Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:34 pm
I think you might be town
taly/pops
D1 Arc completedcHaRaCtEr DeVeLoPmEnT
This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (me and fuzzy). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.In post 1644, Blake Belladonna wrote:I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.
I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.In post 1680, Taly wrote:TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town
btw you never answer my question.Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churrosmust haveat least onetown in it, who are they?
What's your take onNDMath?
I find more town-motive than scum-motive by holding off of L-1'ing here, he didn't have strong enough individual scumreads or concrete townreads to want a hammer to be possible, or a claim to be preemptively forced.In post 565, NDMath wrote:Gonna put my vote on paragon for now since I'm uncomfortable putting pops at L-1 at this moment.In post 524, Taly wrote:4 Votes withIn post 519, NDMath wrote:I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.{Ame/Wisp/Taly/Eyestott}vote order. Another would put them at L-2.
I may take a breather from the thread as well.
VOTE: Paragon
He's consistent by the way he desires to play.In post 687, NDMath wrote:@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.
The further into this post I read the more I disliked it.In post 594, popsofctown wrote:Does that mean you'll feel sad that you didn't understand me when I flip green, Ame?
I'm townreading Paragon. I figured out another one of his alts and am disappointed there are not as many separate wonderful people in existence as I previously thought but also by meta I think it gives me additional reason to be townreading him.
I share his frustration that preflip assoc reads are stupid, there is probably inherent validity to a gamestate read that Paragon is probably aligned with me, and people are just errantly presuming that it's S/S. Like I actually don't care way too much about getting mislynched here, I was starting to miss my day1 mislynch meta and I think there will be lots to read from the debris, but confbiasing into preflip assocs squanders the reads you can develop using this dayphase. Preflip assocs are inherently bad play because player's reads are actually very close to rand but psychologically they tend to feel more confident than that.
Taco seems kind of townish to me. Maybe, like on tone?
NDMath's catchup seemed scummy to me, though I'm not sure that's accurate omgus. Would like to see more from the slot.
Y'shtola's passivity is at a critical mass. I am not sure how it would ever be possible to townread her the way she's playing.
I disagree with Luca's argument about Rabid but I see no point in arguing it.
I actually foundIn post 573, NDMath wrote:Luca Blight wrote:This seems like a slip to me. There is nothing to suggest Fuzzy is Town, so why does Ame so firmly believe I’m pushing in the wrong direction? Ame had Fuzzy in her second bottom pile earlier and has since not updated her read. This stance makes no sense from town.In post 654, Ame wrote:You have the most accurate scum reads of anyone I've played with so far on this site. Fuzzy is such a bad and opportunistic push. Although you did do the same thing with Aaron. I guess I have you in the BoP category in my mind so it pings me when you're pushing in the wrong direction.In post 596, Luca Blight wrote:How’ve I deviated from my town meta?Opportunistic is a key word there.
The fifth time of rereading Ame's post I finally figured out what your point was. I agree now it doesn't make sense.
SoIn post 1261, NDMath wrote:To do list:
1. Explain why I'm so sure Tali is town.
2. Convince Luca Blight I'm town.
3. Convince Wiisp it's possible for me to be sure he's town.
Hopefully I get at least some of that (the first one) done in the next couple hours.
Also if Churros is scum Luca is town and if Churros is town Luca is also town.
Same. Exact feeling I felt at the time.In post 1501, NDMath wrote:The more I put off contributing to this game the harder it becomes.
Yeah, I really want to know this, too.In post 1503, NDMath wrote:Can you explain how that is "super self-conscious" since I don't follow.In post 1252, Churros wrote:@Pops
To be fair I didn't think much of NDmath slot until mostly the read list thing, but my mind was on Taly/Fuzzy way early and that post didn't make me want to switch main focus.
By suspicious do you mean you're suspicious I'm like, trying to distract from the NDmath wagon or something?
I know this is super self-conscious but I do think the chance of NDmath flipping scum is decent and I'm actually gonna be disappointed if I get tied to him because I'm pursuing Taly right now.
Especially given that by my read list it's not difficult to see one of my solves would be something like [Fuzzy/Taly/Math]. At the moment I don't want to risk going for what I see a lower odd/reward lynch though...
