Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

[Toogeloo]

Just a friendly reminder that if you were a VT, you were playing a completely different game than if you were a vigi from da hood.

[Tejate Raichu]

Is that really the sole hint of what the hell was going in the vigi hood the entire game?

yes?

Yep, we were absolutely doomed then. There was no way I was ever picking up on that and I don't think anyone else even bothered.

[DkKoba]

I said we shouldn't claim the hood at the start of the game but that was under the assumption we would always have at least one town alive to claim the traitor even if the other 3 were dead. Nero and Momo dying N2 shouldn't have happened.

Vig is a shit role so not a good decision tbh lol

[Tejate Raichu]

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, what incentive is there to not claim hood outright in this situation? The entire mafia should know every single vigilante in the game by proxy of having a mole in the hood, and the vigilantes should know this. Not claiming isn't protecting PRs from mafia, it's just depriving town of info.

[DkKoba]

I mean 1 person could have outted and thats it yknow LOl

Like

"Hey i have mech info that implies theres a traitor "
Thats it

[Dwlee99]

The traitor didn't indicate who was in the hood to the mafia, and also didn't even know who the mafia were. So we would have been a masonry if we had gotten the traitor.

[Tejate Raichu]

Ah, right, traitor. Sorry, that detail slipped my mind. Okay, nevermind me.

[DkKoba]

But still - if your plan is to shoot into your hood you need to have contingency of having a person claim the traitor exists

[Nero Cain]

I had wrongly assumed that one of me or momo would have been alive

[schadd_]

Bigilante

[MagikHorse]

What I really wanted was a STD flip d2 and then to shoot hellbooks in the night. I prob should have not shot koba n1.

Yeah, it would've been better to see that slot actually post something. Going there was kind of just random.

[Dwlee99]

But still - if your plan is to shoot into your hood you need to have contingency of having a person claim the traitor exists

That would have happened if Nero was alive.

[Firebringer]

i really felt like my scum game here was exceptionally weak. To the point i thought i should have been massively scumread by day 2. Day 1 ehhhh i think i did okay.

notes for town players:
toogeloo---u really didn't need to get apathetic.
Not _ Mafia - never change
Magik - I was really unsure how to handle u and just my little push i was trying to be as cordial about it as possible and i feel u tried to escalate it at every instance. I thought town me would have further pushed into toxic territory but i explicitly decided to ignore continuing engaging cause i didn't want to engage to create a toxic 1v1. I wanted a friendly 1v1. I thought it would be really nasty. Overall i think u should be more solvey in the game, u provide alot of analysis but u don't really push it in productive areas i thought.
It seemed more like u just were someone taking notes on the game and commenting as a witness to it rather than player and that was kind of one of my arguments against u that i would have fleshed out as an attacking point.

Tejate - i see a different but similar situation with magik for u. U didn't really push anyone until u were being pushed. Nothing proactive, and u didn't provide like a lot of analysis. You played as a very reactive player.

Andante - i still don't get why u were getting scumreads. maybe u just need to explain ur switches of reads to show them more. Ca
use i think ur getting scumread because u jump around without a clear shift but I can see the jumps or at least understand theres jump.

nero cain - i enjoyed our little spats. It helped me stay active in the game when i got bored of this game. i genuinely missed uo n the final day.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

GG

Just a friendly reminder that if you were a VT, you were playing a completely different game than if you were a vigi from da hood.

yeah this. It was still fun though, ty Pooky for modding

[Scorpious]

ty Pooky for modding

Indeed,thank you for the Game.

[Nero Cain]

IDK, I feel like it could have reasonably been gotten that Hellbooks was the hood traitor b/c I was pushing that one of STD/hellbooks was scum. I mean maybe it was harder than I think it was but if feel like no one really bother to go back and look at my reads or play. Tej went back but he was just too tunneled on Toog to see it.

Also AD it was never my intent to insult you. I do think your play is a bit like NM in that you are willing to hammer almost anyone and I thought it was really off when you where way more lenient in this game then I've ever seen you before and I just thought calling you a "wannabe NM" was a cute humorous way to convey that. Though being offended at being compared to NM is also kinda yikes.

[MagikHorse]

Magik - I was really unsure how to handle u and just my little push i was trying to be as cordial about it as possible and i feel u tried to escalate it at every instance. I thought town me would have further pushed into toxic territory but i explicitly decided to ignore continuing engaging cause i didn't want to engage to create a toxic 1v1. I wanted a friendly 1v1. I thought it would be really nasty. Overall i think u should be more solvey in the game, u provide alot of analysis but u don't really push it in productive areas i thought.
It seemed more like u just were someone taking notes on the game and commenting as a witness to it rather than player and that was kind of one of my arguments against u that i would have fleshed out as an attacking point.

This is about how I felt about it myself. Surely some of that was the rust of not playing the game for nearly 2 years, but not all of it. Early Day 1 it's a good style to adopt since nobody's going to be solving the game that early anyways and it rather rapidly pushes people to a higher information state, once you're there its usefulness kind of tapers off. I got a little too alright with maintaining that sort of supporting style and found it too difficult to make the actual decisions I needed to later in the game, relying very heavily on Nero Cain to carry me through Day 2 off of my Day 1 towncred and failing to carry myself through Day 3 properly at all. Tejate had the WiM to potentially carry it too, but it ultimately came in too slow and too late.

