from my flip to decide if Taly should be hung. That's not something you should be doing as town.
Now is good a time as any to join a wagon I suppose.
VOTE: popsofctown

I thought the vote was justified. If I'm being scumread by

Churros

who scumreads

NDMath

as an associative to me (someone who townreads me) - and

Pops

tells

Churros

that

NDMath

is the better lynch - but

Pops

has no specifically stated read on me - I'd want to push why.

Now, I'm thinking

Pops

has this perspective based on just townreading

Churros

and feeling less confident that I'm scum - or wanted to sort

NDMath

better, but this wasn't elaborated at this point in time.

I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".

Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.
UNVOTE: popsofctown

And I think

Pops'

reply and

NDMath's

unvoted made sense.

Pops

brings a valid point about not even focusing so hard on preflip associatives as

Churros

did and

NDMath's

unvoted gained him nothing in terms of pursuing a lynch outside of himself as scum. It seemed genuine.

Spoiler: 1598

Lets make this a wagon. VOTE: Churros
Though I will switch to Fuzzy if it is needed.

Disagree on basic stuff like "what is protown?", "what is inherently scummy?", "when is wifom used?" and similar stuff which apply to all games and many situations in those games.

How would that change your read of me this game? Actually, how would you determine that to begin with? I don't think we've played together before have we?

That changed my read of you from scumlean to null, because I realized I was scumreading you for things I shouldn't be scumreading you for. I determined it from primarily 570, 772 (specifically the part on jargon), and 777. In addition to a couple posts I had initially scumread you for.
I found myself disagreeing with some of your thoughts/actions which weren't opinions, and when that happens repeatedly it's generally not because of alignment.

@Luca, I'm not used to iso'ing so forgot that I had the ability to, but the string of townie posts from Tom I was referring to were on page 32 starting with 777.
What I really like about these posts is the confidence in their own play style when it's not being attacked. I don't see mafia defending why their play style is good when it's not being attacked or questioned, as that limits their options later.

I want to know what changed with

Fuzzy

being a potential vote.

Churros

vote is most expected with his previous posting.

The

Alo

reasoning is solid since I don't think scum would look back at earlier posts so deeply, and in the context of verifying a stance on the slot that's town-indicative. This faith in gamesolving and reading another player feels town-indicative, and it's not a sharp change in direction from his earlier posting about

Alo

.

What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?

I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.

I don’t like this stalling, especially considering he still hasn’t answered it.

Math’s reasoning for Paragon being his main SR was that Paragon is doing a lot of things that Math does as scum. When I ask him to expland on this he takes forever to answer, and finally gives an answer in 1507 in which he says paragon has been agreeing with a lot of stuff recently. This strikes me as scummy reasoning for a couple of reasons:

1) it ignores Paragon’s play as a whole, which is far from what Math is portraying it as here

2) it neglects to mention anything pertaining to Math’s original reasoning, which is was I asked him to explain.

I had to ask again to clarify what he meant in his original reasoning and he made the stalling post above. It’s as though he’s been caught making shit up and so tried to find something else he could throw at Paragon in its place.

What is your experience with

NDMath

?

NDMath

was is your experience with

Luca

?

I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".

Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.
UNVOTE: popsofctown

Not convinced, so why unvote and wagon Churros instead?

His Churros vote seems really random after his previous views on that slot. The way he states he is willing to compromise on Fuzzy also seems scummy - it’s as though he knows his current vote is vanity and unlikely to go anywhere (especially as Math has literally no reasoning behind his vote) but knows it will be less opportunistic looking than going straight for someone like Fuzzy.

Weird as well how Math is seemingly sheeping Taly’s view on Churros, but not his view on Fuzzy. Any reason for this?

And I don’t get why he’s suddenly given up on pursuing Pops.

-"You're scummy for moving your vote to a vanity wagon."
-"Suspicious how you're not strongly townreading the only nonvanity wagon besides yourself."

I disagree with the points

Luca

make here.

1)

Unlike

NDMath

in an earlier post, I scumread

Churros

regardless of your alignment,

Luca

.

2)

My thoughts on his above posts make

NDMath's

vote on

Churros

not random.

Welp
VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99

You think if I make a completely disingenuous case against him it will increase my survival chances?

I don't follow your read on

Fuzzy

, tbh. You say he's a decent vote but also say that a case on him is disingenuous?

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (me and fuzzy). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.

Important note for later this game.

Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town

btw you never answer my question.

Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churros

must have

at least one

town in it, who are they?

What's your take on

NDMath

?

I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.
I still think wiisp-S_S is town but I'm less confident on the read with how little S_S has done.

Ultimately, I'm sorry that I'm not convinced

NDMath

is scum?

[popsofctown]

So are you gonna vote FuzzyLogic?

[Taly]

I want to solve

NDMath

more. Didn't follow

Churros/Luca

reasons for suspicion.

I don't like either lynch, but

NDMath

>

Fuzzy

content-wise.

VOTE: Fuzzy

This is L-1. Please wait for claim.

p-edit

So are you gonna vote FuzzyLogic?

omg

pops

I was hugging my parents goodnight 1v1 me

[popsofctown]

Did you wash your hands

[Luca Blight]

I think Math’s reasons for scumreading Paragon, which he was then entirely unable to explain, and then tried to stall and deflect away from, is scum-indicative?

I haven’t read the recent stuff as I’ve just woken up but by vote stays.

[popsofctown]

Taly is like Ender from the book, if he understands his enemy too much he understands its mind and sympathizes too much and then doesn't want to kill it.

How can we destroy your empathy so you can scumread people Taly?

[popsofctown]

You could lolhammer Fuzzy right now Luca
la poder esta en tus manos
you could seize the vengaza you crave and rob me of a careful d1 the way I so cruelly wrested one from you

[Taly]

What deters you from

Fuzzy

lynch?

And if

Math

is hear I want an explanation of

Paragon

read, too.

Taly is like Ender from the book, if he understands his enemy too much he understands its mind and sympathizes too much and then doesn't want to kill it.

How can we destroy your empathy so you can scumread people Taly?

Idk, nobody is overtly stupid or fucking insane this game, so it's hard to stick on scumreads when there's WAAAAAY too much content with no concrete information.

But otherwise, accurate personality assessment.

[Luca Blight]

Gamestate-wise it doesn’t make sense that scum wouldn’t jump on Math after my case against him if Fuzzy is scum and Math Town.

It’s possible they might be partners, but I much prefer a Math lynch.

[Taly]

You could lolhammer Fuzzy right now Luca
la poder esta en tus manos
you could seize the vengaza you crave and rob me of a careful d1 the way I so cruelly wrested one from you

I know you said

Fuzzy

is scum so that read has stuck? What about

NDMath

now?

Gamestate-wise it doesn’t make sense that scum wouldn’t jump on Math after my case against him if Fuzzy is scum and Math Town.

It’s possible they might be partners, but I much prefer a Math lynch.

Hmmm.... I wonder what

Blake

and

Churros

think of this.

[Luca Blight]

And if Fuzzy is scum and Math town then why isn’t he voting Math?

[Taly]

Let's cry together.

[eyestott]

Sorry for the recent inactivity y'all, its been a mix of hectic life brought on by lockdown procedures in victoria (now you can be fined $1600 for a public gathering of more than 2 people not of the same household!) and utter confusion. I'm willing to be the hammer vote for fuzzy if his claim doesn't change circumstances.