Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

I think nancy should backup Gorkington for big ben but I'm fine with the rest of it

Do you scumread Gorkington?

[PeregrineV]

This is Jae typing up a PM to Nahdia

I will protect Ali because I hard-TR him and he has the neighbor wonder

Oh shit there was no NK did scum try to kill Ali?

At any point does JaeReed/Notice float this theory, esp. after Max died and we're all like "He protected Pine! Pine is town!"?

He crumbed the protect already PV. Just stawp. JaeReed is crumbed doc with a crumbed Alisae protection.

I think he crumbed it day5. I'm a right or wrong?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think nancy should backup Gorkington for big ben but I'm fine with the rest of it

Do you scumread Gorkington?

I think that Gorkington slot might have to be scum just based on how few scum slots there can be. Then again if Peregrine is scum then Gorkington is probably town

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh look PeregrineV is trying to discredit obvtown notice

[MathBlade]

Someone making a choice you wouldn't, or most people wouldn't, doesn't make them scum. I buy both Ali and Senpai's choices coming from those players.

Doc does not protect who they think it town, doc protects player most likely to be NKed in their opinion.

If not, don't take doc, it's not for you.

On the basis JaeReed took doc because it "was for him", he would do the doc best (as town), not as how he

thinks

it's played.

A requirement of thinking someone likely to be NK'd is someone being town.

If not, don't make ridiculous analogies. It's not for you.

Wow, do you not see the difference?

As doc take your town reads rank them in order of likely to be killed
or work from a scum team and ask who that team kills

both require the doc protect to be a townread of yours.

[RadiantCowbells]

also I'm highly skeptical of the fact that I've been in this game two days and I have more posts than half of the players

[MathBlade]

I think nancy should backup Gorkington for big ben but I'm fine with the rest of it

Do you scumread Gorkington?

I think that Gorkington slot might have to be scum just based on how few scum slots there can be. Then again if Peregrine is scum then Gorkington is probably town

So you think a plan is acceptable to have Gork who is a possible scum read give investigation results?

[PeregrineV]

Some explenation with my plan;

The goal is to optimize information gain, and also force scum to make suboptimal choices for their next nighthkill.

Ceasar has been tunneling Leonshade all game. People say he doesnt bus - so I paired him with Leonshade for the new Doctor/roleblock'ish wonder. Ceasar is the low prio - so if scum did set him up and Leonshade already built something the wonder should go to him - unless they block him ofcourse. If leonshade is town in the two, he is higher in priority and I dont mind him getting the wonder since he'll make excellent use of it.

To make it harder for scum to circumvent this Leonshade vs Ceasar check, we also kindly ask Nancy to go for the forbidden palace. Either we learn scum indeed did pick it (which is big, knowing one of their 5 slots for certain) - or we get a scum-claim on Ceasar and a townclear on Nancy.

Ive added Gorkington for the Rolecop wonder. I strongly feel Gorkington is town now, so it would be in excellent hands here. The only downside of having only gorkington on it is they might simply use the forbidden palace on him - this would waste both Gorkington's and Nancy's build. Still looking for other suggestions if theres better ideas here.

As previously requested, LUV and RC are up for the new vig wonder. If theyre both town this means one of them will get it - unless there really is a scum that also hasnt built since day1 and they block LUV. This would still mean the other wonders go through though, which is still great for town (unless Nero cain flips town - which likely means its game over). But if this is the case, it likely will come down to our protective roles saving us regardless - And this way we force scum to use forbidden palace to get the vig guaranteed.

Cloudkicker is up to build the Redfort - and I feel this is an important part of the plan. We have a ton of ways of town-confirming him here this way, in the offchance he is town (or at least confirming he's the least usefull scum since redfort has 0 scum utility) - and also plenty of ways of making him fail the check, confirming him as scum. Open for discussion with Math if this is worth the investment.

I have also done some suggestions for targets for actions depending on Nero Cain's allignment. If he flips town we've been duped by RC, of that im certain. That means all protective roles need to be all hands aboard, since it likely means scum went all-in to end the game during the coming night. This does likely mean we have 2 doctors that can save us at random - so they should just try and out-wifom scum on whom the kill targets will be. I dont find it extremely likely anymore that nero flips town, so im not -too- worried about this - but its definately a possibility. If Nero does flip scum as expected, we should focus our targets on maximising the knowledge gain within the group without claimed wonders. Ive done some solid suggestions in the google doc, but im open to discussing them with math now.

Before I trace the intricacies of this, are any of the players you are suggesting wonders for scumreads of yours?