Really though, I felt like your argument was a lot of words but little substance to begin with, a lot of claims where most things were assumptions about dead people and nearly no substance to back up what wasn't.. A case built on "I think X, but I have no way to prove it and it's an out there idea" is already a bit hard to chew, which was mostly why I found the case more annoying and frustrating than effective. I know you pointed out that my countercase was just me shouting "you're wrong", but the main bulk of that case felt like thin air to begin with due to its absence of actual examples (something I bemoaned from the entire town in the final hours), and I guess in the end it may really have been built like that. I'm still clearly not used to articulating arguments against such an example-free case, might be something to work on in the future as well, but holy cow you pulled off the paranoia angle well with that hollowness and panicked fear.

[MagikHorse]

Really though, I think the better move would've been to just ignore me and push on Tejate or any of the lurkers and just go with the flow. My Day 1 would've proven to be a hard thing to convince people to side against due to the Frogster interactions, but Tejate had plenty of suspicion for the first two days that could've potentially made for a convincing case and Keeper really offered little to the game at all and would've been another easy push. I guess people just really don't like me being alive or something, since every day saw a case against me of varying quality.

Either way my point was certainly not to be uncordial. The anger and frustration just arose way too fast at a case too empty to push back upon and caused me to lose a little bit of control, and I spent a little while before bed just trying to get my emotions back in check afterwards. The actual anger and frustration was wild, and yet my test is usually

so tonally flat

that few people can actually tell when my emotions are starting to run rampant. As a general rule though, if I start saying "hell" instead of "heck" (and not referring to Hellbooks), I'm probably rather peeved already. Same thing if I start spacing my sentences out strangely for emphasis. If I start trying to use other curses as well, you know I'm absolutely off my rocker angry. 1517 was probably the angriest post I made in the entire game, and even then I reigned it in a lot to consider a world in which you might just be a paranoid townie afraid of ghosts. Even if it was wrong in the end, I feel it takes some character to even consider it after running both prior cases to the ground.

So, I guess if you want a cordial 1v1 give me something to actually fight instead of frustrating me with thin air and supposition? That really does feel like why that all went so haywire so fast, and I nearly took you up on your offer to 1v1 you to the ground when you threatened it over frustration alone.

[Tejate Raichu]

@Magik

What does WiM mean? Toog said it on day 3 as well, I'm unfamiliar with the term and it's not on the wiki either as far as I can tell. But too slow and too late is right, I'm still very disappointed with my day 3 performance here but at least that's something I can try to improve on in future games I guess.

I feel like, my biggest mistake day 3 wasn't pushing Keeper. My biggest mistake was being too reliant on the thoughts of others, the only real reason I easily accepted the idea that there was no traitor was because everyone else seemed to think that Pooky just created a hood of 4 townies to generate paranoia (except ironically for FB who expressed "concern" over N_M being neighbor even after this). If I had kept going with my theory instead of letting it be shut down like that, I would have hard pushed Scorpious since there is no way his claim makes sense then (though in hindsight it didn't make that much sense to begin with, it was just the closest claim besides a neighbor traitor that made some sense for the theme). In fact, in that scenario, hellbooks claim makes even less sense for the theme so just off of those two claims, so I don't think I would have even needed to case Nero that much to come to the conclusion that 2/3 remaining scum reside in Scorpious and hellbooks. But in the end, I took the easy way out: I was townreading Scorpious off of his prior play, and hellbooks seemed townie enough, so I sheeped myself and failed to do the one thing I could have done that would have brought us much closer to winning.

As for Nero's case, I do think it's entirely possible that I might have got Nero's hint if I thought it was actually worth putting effort into looking into. I think I almost had it actually, though I ultimately let both my biases and the belief that my theory wasn't worth putting too much effort into get in the way of what could have been an actual solve. If I had put more time into it instead of just going with my own bias on what I already felt seemed off with how Nero referred to Toog, I might have seen it.

TL;DR, I feel as though my day 3 play was pretty much the embodiment "close, but no cigar" and I don't think my play in prior days was all that impressive either. My reads were just completely off this whole game, seeing as my earliest TR besides Magik was Mafioso McMafierson. My only real read that was on point was about the setup, and I brought to discussion too late, and then dropped it too easily. In general I've always felt like one of my weakest aspects as a town player is that I can lose confidence too easily, and this game in particular showed me some specific examples that would have been much harder to pin down in chat mafia where everything is much faster.

I might end up taking a break from forum mafia for a bit for unrelated reasons, but I'll try to improve on the things I totally flubbed here going forward. Thank you for modding, Pooky.

[MagikHorse]

WiM = Want it More, effectively a shorthand for a player's drive and determination. Lacking WiM means you're being apathetic and don't seem to have much interest in the game at all, having a lot if it means you're pushing and forging ahead strongly with a clear investment.