Mafiascum.net

Ok


What is your read on Grimgroove?
Did you have scumreads on SC or Grim when Majiffy made the challenge on them?


Why did you think I was scummy pre trollhammer yesterday?
Would you be willing to challenge Green tomorrow if you are wrong about Amrun?

No, it's not about getting into arguments. Avoiding those can definitely be good. It's about posting things besides votes, which you're not doing much of without prompting.

If you want to argue semantics about the word "badgering," sure. The point is that you are mostly just voting and answering the odd question to you here and there. You're not voting with reasons; you're not even answering questions with particular purpose. You ARE thinking about the game (I think, anyway), but there's precious little evidence of that, and it's not a good thing for the town.

I am asking you to use your status as widely read town in a game without nightkills to lay on the grease a little bit more, and shake things up, because I know you're capable, instead of throwing down lazy votes and walking away from the thread for a day or two, coming back and tossing down another one. I don't expect you to take this seriously until after I flip, or maybe even at all, but I feel obligated to say it.

In post 1725, AngryPidgeon wrote:

Majiffy

Why did you think I was scummy pre trollhammer yesterday?
Would you be willing to challenge Green tomorrow if you are wrong about Amrun?

You haven't been giving me strong town signals like you usually do.
Yes.

In post 1726, Amrun wrote:No, it's not about getting into arguments. Avoiding those can definitely be good. It's about posting things besides votes, which you're not doing much of without prompting.

Why do I need to post things besides votes, if the course of the game is already going in the direction I want it to? I voted SD; a wagon followed. I get on here, see some scummy posts from you, lo and behold, there's a wagon on you. There's no need for me to add to the discussion.

In post 1726, Amrun wrote: If you want to argue semantics about the word "badgering," sure. The point is that you are mostly just voting and answering the odd question to you here and there. You're not voting with reasons; you're not even answering questions with particular purpose. You ARE thinking about the game (I think, anyway), but there's precious little evidence of that, and it's not a good thing for the town.

It isn't about semantics, it's about you trying to extract towncred from a source where no towncred should be extracted. You asked banal, surface-level questions and then said "Look! I had to you to provide content!", and that's just fucking bullshit.
I clearly am voting with reasons; just because I don't state them doesn't mean they don't exist.
To what purpose must I answer the questions, other than the fact that you're asking them? Now we're back to your banal questions and why the fuck do you expect towncred for 'making' me answer them?

In post 1726, Amrun wrote: I am asking you to use your status as widely read town in a game without nightkills to lay on the grease a little bit more, and shake things up, because I know you're capable, instead of throwing down lazy votes and walking away from the thread for a day or two, coming back and tossing down another one. I don't expect you to take this seriously until after I flip, or maybe even at all, but I feel obligated to say it.

Chaos without reason does not yield positive results. You only shake up the gamestate when you need reactions or need to increase participation levels. Otherwise, it's best to let the game settle and see where everyone lays.

I'm happy with the gamestate and the current scum suspects. I'm going to let it continue on the course it's currently on.

I'm not extracting towncred from anything. There's a 99% chance I'll be dead by the time I wake up tomorrow. I've been actively hoping for it for days now, in fact, because I'm sick of this game. (I've been fighting to do my duty and I feel bad for wanting to be lynched, but, y'know, that's life.) This has nothing to do with me, and it's not something I'd say outside of this situation where I am practically already dead anyway.

I think that you, personally, can have a better impact on the game, especially after I die. I was most distressed to see that you are not even going to re-evaluate when I flip town, despite the fact that you are wrong about me, and that SHOULD AFFECT how you see the game. It should MATTER. I don't expect it to matter until you see my name in green, but AFTER THAT, it should fucking matter. I was hoping that it would, to you, so I can feel better about dying here. I think AP will continue to evaluate things, and that's good. Wisdom will continue to evaluate things, but he comes up with some harebrained fucking shit. You, on the other hand, might become entrenched in your reads and overwhelmed by the level of posting in this game (totally understandable, it's p insane), but I think you have the ability to take charge more, and I think the town would benefit if you did. So I was hoping you would take this, after I die, and think about it.

Actually I think the level of posting in this game is fairly manageable.

Lets talk about my scumreads; where do you disagree, aside from yourself? Because you must disagree if you're so desperate for me to re-evaluate when you flip town.

In post 1729, Majiffy wrote:Actually I think the level of posting in this game is fairly manageable

I've been constantly behind. When I made tht comment about 10 pages of bullshit, I realized I'd rather be spending time reading shit I missed but I keep getting caught up in a whirlwind of walls and circlejerking.

See, that's exactly the sort of thing... /sigh

I just laid out my reads CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR. Why would you need to ask that question? You should KNOW.

You don't have grim in your scumreads. That's a major fucking problem because he is scum as fuck.

We have common ground in the SD slot (and yes, qwintz has improved it), but Elyse is town. Wisdom is town.