[Nero Cain]

like all of Gork, CK, Caesar just feel like town simply based on them being pushed as a scumteam with me. Its such bullshit.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you'd rather I go for Big Ben I can priority it but that leaves scum free to block LUV and take it.

[MathBlade]

Some explenation with my plan;

The goal is to optimize information gain, and also force scum to make suboptimal choices for their next nighthkill.

Ceasar has been tunneling Leonshade all game. People say he doesnt bus - so I paired him with Leonshade for the new Doctor/roleblock'ish wonder. Ceasar is the low prio - so if scum did set him up and Leonshade already built something the wonder should go to him - unless they block him ofcourse. If leonshade is town in the two, he is higher in priority and I dont mind him getting the wonder since he'll make excellent use of it.

To make it harder for scum to circumvent this Leonshade vs Ceasar check, we also kindly ask Nancy to go for the forbidden palace. Either we learn scum indeed did pick it (which is big, knowing one of their 5 slots for certain) - or we get a scum-claim on Ceasar and a townclear on Nancy.

Ive added Gorkington for the Rolecop wonder. I strongly feel Gorkington is town now, so it would be in excellent hands here. The only downside of having only gorkington on it is they might simply use the forbidden palace on him - this would waste both Gorkington's and Nancy's build. Still looking for other suggestions if theres better ideas here.

As previously requested, LUV and RC are up for the new vig wonder. If theyre both town this means one of them will get it - unless there really is a scum that also hasnt built since day1 and they block LUV. This would still mean the other wonders go through though, which is still great for town (unless Nero cain flips town - which likely means its game over). But if this is the case, it likely will come down to our protective roles saving us regardless - And this way we force scum to use forbidden palace to get the vig guaranteed.

Cloudkicker is up to build the Redfort - and I feel this is an important part of the plan. We have a ton of ways of town-confirming him here this way, in the offchance he is town (or at least confirming he's the least usefull scum since redfort has 0 scum utility) - and also plenty of ways of making him fail the check, confirming him as scum. Open for discussion with Math if this is worth the investment.

I have also done some suggestions for targets for actions depending on Nero Cain's allignment. If he flips town we've been duped by RC, of that im certain. That means all protective roles need to be all hands aboard, since it likely means scum went all-in to end the game during the coming night. This does likely mean we have 2 doctors that can save us at random - so they should just try and out-wifom scum on whom the kill targets will be. I dont find it extremely likely anymore that nero flips town, so im not -too- worried about this - but its definately a possibility. If Nero does flip scum as expected, we should focus our targets on maximising the knowledge gain within the group without claimed wonders. Ive done some solid suggestions in the google doc, but im open to discussing them with math now.

Before I trace the intricacies of this, are any of the players you are suggesting wonders for scumreads of yours?

1) This is Vecna's plan
2) I have stated my opinion on Vecna's plan.

[MathBlade]

If you'd rather I go for Big Ben I can priority it but that leaves scum free to block LUV and take it.

I am asking what you think of the plan as a whole. I am working on a counter plan.

[PeregrineV]

Someone making a choice you wouldn't, or most people wouldn't, doesn't make them scum. I buy both Ali and Senpai's choices coming from those players.

Doc does not protect who they think it town, doc protects player most likely to be NKed in their opinion.

If not, don't take doc, it's not for you.

On the basis JaeReed took doc because it "was for him", he would do the doc best (as town), not as how he

thinks

it's played.

A requirement of thinking someone likely to be NK'd is someone being town.

If not, don't make ridiculous analogies. It's not for you.

Wow, do you not see the difference?

As doc take your town reads rank them in order of likely to be killed
or work from a scum team and ask who that team kills

both require the doc protect to be a townread of yours.

No you don't- that's dumb.

If 75% of players read a player as scum, but I read them as town, why would I protect them when they probably won't be the nightkill?

If that many players are scumreading them, scum will probably save him for a mislynch down the road, not a night bullet.

I'm better off finding someone that more people townread. Then if a minor townread or even a null read personally, I will have take the best action for town overall.

[Nahdia]

Lynch Vote 5.18

Nero Cain (4):

RadiantCowbells, Alisae, Leonshade, nancy

nancy (2):

Nero Cain, CloudKicker

Caesar Wills It (2):

Lil Uzi Vert, Creature

Not Voting (6):

MathBlade, Caesar Wills It, davesaz, NoticeMeSenpai, Vecna, Gorkington

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-04-10 14:55:00), at which point we will default to no lynch.

Industrial Era Wonders & Resolution

Now seeking replacement for CloudKicker.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Really don't want to rehash but yes PV is speaking what I was thinking.

