Prism, I've got the least to say to you right now. My paranoia today was mostly fishing to try to see if anyone would jump on board and push at you, which didn't happen. I will try and sort you again tomorrow if you are still alive for some strange impossible reason that I'm sure could exist, but for the same reason I initially TRed you and you got sus of me because it felt like I was using your playstyle against you or the read was too good or whatever exactly it is (which my dumbass somehow forgot about at the start of day2), I TR you now-faking town cohesion seems real challenging and not +ev as scum, and you've been playing for that the whole game. I am trying to divorce my reads from my TR of you and therefore trust of what you say (I.e. floo read), and will do my best to hunt independent of your takes. If there's something I can do to sort myself better, lmk, but idk what exactly that could be.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:16 pm
by flow trap
In post 1723, quiet wrote:@Flow trap, I have a little less to say to you at the moment. First off, I don't think you need to continue going post by post through the thread, especially over day1, and explain your reads at every point. It's NAI to me. I recognize that you were not being chaotic for the sake of being chaotic, and I am taking on face value what you are saying about what your state of mind was at every given point in the game. I'm less interested in your progression there than I am on your positioning and the positioning of others in the thread on day2 and day3, as that feels like there's a lot more value and weight.
Day 1 is the foundation, so I basically have to start there or else I won't be able to provide as solid reasoning when I hit the conclusion
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:17 pm
by quiet
None of these are really cases. I've got 6 days to do those, but I wanted to give initial thoughts first. As you can tell, I've thought more about the spartian slot than pretty much any other, as flow trap is a trap to think about, stare too long into the warp and lose your mind to chaos type vibe, and floo has less content to read and is mostly relevant to understanding spartian imo. Sorting out the spartian/floo interactions feels like it could seriously help solve the game, and that's where my thoughts have been, as reflected in the amount I have for each person. That's where I'm at for now.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:19 pm
by quiet
In post 1726, flow trap wrote:Day 1 is the foundation, so I basically have to start there or else I won't be able to provide as solid reasoning when I hit the conclusion
I get this, but also, understand that as scum, you could play the way you did then use this chance to clarify your reads to create some kind of narrative.
It seems like a stupidly high effort strategy and I struggle to believe it, but like, it does exist, and makes it hard to TR this.
If this is your process, do your process and come to your conclusions, but at the end of the day, I need help sorting within {you, floo, spartian} right now. Whatever that conclusion is, I hope it addresses those slots in particular.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:20 pm
by quiet
Also day1 was chaos lowkey and got derailed by Enchant, but maybe I'm writing it off too much and need to reconsider.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:22 pm
by flow trap
In post 1723, quiet wrote:I'd also like you to comment on if you think Prism is town or not,
Very towny but in the wise words of Skybep: "Always be suspicious of players who are "cleared" but not eaten"
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:23 pm
by flow trap
Er... I guess NKed on here
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:24 pm
by flow trap
Oh, there is also something in part 3 about Prism
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:28 pm
by flow trap
Speaking of Part 3...
Spoiler:
Pages 21-25:
This is where my internet decided to self-trashcan and wouldn’t load the site, so I had to take a break. Anyways, Prism & I strawman each other, I think. Annoying, but inconclusive. Salsafairy tries to defend themselves on taking a joke seriously, but I’m not really understanding…
In post 34, Enchant wrote:Vanilla Mafia i calling is boring setups like "Just townies and maybe doctor/cop/SK".
Oh, understood. It's a newbie game, so setups are limited. Do you play on big setups?
Meaning they treated it very seriously, considering they went from getting the same joke to treating a misunderstanding like this, this badly, is a bizarre jump.
-2
You gave me
-2
on that which was literally not what you thought/was seemed to you!
In post 33, I thought
Enchant
was still joking (refer: post 11), but in post 34 they explained that they meant newbie game which they find boring and in post 35 I said that I understood them and questioned them if they play big games.... which was totally a normal conversation, nothing game related cause this conversation happened on page 2 when there was nothing important to discuss.