Mollie is scum. You don't seem to be very willing to entertain the idea of her being scum except in the hypothetical, even when AP was trying very hard to get you to consider the possibility. You think my argument with her is "bad," (and it is, in some ways, which is very frustrating for me), but yet if I flip town, you won't even think about it again. That's something you should be looking at again with it in mind that I am town, imho. And knowing that I am town should increase the likelihood of mollie being scum by your own admission re: your conversation with ap, but it won't, re: your conversation with me, and that is imminently annoying.

Yeah and this is why wallwars over stupid shit are anti-town.

Wall wars can be extremely informative. In this game, I have been caught in too many stupid arguments, but getting caught in none is worse, imo. Ideally, there's a better balance, but I've been busy and therefore in a bad mood and more easily distracted.

I think your biggest problem is that you're somehow unable to separate changing reads based on your townflip and changing reads in general. You think just because you flip town, that either my reads should instantly flip, or that I'm somehow stubbornly stuck in my ways and all hope is lost. It's a pathetically naive position to take.

Furthermore;

In post 1731, Amrun wrote:Mollie is scum. You don't seem to be very willing to entertain the idea of her being scum except in the hypothetical, even when AP was trying very hard to get you to consider the possibility. You think my argument with her is "bad," (and it is, in some ways, which is very frustrating for me), but yet if I flip town, you won't even think about it again. That's something you should be looking at again with it in mind that I am town, imho. And knowing that I am town should increase the likelihood of mollie being scum by your own admission re: your conversation with ap, but it won't, re: your conversation with me, and that is imminently annoying.

We have played probably close to 50 games together since she has joined this site. If Mollie is scum, I'll know.

In post 1733, Amrun wrote:Wall wars can be extremely informative. In this game, I have been caught in too many stupid arguments, but getting caught in none is worse, imo. Ideally, there's a better balance, but I've been busy and therefore in a bad mood and more easily distracted.

It doesn't matter how informative they are if it results in non-involved, unmotivated, apathetic townies.

No, that's not what I'm saying. As I already stated, the example with me is just a minor example to the whole game. I don't think you're putting things into perspective (for example, needing to ask me where your reads disagree with mine after VOTING ME), and I wanted to engage you a little bit while I still can.

I wanted some re-assurance that you're actually putting some fucking thought into this, but I'm not really reassured.

And if you're so sure mollie is town, with all this insight into reading her, that's something you should be sharing with the town at this point, because I am not the only person on her ass. She no longer extends that same guarantee to you, for example, and refuses to say why this changed from the beginning of the game to now. If she's town, and you know how to tell, then it's also part of your job to help everyone else see that so they can figure out who is actually not town. I don't see any indication that this will ever happen, and seeing as how she's one of my major scumreads, it's of interest to me and I wanted to see if you could be poked into doing something about it. I'm not holding my breath.

p-edit: The majority of the town is involved and motivated, but yes, I agree.

In post 1731, Amrun wrote:You don't have grim in your scumreads. That's a major fucking problem because he is scum as fuck.

Ya, him ignoring Grim completely made me a little suspicious. Could see Majiffy/{mollie/grim} {qwints??/elyse??} maybe. I really don't see Majiffy ignoring GG and buddying up to Mollie if they are all scum as that would look suspicious as fuck after a GG flip and some town flips from the red/green group.

His opinions on me all game have boiled down to 'gut' which I mean :/. I can only fault you so much for that since thats me half the time, but even pointing out posts that swayed you one way or another would be super helpful.

I also tend to doubt Majiffy is flatout scumreading 3/4 of this lynch group if they are all town as scum.

I really doubt Amrun/Majiffy or Amrun/Wisdom are a pair after today. Amrun/{GG/mollie??}/{elyse/enomis} could make sense.

So basically this all boils down to you being pissed off that I'm voting you, really. You won't admit it, of course, but that's where this all stems from.

I'm not good at meta arguments. The best I can do is tell you to go read her town games and read her scum games. As of yet, she doesn't feel like scum Mollie.

I really make very little sense with GG, objectively.

p-edit: No, it's not about you voting me at all. I can even see that I am a good lynch for town right now to take me out of the suspect pool before lylo, in which I'd be a liability because it would be way too easy to compromise lynch onto me. I just want to be fucking hammered already, actually. But still, I want my team to win and I believe you are on it. Though AP is singing a little siren song to me right now. I must resisssst.

You can self-hammer if you're so desperate to be lynched.

MORAL OBJECTION

can't do it

just can't

Then I have a logical objection to taking anything you say seriously at face-value. It looks an awful lot like trying to AtE your way out of a lynch.

In post 1739, Amrun wrote:Though AP is singing a little siren song to me right now.

Actually any team without GG is wrong because GG is scum and that's obvious. Ugh what are the odds that Majiffy would put 3 scums into the first lynchpool as scum.

Its just insane enough to be viable.

like seriously, i said like 20 times that no one will take it seriously until after I'm dead. -.- I JUST SAID THAT. y u do this

p-edit: i can't even

keep that kool aid away from meeee

In post 1743, AngryPidgeon wrote:

In post 1739, Amrun wrote:Though AP is singing a little siren song to me right now.

Actually any team without GG is wrong because GG is scum and that's obvious. Ugh what are the odds that Majiffy would put 3 scums into the first lynchpool as scum.

