Mafiascum.net

In post 1699, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you posted 1468 and i posted 1472 3 minutes later your next 6 posts avoid 1472 and you basically veer off me completely because you realize I am ready to trade my life for yours and that's not something you want despite scumreading me at 95%

In post 1698, Fidget wrote:

In post 1696, shellyc wrote:fidget do you like, see the possibility of noraa town because i find it so hard

that noraa wall is pure omgus

I believe myself to be something of an expert on the Noraa reads wall now.

People pushing Noraa ->
Adorable(newbtown), Fidget(scum), Flea(town), Hopkirk(soft town / null), LLD(scum but admits to not thinking clear), Murder(scum), Pooky(null), Shelly(scum), UNOwen(null)

People defending Noraa ->
Mush (town), Tayl0r(town)

She trends towards viewing her attackers unfavorably and vice versa, yes. Interestingly enough, the reads I had the most trouble understanding (Adorable, Flea) were townreads she gave out to those on her wagon. I believe she is not thinking clearly on her LLD and Murder reads regardless of alignment.

To answer your question, I do still see the possibility. I'm maybe 65% on scum. I have a terrible track record reading you and Noraa, although I have found that generally Noraa being more uncertain is +town for her. I don't think she had the chance to exhibit that this game, too many emotional distractions.

In post 1703, Gloria Cleary wrote:I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

In post 1704, shellyc wrote:

In post 1703, Gloria Cleary wrote:I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

gloria cleary are you an alt

I'll post less oneliners and more walls so people dont have trouble keeping up
--

why is titus/isis town? are you doing the consensus TR thing as well
why do you think you're useless
why would you sheep titus and mush in particular and not your other TRs

In post 1705, Gloria Cleary wrote:

In post 1704, shellyc wrote:

In post 1703, Gloria Cleary wrote:I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

gloria cleary are you an alt

I'll post less oneliners and more walls so people dont have trouble keeping up
--

why is titus/isis town? are you doing the consensus TR thing as well
why do you think you're useless
why would you sheep titus and mush in particular and not your other TRs

I don’t need to respond to these individually because some of my answers will make others obvious. I have meta on Titus and she came into the thread with no apparent agenda which looks like town!Titus to me. She’s asking more questions than trying to push anything. Isis gets kind of weird as scum and she didn’t seem weird to me. Wrt to LLD, I’m still null on you. You’re last post was really good but some of your earlier ones leave me scratching my head. You can tr a slot and not be confident in sheeping them and I tend to have the most faith in slots that are not tunnelled unless I’m confidently mindmelding with them. Like if I have reads that contradict either/both I’ll go with my own but I’m a fan of how they’re both appoaching this game.

In post 1663, shellyc wrote: idk
this post is actually town!AI and vibing with my own thoughts
adorable is not locktown but they're def not a good wagon

In post 1708, UNOwen wrote:Shelly, do you honestly, sincerely, hand on heart, vibe with the thoughts expressed in 1549?

In post 1709, UNOwen wrote:Adorable's spiderweb accusation against me which connected together posts from three different players was pretty earnest, which could suggest newbtown. I think it will be possible to get a more solid read there as they post more.

In post 1710, shellyc wrote: I don't reeeaaaaaally vibe with hard TR theta because im having a townlean-ish there aorn but the rest of that looks good

In post 1714, shellyc wrote: theta is a tone/gut read because the content is not mind-blowing in that iso

In post 171, Toogeloo wrote:Vault dweller...scum?

That's pretty out there. What is it in their 4 posts that has you leaning scum?

In post 315, Toogeloo wrote:You distancing now, Swift?

Unvote;
Vote; Noraa

In post 102, Toogeloo wrote:When I first read my role pm, I thought it was a mod slip lol.

In post 60, shellyc wrote:i think town are much more likely to read the setup tbh

You put way too much faith in town. I think the opposite actually. Town are more likely to be complacent while scum are more likely to read rules so they can put IIoA into their posts and scheme without hunting.

Vote: Pooky

Because it makes them happy. But I can get behind the Noora train. While I disagree with using the sign up thread or discord to scum hunt, it's still worth pushing.

In post 341, Toogeloo wrote:What exactly pinged your gut? It was only 4 posts at the time, I'm curious.

In post 338, Toogeloo wrote:I asked for expansion of reasoning for Vault dweller and never got it.