If it's for another reason you don't trust me it's ok. kinda?
[/quote]In post 1503, NDMath wrote:He's the type of player I struggle to play with, as in end up scunreading each other and disagree with principles. I wasn't posting thoughts related to this, but the town read grew as I realized this was the case. They also had a string of posts which were another big change in the read, which now I really need to find. Also when I scumread paragon more they had moved closer to null because the two don't really work as w/w.Luca Blight wrote:Can you explain your reads a bit more?
Particularly your scumreads and your progression on Tom.
First post of his I had a knee-jerk reaction against. I don't vibe with his insistence of vote-parking without at least trying to convince others of his reads, but at least he's self-aware he's not too confident here.In post 1504, NDMath wrote:He wasn't a vanity wagon when I had joined it. Now wagons are me/fuzzy/pops, I don't really want to switch to fuzzy by interactions, and pops is only at 2 so I can hold out for paragon wagon to come back for a bit longer.In post 1172, Luca Blight wrote:I also find Math’s lack of development on Paragon scum indicative. The fact Paragon is at the bottom of his pile justifies his sitting on a vanity wagon without seeming too opportunistic of the more lynchable slot. At the same time he is scumleaning those lynchable slots, meaning he can ‘compromise’ on them at any time without being held accountable for their green flip (because he wanted a Paragon lynch).
And the reasons for SR’ing Paragon are really bad. There is clearly at least a possible (imo probable) Town motive behind Paragon’s questioning/suspicion of Taly, and his other reason is entirely vague, which we’ll see if he can elaborate on.
Define "lynchable slot" because I think that fits more players than not under the definition you're using.
I'm struggling with expressing reads in a convincing form. (Guess that's an excuse oops)
Luca moved to town because the game I played before with him he was scum and played a role in me getting hanged day1. He's wanting me hanged again but his reasoning is more sound and he is being less forceful about. He is now town lean because I'm doubting myself some.3)Coming in with two potential solves is interesting, and I want to know how his reads of Fuzzy/Luca have evolved.
I kind of read Rabid's replacement spec as "What are my teammates doing this isn't at all what I agreed to?"I wish there was more elaboration on Pops' post or Luca's argument about Rabid here.
Churros interaction towards Luca wasn't S/S at all.So Luca went from weak town to very likely town when Churros started coming into the thread? Not sure if I follow.
I mean, yeah, I likedIn post 1507, NDMath wrote:I really don't get how you think we look w/w?In post 1212, Churros wrote:Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?
In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.
The fact that nobody else has caught or echo'ed this makes me feel like it comes from scum much less, especially considering thatIn post 1507, NDMath wrote:Luca Blight wrote:I really want to hear more about your Paragon SR.In post 1507, NDMath wrote:In the last several pages he has been just trying to hold a storyline together, putting an "I agree with this" or "Glad someone understands" whenever someone posts something which matches his storyline. That is not how a townie plays. He's become a spectator merely cheering on people who are saying what he wants them to, not saying anything of his own besides reasonless readlists.
The readlists aren't helpful and push for anything.
Yeah,In post 1524, NDMath wrote:You answered my question with a question which does not address my question.In post 1515, Churros wrote:I've better reasons to think most other slots are town?In post 1507, NDMath wrote:I really don't get how you think we look w/w?In post 1212, Churros wrote:Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?
In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.
There's another reason as well but if Taly really is scum I've no intention of helping them out.
To clarify, I'm asking why you think the two of us look like scum teammates.
The fact thatIn post 1526, NDMath wrote:I know a while ago someone said asked something to taly about me trying to buddy them. I'm not finding it.
To address it though, as town I almost every game try to buddy with someone. It usually doesn't happen but I generally still try. I do this because it makes me more comfortable discussing specifically with and trusting someone who trusts me, and removes some stress of people being unpredictable when I really only got to watch one person's opinion of my towniness/scumminess.
The players I do end up buddying with, in the past at least, line up rather well with the players I am most scared of reading me when I'm mafia.
Things that were asked more than once by more than one person to more than one person, but never answered.In post 1529, NDMath wrote:@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?
Blegh, theIn post 1530, NDMath wrote:I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.In post 1508, Luca Blight wrote:What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?