[PeregrineV]

we're not arguing on a 'hey nero is town i'm town whose reads should we take into account' basis

I don't think nero is a bad town player. I just don't think he's town here. he can link all his town games but that doesn't change the fact that he gets lynched here because he's not town

why do you think he is not town?

[PeregrineV]

Really don't want to rehash but yes PV is speaking what I was thinking.

You did a good job pointing it out 40 pages ago, where I started reading.

Not sure why Notice wouldn't protect the statue, all things considered.

but apparently this is just all foreplay before the nancy lynch.

[PeregrineV]

Nero Cain (4): RadiantCowbells, Alisae, Leonshade, nancy

Yeah, total yuck.

Is there 1 case on Nero, or 4 cases? I would like to read and evaluate them.

[PeregrineV]

Oh look PeregrineV is trying to discredit obvtown notice

Why do people keep misusing that word contraction?

[RadiantCowbells]

no one cares about your read on Nero when you were 'RC or bust'ing when I was trying to lynch him in TimeShift. And that's assuming you're town.

[MathBlade]

Someone making a choice you wouldn't, or most people wouldn't, doesn't make them scum. I buy both Ali and Senpai's choices coming from those players.

Doc does not protect who they think it town, doc protects player most likely to be NKed in their opinion.

If not, don't take doc, it's not for you.

On the basis JaeReed took doc because it "was for him", he would do the doc best (as town), not as how he

thinks

it's played.

A requirement of thinking someone likely to be NK'd is someone being town.

If not, don't make ridiculous analogies. It's not for you.

Wow, do you not see the difference?

As doc take your town reads rank them in order of likely to be killed
or work from a scum team and ask who that team kills

both require the doc protect to be a townread of yours.

No you don't- that's dumb.

If 75% of players read a player as scum, but I read them as town, why would I protect them when they probably won't be the nightkill?

If that many players are scumreading them, scum will probably save him for a mislynch down the road, not a night bullet.

I'm better off finding someone that more people townread. Then if a minor townread or even a null read personally, I will have take the best action for town overall.

You judge but when I'm alone as doctor F2F it's literally uncanny how many kills I save. I have a nickname amongst my friends of "No Kill <redacted>" (redacted is my real name). I'm even a policy NK.

[MathBlade]

Lynch Vote 5.18

Nero Cain (4):

RadiantCowbells, Alisae, Leonshade, nancy

nancy (2):

Nero Cain, CloudKicker

Caesar Wills It (2):

Lil Uzi Vert, Creature

Not Voting (6):

MathBlade, Caesar Wills It, davesaz, NoticeMeSenpai, Vecna, Gorkington

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-04-10 14:55:00), at which point we will default to no lynch.

Industrial Era Wonders & Resolution

Now seeking replacement for CloudKicker.

Hmmmm be on a lynch wagon with my scumreads or with my town ones and I'm just waiting til I build a plan that has my townreads consensus then hammering. Not touching nancy.

[PeregrineV]

Pere if you're town you're god awful at this game and your shit tier reads in timeshift prove it. no one gives a fuck what your opinion is

One shit game does not a bad Town make.

One good game does not a good Town make.

PV has mostly good reads in games I am with him on. When scum against PV I have to work extra hard to contain him.

It's OK, I won that game.

@Radiant-

Nero was scum that game, and you were town. His game is markedly different here, so how are you now scumreadign him?[/size]

Missed the answer to this, also.

[MathBlade]

You lost Shadowrun PV Booo gaslighting bad. XD

[PeregrineV]

Someone making a choice you wouldn't, or most people wouldn't, doesn't make them scum. I buy both Ali and Senpai's choices coming from those players.

Doc does not protect who they think it town, doc protects player most likely to be NKed in their opinion.

If not, don't take doc, it's not for you.

On the basis JaeReed took doc because it "was for him", he would do the doc best (as town), not as how he

thinks

it's played.

A requirement of thinking someone likely to be NK'd is someone being town.

If not, don't make ridiculous analogies. It's not for you.

Wow, do you not see the difference?

As doc take your town reads rank them in order of likely to be killed
or work from a scum team and ask who that team kills

both require the doc protect to be a townread of yours.

No you don't- that's dumb.

If 75% of players read a player as scum, but I read them as town, why would I protect them when they probably won't be the nightkill?

If that many players are scumreading them, scum will probably save him for a mislynch down the road, not a night bullet.

I'm better off finding someone that more people townread. Then if a minor townread or even a null read personally, I will have take the best action for town overall.

You judge but when I'm alone as doctor F2F it's literally uncanny how many kills I save. I have a nickname amongst my friends of "No Kill <redacted>" (redacted is my real name). I'm even a policy NK.

F2F is different. It's hard to know everyone's opinion on all the other players.

Here, it's easier.