In post 888, Toogeloo wrote:I think the best way to get LLD to do something different is to just be done with Noraa so we can move on with our lives.

In post 897, Toogeloo wrote:No one's letting LLD do whatever the fuck she wants (though I personally don't care if she does whatever the fuck she wants).

You got caught saying something you probably should have not said. No one is going to let that go. It's a great place to start the game. There are no power roles in this game, so you aren't worth protecting by anyone, town or scum. Accept your fate, start working with us on who you'll pass the scroll to
and why, so that that person can start formulating a plan that works with town's will as well.

In post 939, Toogeloo wrote:You're a detriment to town's win condition this game, Noraa. You're just too stubborn to realize it. There is 0% chance you live past flip 1. It's increasingly worse that talking to you is pointless because no one else exists outside of LLD to you.

In post 1606, Toogeloo wrote:I'll see you all tomorrow.

In post 226, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 219, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ok lets sort those slots and loop back to noraa later on in the day. people are wayyyy too confident for page 10. this is not a good push.

I mean, I am using the wagon to sort others as well. I think it will be very useful for that.

In post 1244, MURDERCAT wrote:I know I've just been going with the flow, but here's some of my hot takes. I don't understand all the tip toeing, this isn't like a normal setup where town has to stop talking once we flip someone. There's still scenarios where Noraa flips town and I'd rather have time after that first Noraa "flip" and after we have more info to come to a decision about flips 2 and 3. Also this is like the most fun setup to get miselimed in so I don't really understand why town Noraa would be so upset, but whatever. I think odds of hitting 2 scum day 1 are higher if we flip Noraa scum and get LLD confirmed early than if we try to go backdoor, and I think if we flip 2 scum today we win outright. I don't think town Noraa venges LLD out of spite. If this is town Noraa I want to know sooner rather than later.

In post 953, MURDERCAT wrote:Town Noraa probably does get this frustrated but I'm not convinced scum Noraa doesn't fake it and we 100% have to flip Noraa at this point regardless. So Noraa if you actually are town please take a step back from the game and come back ready to find scum instead of just yelling at LLD.

In post 1584, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 1582, Titus wrote:This sounds like Noraa is just an angry emotional player. I'd be run up half my games with this standard. Do you not believe the case?

I'm currently at about 70% chance of Noraa scum. The problem is that Noraa is an emotional player and did have a very strong emotional reaction. But I also respect her scum game enough to believe that she would use that in her favor and she recently said that she fakes townslips in all her scum games.

In post 134, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 123, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Bell are you coaching Noraa in the scum PT you sly dog you? :3

I'm willing to roll with Bell and Noraa being lockscum based on this just for memes

In post 283, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 268, Noraa wrote:Theres a thing called luck. Luck played in big time that game. My partner accidentally nokilled and that ultimately lead to our victory. Without that along with another player's lurking due to rl, you really think I could've won that game?

Noraa not taking credit for a win looks bad to me

In post 762, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 353, shellyc wrote:why is murder town btw, entrance doesn't really ping either way

I'm town for immediately jumping on Noraa with no remorse when she flips scum, but also because memes

In post 1703, Gloria Cleary wrote:I’ve now read over 50+ pages of this game but everytime, I believe I’m finally caught up, there’s at least 10 more. So what I think so far is Mush, LLD. Isis and Titus for town. I really don’t know who’s scum yet. I will probably be useless until D2 or 3, so I might just sheep Mush/Titus until I get some clarify.

In post 605, Lapsa wrote:Frankly speaking - this game's a garbage so far.

To an extent of people openly claiming scum and getting away with that.

In post 1536, Lapsa wrote:VOTE: Noraa

In post 1675, Bell wrote:Yeah, WIM means you want to win. Which as either town or scum is a compliment!

In post 1685, Fidget wrote:Noraa, why do you feel obligated to try so hard in this game?

In post 1542, Tayl0r Swift wrote:does anyone else feel like alpine's reads are pretty artificial?

for example he says "ever since this post i guess i scumread noraa"
a townie would say "ever since rereading i scumread noraa"

In post 1546, Hectic wrote:

Titus replaces VaultDweller! Give her the welcome of warmest.

In post 1690, Bell wrote:I never see posts like the one fidget just made come from town. Ever.
Why do I have so many scum reads this game.

