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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 pm
by mastina
In post 1689, fireisredsir wrote:this is exactly what your approach looks like tho
I am not Lukewarm tho.

Tells that apply to one player do not apply to another.

Me? I get accused of deciding what reads I want to push literally every game (no seriously, it's literally. every. game. Without fail)--even from players calling me town for doing it. It ain't a tell for me. (Or even if it was, probably actually a towntell.)

Lukewarm on the other hand? It IS a tell for
him
.

It's incredibly disingenuous as fuck for you to suggest my point on Lukewarm is invalid by saying I do the thing that I already said is a
specific to Lukewarm
tell. Me doing it carries an entirely different meaning to Lukewarm doing it and it is Lukewarm doing it which makes him scum.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:06 pm
by mastina
In post 1695, Uncrowned wrote:is that the entire basis for the scumread?
Respectfully, Ircher's already dead. I don't really want to reveal how I read him correctly in full, so that next time we play, he hasn't had the chance to fully adapt. :P

Like, he'll certainly try to. But the more info I give him, the better he'll be; the less info I give him, the less he'll be able to.

I don't see the benefit in outing my exact process on a scum who's already dead.
In post 1698, Uncrowned wrote:so it's a tonal read, mostly?
Actually I'd say "tonal read, partially". Tone
is
part of it, but it's also
formatting
. And content. And process. Lukewarm as town has a certain method of operations that in a sense usually has a wind-up to the a-ha moment. That's absent here. The tone is wrong, the formatting is wrong, the content/process is wrong, because his style as town has that level of build-up, whereas here he's just posting without it.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:10 pm
by Vivax
I believe there‘s decent reasons to listen to both camps here.
You having RCE in the PoE while a wagon is available and simply refusing to vote anyone but Roden is just weird to me.
Both players you should be able to read just as fine, or no? Why this supertunnel then. Reads like lack of flexibility a town should have. You don‘t really re-evaluate no matter what he says

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:20 pm
by mastina
In post 1221, mastina wrote:
Spoiler: prior
In post 1218, mastina wrote:LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart}
{PenguinPower} (almost part of above)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Andresvmb, furtiveglance, Ausuka}

SOFT TOWN:
{Klick}

{Malakittens, Titus}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}
Vivax, jjh, and Something_Smart are all locktown for different, but closely linked, reasons. They have all shown a towntell that I believe demonstrates they
cannot
be scum here and absolutely must be town. All look town to me by play anyway, but that tell has me convinced each of them is town.

PenguinPower
is almost up there, because I believe PP spotted
half
of what I saw on S_S, but not the half which makes S_S town. S_S towntold in a way that cannot be scum, but if you saw only half of it, you'd think the opposite, that S_S spewed himself as scum. I have to be quite tight-lipped about this to not reveal what it is tho, but I think that PP seeing half makes him town.

Ydrasse
,
Uncrowned
, and
Andresvmp
are purely play-based reads without the secret towntell present. I'm still sticking to this being Ydrasse's towngame. It's weaker than before, but Ydrasse radiated town earlier in a way I don't think is scum. Uncrowned's content has constantly been town. I've loved Andres's D2 posting (some in particular), and there's not enough room on a scumteam for both him and Malakittens so Malakittens trusting him is enough to bolster him to here regardless of Malakittens's alignment. He should always be town here and I
see
it.

furtiveglance
I initially had a tier below, but I decided after thinking about the people townreading furtive today's reasons, that I agreed with them. Was town D1 in an incredibly town way and I think is still worthy of the locktown tier today.

Ausuka
I had as below furtive but still at hard-town, yet I've decided to move Ausuka here after reviewing my reason for townreading Ausuka before, and I feel it still holds. Ausuka's play is incredibly anti-partner with Ircher in a way genuinely anti-partnery and with towntells that I believe are genuinely towntells. The whole exchange just looks town.

Klick
looks to be playing town, but not quite as strongly as others. It looks like what I'd expect from him as town, but I don't know what he looks like as scum. He's reasonable, he's making good posts, so his content is definitely town-sounding at the least, but I've no metric to guarantee it is the same way as I do my stronger reads.