I thought the vote was justified. If I'm being scumread byIn post 1533, NDMath wrote:popsofctown wrote:NDmath is continually and ostentatiously not town btw. Churros can we lynch Math and go from there? PleaseChurros was pushing Taly, then you tell him to hang me first and go from there. As a general principle, I think either way I flip should have some effect on the willingness of pursuing Taly, but when asked you provide no thoughts -- not even to which way makes Taly look worse, which suggests that you are not serious when you tell Churros you will go from my flip to decide if Taly should be hung. That's not something you should be doing as town.In post 1531, popsofctown wrote:Don't know, don't care.In post 1529, NDMath wrote:@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?
Don't know, don't care.
You preflip assoc people will never take me alive.
Now is good a time as any to join a wagon I suppose.
VOTE: popsofctown
And I thinkIn post 1546, NDMath wrote:Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.In post 1534, popsofctown wrote:I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".
UNVOTE: popsofctown
In post 1629, NDMath wrote:In post 1615, Luca Blight wrote:I don’t like this stalling, especially considering he still hasn’t answered it.In post 1530, NDMath wrote:I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.In post 1508, Luca Blight wrote:What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?
Math’s reasoning for Paragon being his main SR was that Paragon is doing a lot of things that Math does as scum. When I ask him to expland on this he takes forever to answer, and finally gives an answer in 1507 in which he says paragon has been agreeing with a lot of stuff recently. This strikes me as scummy reasoning for a couple of reasons:
1) it ignores Paragon’s play as a whole, which is far from what Math is portraying it as here
2) it neglects to mention anything pertaining to Math’s original reasoning, which is was I asked him to explain.
I had to ask again to clarify what he meant in his original reasoning and he made the stalling post above. It’s as though he’s been caught making shit up and so tried to find something else he could throw at Paragon in its place.
I disagree with the pointsIn post 1629, NDMath wrote:-"You're scummy for moving your vote to a vanity wagon."Luca Blight wrote:Not convinced, so why unvote and wagon Churros instead?In post 1546, NDMath wrote:Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.In post 1534, popsofctown wrote:I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".
UNVOTE: popsofctown
His Churros vote seems really random after his previous views on that slot. The way he states he is willing to compromise on Fuzzy also seems scummy - it’s as though he knows his current vote is vanity and unlikely to go anywhere (especially as Math has literally no reasoning behind his vote) but knows it will be less opportunistic looking than going straight for someone like Fuzzy.
Weird as well how Math is seemingly sheeping Taly’s view on Churros, but not his view on Fuzzy. Any reason for this?
And I don’t get why he’s suddenly given up on pursuing Pops.
-"Suspicious how you're not strongly townreading the only nonvanity wagon besides yourself."
I don't follow your read onIn post 1703, NDMath wrote:Welp
VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99
You think if I make a completely disingenuous case against him it will increase my survival chances?
Important note for later this game.In post 1705, NDMath wrote:This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (me and fuzzy). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.In post 1644, Blake Belladonna wrote:I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.
Ultimately, I'm sorry that I'm not convincedIn post 1708, NDMath wrote:I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.In post 1680, Taly wrote:TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town
btw you never answer my question.Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churrosmust haveat least onetown in it, who are they?
What's your take onNDMath?
I still think wiisp-S_S is town but I'm less confident on the read with how little S_S has done.
omgpopsofctown wrote:So are you gonna vote FuzzyLogic?
Idk, nobody is overtly stupid or fucking insane this game, so it's hard to stick on scumreads when there's WAAAAAY too much content with no concrete information.popsofctown wrote:Taly is like Ender from the book, if he understands his enemy too much he understands its mind and sympathizes too much and then doesn't want to kill it.
How can we destroy your empathy so you can scumread people Taly?
I know you saidIn post 1718, popsofctown wrote:You could lolhammer Fuzzy right now Luca
la poder esta en tus manos
you could seize the vengaza you crave and rob me of a careful d1 the way I so cruelly wrested one from you
Hmmm.... I wonder whatIn post 1720, Luca Blight wrote:Gamestate-wise it doesn’t make sense that scum wouldn’t jump on Math after my case against him if Fuzzy is scum and Math Town.
It’s possible they might be partners, but I much prefer a Math lynch.