In post 1691, Tayl0r Swift wrote:

In post 1687, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you made plenty of posts after I offered the trade and me going 2nd is the only way the town consensus on Noraa gets enforced.

i think most people have noraa as maybe town now. she needs to be flipped, but not so much that we give you second shot. if i go first im shooting a lurker slot or a scum slot other than you.

In post 1693, shellyc wrote:

In post 1666, Fidget wrote:Well, I guess I'd have to ask you what about it strikes you as towny. Do you know?

sometimes its kinda hard to explain tone but that tone reeks of newbtown, and the UNO/noraa logic vibes with my own logic (UNO forcedly bussing noraa)

In post 1709, UNOwen wrote:Noraa's read list was interesting enough, but she is very

capable of high effort as scum in this situation

. It's a bit mean if she is town but we are in a game state where there appears to actually be an overwhelming majority that thinks she is scum so I believe the best way forward is to clarify that at the first opportunity. Going through the process of cursing two players while this is hanging over the game does not seem a very smart idea.

Adorable's spiderweb accusation against me which connected together posts from three different players was pretty earnest, which could suggest newbtown. I think it will be possible to get a more solid read there as they post more.

In post 1554, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like how much more of this trolling are we allowing TS to do

In post 1558, UNOwen wrote:

In post 1525, Theta Alpine wrote: 254 this feels like it was premeditated
i mean seriously it feels like this exchange between noraa and adorable was planned out ahead of time
why is a self-proclaimed newbie attacking adorable and effectively daring them to vote themselves
and not attacking hopkirk who had placed a blank vote
or unowen who had an rvs vote

Yes exactly. Noraa is not a fool, if she fears that she has been caught and is 100% going down then I believe her instinct would be to perform some sort of distancing with one of her partners. The highlighting of the Adorable post was pretty strong considering the context of Noraa getting swarmed that was going on. "Theres so many questions that I get when I see this post that I am definitely SRing you for it. I think I'd actually like to place my vote here bc I want to put some pressure on you." sounds like a very calculated statement, not naturally worded at all. Noraa later follows up with declaring she would give the scroll to Adorable too. However at no point does Noraa reach out to other players to support the Adorable vote, which I think she would if town and convinced she had identified a clearly scummy player hopping on the wagon. That she has this reaction to Adorable but is apparently not alarmed about the way I have lazily sat on her wagon (unlike both shelly and taylor) has further suggested to me that something is up.

On Adorable, she is busy and it is not clear that she has completely caught up so perhaps there will be better information later. But the vote was awkward as anything, independent of Noraa's alignment. Noraa is right that the whole "I don't understand why Noraa is defensive?" was a scummy question to ask. The implication is clear but instead of just stating a suspicion and acting on it there is a smoke screen of questioning to build up to the vote. Then immediately in 277 the facade drops, Adorable thinks Noraa is sus and declares she would give the scroll to Noraa. This looks like scum attempting to find their way onto a wagon.

In post 1623, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:This is Taylor being 95% Confident I'm Scum:

Spoiler:

In post 1148, Tayl0r Swift wrote:

In post 1144, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:but you'd still rather hit LLD with the scroll instead of Pooky-Scum? yea ok taylor good story

i want to hit both of you. but i only get one shot, and lld is a disaster for town, while you just arent a member of town.

In post 1296, Tayl0r Swift wrote:people who are scum:
pookyx10000

In post 1319, Tayl0r Swift wrote:im 95% confident in saying that pooky is scum and isis is town here.

In post 1341, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ooky is a strange one to read. i think the best, perhaps the only way to read pooky is by ignoring most of the words pooky says, and instead look at what pooky is trying to say, and gaze into pooky's soul. in this case my read isnt so much based on specific posts pooky made, but the way pooky has oriented himself in the thread.

1. pooky is canadian. canadians are scum
2. pooky is being more aggressive than town!pooky ever is
3. there are some interactions i would expect from town!pooky that im not seeing
4. pooky is not scumhunting, but is being manipulative, and has attached himself to the hip of the self proclaimed town leader (and fellow canadian, see point 1 above).

After I offer her 1:1 in this post:

In post 1472, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:im actually thinking

Taylor - > Pooky -> Noraa would be a pretty damn good scroll pass

it's radio silence from Taylor. She knows T - > P -> N is a disaster for her scum team and she just disengages and starts poking at someone else.

if she was actually town and 95% confident she'd be all aboard

In post 1632, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:There is a difference between town mindset this game and scum mindset.