Malakittens
would be locktown if not for a couple factors.
The first is that Malakittens was off the wagon, where I expect there to be 1-2 scum.
The second is that both the scum nightkills (confirmed to be Nero/peta per Vivax claiming the BBT vig) are the two players I would expect Mala to nightkill if she were scum. Nero wasn't widely townread, but Malakittens is one of the few players to know of Nero back in his glory days of when he was his most dangerous. Nero also knows Malakittens pretty well I'm pretty sure, so of all the players in the game, she has more incentive than almost any other to kill him.
Similarly so for petapan. I've never seen his towngame in full-swing before, but allegedly, it's pretty damn good from what I'm told. (I believe it, it's just that I've personally never seen it.) This means that basically anyone could/would kill him, but for some reason I seem to recall that peta/Malakittens have some sort of history too which if this memory is correct would make Mala want to kill him.

These factors keep Malakittens from being locktown, but she's still more likely town than not on her strength of play. It's purely NKA/VCA that implicates she
could
be scum and I trust my scumhunting-by-play tools more than I trust my NKA/VCA tools.

Titus
is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does
not
match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

RCEnigma
has been null the entire game, but at this stage, 'null' with this many players with compelling reasons to be town is quite possibly indicative of scum.
He's not been strongly present in a way suggesting town. His content is highly forgettable. When he is town, I expect to remember his posts, and to have a lot of them be agreeable. But while he's making some reasonable reads, his posts overall feel lackluster. He's someone that it's easy to forget is in the game, which is a red flag indicative of possible scum.

fireisredsir
fits as the scum off the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. I feel Vivax caught a good scumslip from fire, and fire just gives off the vibe of being scum. There's plenty of small things that add up here.

Lukewarm
fits as the scum on the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. Though on D2 I'm sensing more stylistic similarities to Lukewarm's towngame, the D2 content is highly pro-scum in nature, looking to be scum that is in a tight spot and is trying to figure out a way to avoid a town sweep.

Roden
is scum ten times over in ten different ways. I'm never voting elsewhere, not even to vote another scumread. I'm not gonna lie, it ain't as strong as Ircher, but it's
pretty damn close
. If Ircher was 99% scum, then Roden is like 97%. I'll be honest tho, the main difference in that 2% is essentially, "I never catch two scum in a row. I always think I do, but I never
actually
do. I caught Ircher so I couldn't have genuinely caught a second, could I?"
Because by every other metric, yeah Roden should be as strong a scumread as Ircher. Genuinely the only reason Roden is weaker is that paranoia of me never normally being this competent.
But I'll go with the theory that I was a PROPHET when I said I'd be a SCUMHUNTING GOD, and that therefore I am indeed accurate here.
LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart, PenguinPower}
{Andresvmb, furtiveglance} (to be clear, this is them moving up, not the others moving down)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Ausuka} (to be clear this is the above moving up, not these moving down)

TOWN:
{Klick}

SOFT TOWN:
{Titus}

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN ABOVE AND BELOW TIERS:
{Malakittens}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

I'm confident in locktowning
PenguinPower
here based on his contributions here with everything I've seen here.

Andresvmp
continues to be looking better and better, looking more and more town, and I trust Malakittens's read there regardless of Mala's alignment.
furtiveglance
continues to be looking better, looking more and more town.

The other locktown remain locktown, just not having recently contributed much.

Klick
is doing much I think to be town, but not in a quality that makes me absolutely
sure
he's town. He's doing all town things, it's just that I don't know his scum capabilities and he's not posting as much as the others who I am confident in their townness.

Titus
would be much higher up based on the players pushing her and her meta, but there's a strength of read thing going on. She's not so much a weak townread so much as it is that all the others are just that much stronger townreads.

Malakittens
has VCA and NKA implicating her and her contributions have mostly been saying Andres is town, so she's not doing all of much. However, while it's definitely possible she's scum if 2/4 of my scumreads are town, I don't really think she is right now; her content still looks town to me.