Salsafairy does make a couple of annoyed-sarcastic remarks, but of lesser value. Spartan says a few things on 532/533 that I don’t agree with but I don’t blame them. I don’t know where my head was on 538, so I guess Salsafairy had a right to be annoyed, but they could be annoyed at that as mafia too. Unfortunately, it kind of ruins that line of discussion. Then the discussion about the confusing post by Zoomer happens, I think I can explain:
“I make a joke, you read it as me wanting to be townread instead of me pushing my reads” can mean both:
“I was making a joke and pushing my reads and you read it as me wanting to be townread”
and
“You said that instead of pushing my reads, I was wanting to be townread; however, I was making a joke.”
Zoomer meant the second one and Spartan was reading it as the first one.
Then spartan says
In post 543, Spartan117 wrote:So you agree what you said in #536 was incorrect as you literally just stated that it is you pushing your townreads...
No, he said you did
fyi I'm not paying attention to you as whatever alignment you are, you are anti town...
Which is where I start to SR them. I do not like dismissiveness and their claim that I was doing nothing was false, I was just denying one line of thought and it spiraled out of control. Salsafairy proceeds to actually do nothing and the discussion on Zoomer’s post ends, and I vote Spartan. Then there is a lot of Enchant/Flow/Zoomer convo. Then Floo says a few things I don’t agree with. I don’t think joking sometimes is scummy & Salsafairy was also doing screw you tactics, but they didn’t SR Salsafairy, if Prism is right, it would probably Floo+Salsafairy imo-atm. I say I TR Prism & Floo and Spartans asks if I could explain and then I say yes, and then... don’t do it . The rest of page 25 is suspicious Salsafairy posts & dead people. Well, there is me trying to capitalize on my suspicion of Spartan I and felt pockety vibes on Salsa (and defending the currently at that time defenseless) as they weren’t as snappy with them. Prism & FaC action, which is mostly like except for 634 & 635 which they were completely fine with then. Then the 647-649 debacle happens, which is really NAI and I question Salsafairy bringing it up. Then Quiet comes in with a nice entrance, I’m not sure if it’s Mafia niceness or just their general character, but they seem to be posting a lot so I’m actually going to rescind my SR for NR atm. Most of page 27 is NAI except for Salsa contributing quite a bit before going back to their normals selves, I null/town read this action. Exciting, now we get to this post:
Which was… a mistake ! I actually began to PRR Salsafairy (and Zoomer by proxy), so I claim I TR them. I then vote Enchant starting the End of the Round. Salsafairy calls out the 647-649 debacle, meh. I self-bus and bring up the idea of Flow+FaC, which everyone ignores. Later it gets brought up on its own and since I know I’m town, I’m suspecting one of the ones who thought that is scum. The whole Enchant thing was a complete mess, I think Quiet had a good reaction to it as well as being their usual self. I just thought I would give a quick mention to 720-725 no comments on it. I then vote Prism to make a 3-way tie, my reason was indeed pettiness, but I also like voting my claimed TRs to get a reaction out of others. I like floo asking if I want to prevent a FaC wagon and then I don’t like them not following up on it with anything. Page 30 is mostly walls. I'm suddenly feeling uneasy about Prism for being sometimes nice and sometimes cold.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:39 pm
by quiet
In post 1733, flow trap wrote:I'm suddenly feeling uneasy about Prism for being sometimes nice and sometimes cold.
You're hot and you're cold, you're yes and you're no....we fight, we make up, we NK, we break up, as the poets say. A song clearly intended for the mafia universe.
Can you elaborate what you mean on this though? I recall hot vs. cold off the top of my head or really see it in those posts, but I'm not doubting that it exists, I probably just read it differently.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:40 pm
by quiet
*I don't recall
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:46 pm
by flow trap
Great now
I
don't see it anymore I can't even do a wall right
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:47 pm
by flow trap
I need to stop making up 1-use terms
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:49 pm
by quiet
In post 1733, flow trap wrote:I just thought I would give a quick mention to 720-725 no comments on it.
Huh, I kinda standby what I said here. I'm still decently sad about how that went down.