Town WANT to trade 1:1 for scum and blow them up to kingdom come.

Scum WANT to survive and hide until endgame.

You trying to spin this as "suicidal stupidity" is downright ludicrious.

In post 1639, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:I'm not bothering to recap thoughts on the utter chaos that happened in my absence. If I'm skipping questions, get to me before 12AM CST.

I'll tell you my reads are mostly the same, except I'm willing to stuff Hopkirk into null. (I don't like the content, but the readable posts help. I'll need more time to determine my thoughts on what the content says for Hopkirk's alignment.)

I do like Titus. The aggression mixed into the curiosity is pinging me as town -- it reminds me of my high pressure pushes.

I'll also say that I think Pooky is super scummy and while I would love to save Tayl0r or doomed Noraa from the curse, Pooky is a great trade because they've been dodging deep inspection because of the town leader (who I think has been pocketed) running interference all game long. Noraa is doomed regardless, and Tayl0r's going to be hard to fit into everyone's townbloc and could create issues with town coalescence as a result, so we get game progression and easier reads for the folks who aren't getting what I'm getting from Tayl0r and Noraa.

Here's a funny little thing about Pooky: we've discussed the dangers of leashing scroll-passes, we decided that a Noraa leash was an acceptable compromise (well, not for me but I agree with the logic of the argument if I was scumreading Noraa), and then Pooky proposes a fully locked down chain of scroll-passing. I'm not sure if this is more likely to come from town who is not paying much attention to what they're doing, or more likely to be gambiting scum to retain their safe position, but I don't like it either way. (Another possibility is that it's scum playing a double layered gambit, presuming that Tayl0r has a spicier, townier target she'll take first if she does accept the scroll. See the Tayl0r vs LLD thing.)

In post 2158, Noraa wrote:

Spoiler:

This post was written Friday night. I didn't check the thread until after shelly was hammered and didn't read up until my full reread on the game that night.

Rereading the entire thread here are my thoughts:

Datisi putting pressure on me over me saying he needed to justify his vote if it wasn't a rvs vote is strange. It's very strange bc in general votes need to be justified and putting pressure on a newb and making them feel like they weren't supposed to ask is just not rubbing the right way. Questioning my use of the terms antitown and scummy was definitely strange as well. Datisi's whole "let Bm look like the one tunneling while adding some pressure on Noraa "was a really really strange approach that doesn't strike me as towny ngl.


Bm being condescending and provocative doesn't seem to be AI. I meta dived or technically I literally read like the tiniest bit of his first game on site back in 2007 and people called him condescending and provocative. I think this may just be personality/playstyle so as much as I'm still a bit salty, I will try to be open minded about this when rereading.

Bob came in and joined in putting pressure on me. So alright I admit after the first few days of day one, I in a way, kinda stopped trying. I felt greatly discouraged and honestly just wanted to replace out. However rereading I personally do not think I was being antitown or scummy at the time as I had not given up on the game that early. So anyone that joined in putting pressure on me is definitely in my slight scum lean list.

Bm's whole thing about not liking to lie and not caring about anyone's opinion except his own is a strange post to make day 1. It's just very .... strange and I dont understand why scum or town would say something like this tbh.

So Bob continues to be active but not inputting much useful info. It seems he is siding with bm in the bmvnoraa thing but is mostly dealing in fluff anyways. he is not trying to get too involved and is trying to extend rvs in a way.

Mena popping in and saying BmvNoraa, something that happened in the first 5 pages, is TvS is VERY scummy. I absolutely hate that. It almost feels like scum TMIing and trying to set up two mislims bc they know both bm and I are town. If bm is Mena's scum partner, he wouldn't say that. this is why Mena and BM aren't scum together imo. Mena's flipflopping between me and bm is concerning as well.

Post #166 was when I started giving up. Everything before post 166 was when I believe I was giving this game my normal which is a ton a ton of attention and thought. After this I was considering just lurking or replacing out because I was pretty upset about how things were playing out and felt low-key bullied over nothing cuz as I said, I gave it my normal and the responses I got weren't nice especially from bm. Btw dont tell me wanting to lurk or replace out is scummy bc I seriously was upset about it. I have zero games, finished or ongoing where I actively lurk. My post counts are generally the highest and I'm spammy as hell normally. This game truly upset me and there's nothing more to that.