RCEnigma
is doing basically nothing. And for him, that is concerning. His reads look good, but his content? Not so much. He's only not scum because I have three stronger reads pretty much.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:24 pm
by mastina
In post 1702, Vivax wrote: You don‘t really re-evaluate no matter what he says
Why re-evaluate a right read into a wrong one?

I am always re-evaluating my reads but every time I come to the conclusion that Roden is far more likely to be scum than town.
Could
I be wrong? Yeah! But I don't think I AM wrong. It's play and claim. Just one would be suspicious; both in tandem heavily implies the read is right. Nothing Roden has done has made me think he's town. He's posted things that have made me go, "okay, I can see how if Roden is town, these were signs of it". But not signs that are town.

I'm not sure if that makes sense. Basically, if Roden is town then from his posts I'll be able to see it in hindsight, but with Roden alive now I don't see it because the town posts are too weak compared to the overall scumness present if that makes sense. Like, yeah, I see how he
could
be town, but from everything I have seen, I don't think he actually is town.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
by jjh927
Do you have an opinion comparing Roden right now to GNG upick

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:36 pm
by mastina
In post 1705, jjh927 wrote:Do you have an opinion comparing Roden right now to GNG upick
It's not a match imo. I can see the vaguest of vague similarities in the "well I'm not telling" play on the day Roden got eliminated, but the nature of Roden's content there compared to here doesn't match up. What Roden was doing outside of the stubbornness in regards to the claim was different, and Roden was still a lot less opaque that game.

Yeah he still lied, and refused to admit it, but he was still a lot more open and engaging. He was doing far more than this game. He was still being strong. He was still being town. Here he's just...not.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:38 pm
by jjh927
I will say I don't think there are any abilities in the game that aren't one-use that don't have increasing costs per use, unless anyone would like to claim otherwise

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:51 pm
by Uncrowned
In post 1701, mastina wrote:I don't see the benefit in outing my exact process on a scum who's already dead.
because it looks a little fabricated considering the differences between his town page 1 vote and his scum page 1 vote are awfully minimal?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:57 pm
by jjh927
Roden's initial claim containing a bunch of lies is not great combined with the current claim but I do think it's very similar to GNG upick in terms of how he's behaved here. That being said, it doesn't escape me that in GNG upick much of the cageyness was influenced by him feeling guilty over playing to an anti-town bonus wincon

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:10 pm
by jjh927
In post 1244, Roden wrote:I'm never gonna understand why I'm always like this as town or what I'm doing wrong

The modifier makes the person that I message able message me back the next night for free. That's it, there's nothing else to claim.
Like, this is such a messy thing to refer back to and be like "I fullclaimed"

This reads as "The person I message is able to message me back for free", not "The modifier is free"



But that just seems to be poor communication and Roden refusing to clarify things thereafter, and my gut is very confidently saying Roden is town in a way I can't ignore

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:28 am
by Datisi
vote count 2.06

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).


firing
Roden [6]:
mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens, Ydrasse
Titus [3]:
Roden, Lukewarm, Vivax
Something_Smart [3]:
PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned
RCEnigma [2]:
furtiveglance, fireisredsir

not voting [3]:
jjh927, RCEnigma, Something_Smart


mod notes~ this is a mod note.


flavourImage


flavour
now playing...
Dalmatino - Dvi sestre blizanke

▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  2:29 / 4:24

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:33 am
by Datisi
prodding RCEnigma.

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:37 am
by furtiveglance
Roden, is it 5% with a 0% modifier or does the base thing cost 0%?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:42 am
by furtiveglance
I don't want to a big post at the moment, my brief thoughts are that calling Lukewarm/Mastina T/T feels like a weirdly ambitious read to make but that's the most likely scenario for me. Andres/Uncrowned/Vivax are my most confident townreads.
Voting wise, I can sense I'm not getting my way with RC. I'd just like to queue up RC, Malakittens and Ausuka as wagons in the coming days. Maybe Penguin as well, we'll see.