Things like this is how "too scummy to be a scum" become a thing. Enchant fakeslipping goon and self voting to infinity is just...you can't get away from voting it, because most of the time it's going to flip mafia, but christ.
Enchant, I hope you are still reading this thread. Maybe I'll ping you after the game if that's allowed, and try to convince you that committing suicide because you think you are SRed and bad at being town or whatever the exact methodology behind that decision is even more harmful than a later miselim. We miselimed Fred next on also very light reasons, but scum had to at least work for that one. I was able to pull nothing out of the day1 votes on you, nor the positioning of anyone else really. Maybe floo pulling back is interesting? But EZ just being tunnel convinced it was scum and even being annoyed at me for still asking questions/delaying as town is a good example of how you really can't read much of anything from that. And now I'm just talking to a corpse so this is probably wasted words.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:51 pm
by quiet
Or maybe Enchant is setting up to be absolutely terrifying and unreadable in the future. Who knows. Godspeed, Enchant.
It's all good Flow. Keep on trucking. I'll check back in and review some of what you said in parts 1 and 2 as well. Feels strangely like a group thread readalong and book discussion or something.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:53 pm
by quiet
In post 1730, flow trap wrote:Very towny but in the wise words of Skybep: "Always be suspicious of players who are "cleared" but not eaten"
yep, if they manage to be alive tomorrow and we don't lose tomorrow uh....i'll have many questions.
Fairy was a reasonableish kill tonight, doctor wifom (though gut feeling says no doc) and reasonably townread, has some nice properties of framing you messing with prism possibly targeting a few others and TRed Prism.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:54 pm
by quiet
I've come around on a fairy nk making sense from various perspectives.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:54 pm
by quiet
please don't ask me what perspectives those are specifically I'm not that smart
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:55 pm
by flow trap
I feel like even if there was a doc Prism would still be a good NK
EAU: *Too
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:02 pm
by Prism
I'm around and catching up atm if anyone has something they want to talk about
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:03 pm
by quiet
Oh agree it's def a good NK, just fairy is reasonable enough that I'm not yet questioning my prism TR, and I think there are some better NKs for prism than Fairy. Frankly, with fairy + me alive, I think Prism wins today. I would be more likely to find a fairy vote than a prism vote by a wide margin in that circumstance.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:04 pm
by flow trap
If the Team is indeed Floo+Spartan, what reason would they not NK Prism and NK Fairy, after all You (Quiet) and I both TR Prism
This is what is worrying me the most, especially if it does go to Prism v Floo; Quiet+Prism doesn't make that much sense either
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:07 pm
by quiet
that is a good question. In a Prism, quiet, flow trap town world, floo + spartian kill fairy cause doctor, they think prism is sus for not dying, they think killing prism would get floo voted, and thats about the only other reasons I can think of. I'd have to review fairy's play to see if they were suspicious within those two slots. Fairy was explicitly not suspicious of floo.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:08 pm
by quiet
the simpler reason would be that you are scum, but yknow, i'm engaging in good faith here, and your question is totally valid from your perspective as town which I do like.
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:10 pm
by quiet
also fairy did TR prism. again, one of my key questions today is...uh, does everyone TR prism? I want that confirmed (not that they are town, just that everyone TRs them).
You being more suspicious makes some degree of sense given your PoE.
. The rest of page 25 is suspicious Salsafairy posts & dead people. Well, there is me trying to capitalize on my suspicion of Spartan I and felt pockety vibes on Salsa (and defending the currently at that time defenseless) as they weren’t as snappy with them. Prism & FaC action, which is mostly like except for 634 & 635 which they were completely fine with then. Then the 647-649 debacle happens, which is really NAI and I question Salsafairy bringing it up. Then Quiet comes in with a nice entrance, I’m not sure if it’s Mafia niceness or just their general character, but they seem to be posting a lot so I’m actually going to rescind my SR for NR atm. Most of page 27 is NAI except for Salsa contributing quite a bit before going back to their normals selves, I null/town read this action. Exciting, now we get to this post:
Great now