Taylor comes in and immediately takes my side which I can definitely see as trying to pocket. Taylor has been in games with me and I think anyone thats been in a game with me before can 100% tell that I was actually quite upset. And since I'm a pretty emotionally driven person, when I'm upset is the perfect time for scum to come pocket.

Back to Mena. Mena's Fos on BM just looks OMGUSy to me. The change to me isn't well justified either. I think the flip floppiness is actually a town tell as the entire thing was quite confusing if I do say so myself. towns reaction should be confusion imo. I was in it myself so I got a different view on things but I think a normal townies reaction should be to be confused. Mena is in my town book for townie confusion.

Post 199 feels town. Taylor was JKer in one of the games I finished with her. I'm getting the same vibes from there here so Taylor is in my early town book as well for meta reasons. Another thing is that Taylor seems quite a bit emotionally driven this game and that is 100% a town tell for her.

Piis entrance strikes me as town here. The post covers a little bit of everything, had some good reasons, didn't tunnel or focus on anything specifically yet, and had a nice summary. Pii in my early town book as well for this very towny sounding first post.

TGP's entrance is a terrible look. It reeks of scumminess. TGP thinks tunneling is scummy whereas I actually am fairly certain that tunneling is actually something town unintentionally does. TGP also calls me confident when all of my reads are very uncertain and very not confident. I feel like this is scum just twisting everything up to make some scumtells out of nothing.

Shelly I honestly felt was pretty scummy this round but I will not state anything on her since we already got a flip and she was town.

Alonzo is one of the people that caught my attention even in my ~salty~ phase and still is in my town book. The reasoning is that most his perspectives I think are much more likely to come from town than scum. The mena SR coming in wasn't scummy bc scums easiest thing to do is choose one out of {Bm, Noraa} and yeet them to hell. Alonzo's unvote soon after makes me really like thinking of that slot as town bc I also started off SRing mena but then TRing.

Teacher's entrance is a load of fluff which is an interesting take considering we moved out of rvs pretty fast and he was a bit late entering. The more you see of teacher, the more towny he seems. He moves into good questions really fast and almost all of his questions prompt or try to prompt good discussion that move the game forward. Town book. Strong TR.

Ico's entrance was ... interesting and gave me a null read on them but then their switch from mena to me and then off of me was very scummy. I felt like Ico came in and tried to pocket me(defends me all over the place despite saying they didn't want to take a defensive stance on me) but then realized I was great limbait and decided to start setting me up to be the day 1 lim. Ico pushes that NoraavBM is TvT but then flips and calls me scum. Idk I dont like the flip flopping.

Datisi focuses on me too much. His ISO reflects it and I find it scummy. It looks like very low-key tunneling that hidden really well.

iamausername is a null read. Idk not much to say there. Their reads r interesting takes and I generally agree with them but I'm not feeling immense towniness here so I think they belong in null.

Bob lurks a lil. cherry picks interesting things to reply to.

Datisi tunnels quite a bit imo. I think he'll go to my town lean for that.

TGP's switch from Noraa to BM is terrible. I hatehatehatehate. Switch to shelly over one post is scummy as well. Sheeps some newbtown reads on me. Strong SR now. Backtracks and says the TR on me is weak and I basically shouldn't question it otherwise it'll disappear. The post was a bit of a "threat" TGP is also very fence sitty as shown in post 650.

Bob clings to BMvNoraa. Reasserts my slight scum lean. He never tries to solve anything else.

see posts like 630 are why I dislike BM.

I admit I got a bit tired rereading so I ended up skimming a lot of the in between pages. 84 pages is a lot and it took me ~3 hours to read it all even when more than half was skimmed.

Scum:

Ico, Bob, Datisi, BM, TGP (in no particular order)

Null:

Iamausername

Town:
Mena, Taylor, Pii/Bunno, Alonzo, Teacher (in no particular order)


Most scum: TGP(even tho their posts got better later)

Most town: Alonzo/Teacher

Added on Sunday:
Holy fuck that flash wagon on Taylor... y'all literally hammered before I took one look at the thread. I logged onto ms and saw mod's pm that day 2 had started, checked the thread and it was locked. I thought mod hadn't opened thread yet until I saw the thread was night phase and Taylor was limmed in a literal 3 pages or something. Bm is confscum so that's our lim today but even tho its decided, we have to talk things thru bc we already mislimmed twice and wasted away day 2's time. We can't let scum!BM self hammer and waste our discussion time.