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:56 am
by Uncrowned
these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:09 am
by furtiveglance
In post 1715, Uncrowned wrote:these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game
still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually. I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:28 am
by Lukewarm
In post 1668, mastina wrote:{Lukewarm, Roden, RCEnigma} are the three players I would most expect to kill peta (admittedly, per peta's reputation, everyone has reason to kill peta, it's just that these are the players I'd MOST expect to)
I doubt I ever kill peta here, unless my partners are either of Vivax and Titus. But you are arguing that they are both town and that I am scum.

He literally called me locked town on an Ircher scum flip, and had not yet explained it. He also had vivax and Titus as his strongest scum reads.

I don't kill that slot in the world that you are perpetrating to believe is the the world that we are in. I wait until night 2.

The rest of every thing that Mastina said about me feels like lots and lots of walls of text to say the vibes are off, so :shurg:

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:37 am
by Uncrowned
In post 1716, furtiveglance wrote:I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored.
yeah but that just seems like town signalling (idk if that's the right phrase for it) instead of just, pushing the slots?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:43 am
by furtiveglance
In post 1718, Uncrowned wrote:
In post 1716, furtiveglance wrote:I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored.
yeah but that just seems like town signalling (idk if that's the right phrase for it) instead of just, pushing the slots?
Yeah I feel a bit powerless about today's vote.

VOTE: Malakittens

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:45 am
by Uncrowned
VOTE: Malakittens

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:49 am
by Lukewarm
In post 1688, mastina wrote:I was quite aware of when I pushed Ircher that if I was right it'd look like Control. So I'd be the first to admit that. I was aware from pretty much the second I voted Ircher, "if he's scum people are going to compare this to Control".
I would like to be clear, that my point was NOT that it looks like The Single Game Control. My point was that it looks like the way that scum!Mastina, in general, interacts with her scum partners early on.

Here is NQN 2, where she scum lock 1 of her buddies in her first 5 posts, and calls another one of her buddies partnered with that partner she just scum locked.

Spoiler:
In post 426, mastina wrote:
In post 74, Flavor Leaf wrote:Early game is for future me to look over and analyze, not for present me
Scum.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
Policy. :P
In post 428, mastina wrote:
In post 167, Enchant wrote:I am in hood with Flavor and indeed he asking for me.
Scum with Flavor Leaf running an FL gambit. :P
In post 432, mastina wrote:
In post 190, Titus wrote:
In post 185, Tracer Bullet wrote:Titus rolled scum I see
Totally, but why are you saying that? I find it funny (not sure alignment wise) that you're attacking the vote without asking why or defending Ducks.
Town.

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons

Well Done (Dunnstral & Lukewarm)
Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)

Cat Scratch Fever

tictac
MegAzumarill

catboi

Sword of Ducks
Menalque
Wallflower

momo
cassowary
The Keeper
MalcolmTucker
Tracer Bullet



Klick

bnuuy


Enchant

butterchurn
=
Flavor Leaf
=
MonkeyMan576




Locktown of Locktown, Locktown, Strong Town, honestly-just-assuming-town, lean-town, null, lean scum, scumread, Scum.
Color is mind, red are her partneres | Green is not her partners, was mutliball, so they are not all town. But from her POV they would have been equivalent.

This next one is much later in the day, but also makes it more clear that she really does double down on it
In post 3540, mastina wrote:FL and Enchant are hard-bound together; those two are always scum together.
And even opening up day 2, she is still going hard on calling FL scum
In post 5921, mastina wrote: VOTE: Flavor Leaf
-Still scum,
-Still alive,
-I don't care about FL's claim, the prior to are more important,
-He has a wagon on him

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:51 am
by Lukewarm
@untowned The NQN example might make it more clear why I did not reference everyone she called scum this game. Because in that game she had 4 scum reads, 2 of them were town.

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:59 am
by Ydrasse
idle thought if roden flips town there’s mafia in the people who doubled down on him after he was being stubborn as an acceptable reason to kill him

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:03 am
by furtiveglance
In post 1723, Ydrasse wrote:idle thought if roden flips town there’s mafia in the people who doubled down on him after he was being stubborn as an acceptable reason to kill him
no points for this idle thought, too level 1