Its just insane enough to be viable.

Definitely a ballsy enough gambit for me to do. I do love making the town feast on tasty WIFOM waffles.

I need to go ISO Enomis and GG to remind myself that they are both scum, brb

Ten additional pages and I'm suddenly a top-suspect again?

Lynch Amrun first and you'll see she's been full of bullshit.

Even if we're wrong, she'll be the lynch we learn from the most.

If we're wrong, well, you can try and get my lynched all you want. Amrun's flip will absolve me.

Going to catch up now to see what shit you guys actually have on me!

Amrun, good job pressuring newbtown! (uh-oh, AtE)

I don't think there's much use in quoting Amrun's wall about my behavior during the NS-lynch, but if you read the happenings yourself, you'll see this is a subtle mix between misrep and choosing interpretations of events wisely.

I'll just tell you exactly what happened, with my point of view of town, and that's described in post 1260.

So I'm just going to bother to reply to what Amrun had tos ay about that one, because every comment before that was adressed by this reply.

Amrun said to 1260

He says he didn't vote a town read but he called NS town shortly before voting for him for the first time. He says he didn't have a scum read, despite calling NS scum. He has to go out of his way to explain that NS was nothing but a compromise vote, ever, because it doesn't really make much sense.

This is simply not true.
NS was indeed a null-read. I really don't see how this comes as a surprise, given he had only posted 11 times. If anything is surprising, it's how Elyse basically already seemed to "know" NS wasn't going to flip town, and only after insistance by Wisdom was preprared to consider the thought he wasn't scum, resulting Wisdom to enter Elyse's possbiel scumreads.
But I digress.
So NS was null. Yes, I thought I saw some townishness in his last post, where he said he really had no idea who to call scum anymore and how he was at a complete loss. To me this sounded honest. It gave him townpoints. It didn't make him town. One post like that obviously does not make you town.
I also never called him scum. When removing my vote from Wisdom I said this, in 1239:

I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse

if

you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair

Notice the word in bold.
This choice for moving my vote was me simply being pragmatic about things.
Both were equally possibly scum in my eyes at that point, but given Wisdom's activity you'd know there will be further chances to read him and catch him.
Like many correctly said, what Nobody Secpail had given us at that point, was probably all that he was going to give us even if we had kept him alive.

If anyone has been open about their thought-processes, it's me. I jot everything I'm thinking down, no filter, resulting in lots of posts and lots of walls. This is probably what Amrun was referring to when saying this:

In post 486, Amrun wrote:Oh, and grim, the blood of righteousness has nothing to do with you and saying it did is a huge stretch.

Also I don't mean to imply that you're defenseless. You do, however, fall under a certain category of newer players that behave a certain way (until they gain some experience). You're also pretty sensitive. It has very little to do with you and everything to do with Majiffy's motivations.

I see now how I'm behaving like a newbie under a certain category. I think and I post it. Wisdom falls under a similar category, though I'm not sure he thinks as much as I do, looking at some of his posts. (:mrgreen:, just kidding, sounded funny)
Who is always consistent in their thoughts? Who never changes his mind about something? Exactly.
So yes, it is very easy to make my posts look like someone who is being opportunistic in his ideas, especially when ISO'ing me. But my thoughts are not meant to be read in ISO, they're meant to be read in context. And the context explains perfectly why I change my mind about certain things.
Amrun KNOWS this. And she's trying to cash in on it.

Also look at her 456, and how she feels about picking on the newbie. This is exactly what she's doing here, in her times of distress. How mean.

Grim is an NS buddy. I'll bet my life on it, and at this point, I pretty much want to die because no one will take me seriously until I do. WHEN I FLIP TOWN, DO NOT FORGOT THAT GRIM IS NS' BUDDY. DO NOT FORGET IT. KILL HIM.

If you're talking about your "life" within the realms of this game, I'm very willing to take that bet.
If you're talknig about anything else, I hope for your sake the devil is not listening.

I'm not a betting man so I'll stick to what I think: Amrun just pulled together some scraps of my thoughts and molded them together nicely in an image of me being a waffling scumbag, trying to do everything possible to evade an NS lynch, and then to decide to bus him after all. This is only one interpretation. Amrun knows tihs is an interpretation. Betting her life on something based on a "case" like that, is just a plain and simple AtE. Nothing more.

The thing is, I can't make sense out of any scumteam that doesn't have Amrun in it.

I know this won't be doing much good to my case, but I'm starting to get the creepy feeling we've been giving a free-pass to both Majiffy (his challenge) and AngryPidgeon (his real-life anecdotes) a bit too easily. %Ajiffy admitted to me somewhere he busses his partners hard, so the Nobody Special-lynch doesn't teach us anything in this regard. The man is certainly capable of taking matters in his own hands and directing a game, and considering how we're running out of scum-candidates, tihs might be a sign some attention should be brought back to him. Angry Pidgeon's obsession with me makes me feel very uneasy. It has never been adequatelly backed up.


PS: Did Amrun give her full list of reads yet?

Contniuing the catch-up now.