Nintendo Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

because Austin is NOT Texas.

Heh. Yeah, I know what you mean.

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meh, obvious gambit is obvious. If serious DTMaster needs to get vigged or lynched D2 for being either a.) scum or b.) horribly, horribly anti-town to the point of being a potential liability.

Yikes, can you say blowing things out of proportion?

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In any case

Vote Darla

for being complacent about my hammertime. See my points above :p

That seems a little silly. I wouldn't have said anything either.

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You are one of those that needs an explanation at the vote huh? Mmk.

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"oh well he did it too" *walks off*

blatant mudslinging there

"look, they did it too" = scum tell.

VOTE: VOTE: mb53

I like this point and your stance on Lelouch.

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Meanwhile, Lelouch is still scum and I am

not

moving my vote from him under any circumstances. I'm planning on revealing why, exactly, sometime in the next day or two... but in the meantime, know I am 95% sure of my vote which isn't generally the kind of thing I say lightly.

You can't read players like him. You can't sit here and tell me you're sure he scum or not, not if he's going to continue acting the way he has been.

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This kind of situation generates a problematic pattern that always leads to theoretical discussion: how do we distinguish a town VI from a scum VI? I don't feel good about you. My guts say my vote is a good one, and I have recently seen noobs who played poorly and won as scum because they played the noob-card and no one really cared about them (Amrun in x-files mafia). But I need you to quit talking nonsense about your major strategies (believe me, they are just stupid) and answer some game related questions.

The traditional solution is to let them be dealt with by scum/SK/Vig shots because it makes no sense wasting energy in the debate between lynching them or not. Some will argue it's necessary due to his behavior, others will argue his behavior makes him obvious town... etc.

I wouldn't put much effort into it if you can help it.

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Take a look at this thread, in which Lelouch mentions 'a better way of doing quicktopics'. Note the time the thread was posted -- it was in between when JMJ said he was sending out roles and the time he said the game was starting. As far as I can tell from reading his "search all user's posts" thing he started no other games around this time. I assume most of you are smart enough to put two-and-two together from this point.

Oh, I see. This changes everything.

Unvote

;

vote: Lelouch VI Britannia

That's good detective work, esurio. That's a lead you can take to the bank.

[lewarcher82]

@Lew: So just because your case is pretty crappy of esuriospiritus, that's why you went back to lynching Lelouch?

"I do change my vote if my target starts looking townier or if some good case emerges. "

So you're not going to make a decent case on esuriospiritus and quit on a case you call 'crappy'?

I was voting Lelouch and only moved to eusorio because I thought I had seen a scumslip. Turned out I was wrong. Moved back to Lelouch. Did I ever manifest the intention of making a case on eusorio apart from the alleged scumslip?

Someone said Lelouch is trying to provide his reads on people. I will concede that he is posting about some townreads. however, saying that:

PatB looks town (with no reason provided)
Dekes looks town (with no reason provided)
Tragedy may be a doc (!!!!) : why? for prodding people to give a response. To what? I don't know. Please someone direct me to this pro-town activity of Tragedy, because I don't find it.

This is really not what I call giving reads. To the least it is posting gut feelings, while in the worst possible case his read of Tragedy may be fishing for a doc.

To which I will add: claiming VT out of nowhere; using bullshit justifications for his lack of replies to the points raised against him (draft lost and cousing killing the router), often referring to town roles such as doc and vig (potential fishing, again: I say what vig should do and wait for the reactions of town players), a ridiculous OMGUS vote on eusorio based on the following consideration: "I came up with it all on my own according to the reactions of the Scum player his buddies have not posted yet. and HE IS SCUM. KILL HIM."

^this is what I saw. What eusorio added now:

Ugh, my draft for this post is mysteriously gone. ;_;

Anyway,

here is what I've been going on and on about the last couple of days:

In addition to everything I and others have pointed out about Lelouch's play that is scummy, he's also committed a pretty big gaffe, and I'm honestly surprised I'm the only one who caught it.

Take a look at this thread, in which Lelouch mentions 'a better way of doing quicktopics'. Note the time the thread was posted -- it was in between when JMJ said he was sending out roles and the time he said the game was starting. As far as I can tell from reading his "search all user's posts" thing he started no other games around this time. I assume most of you are smart enough to put two-and-two together from this point.

When I discovered this was, as I mentioned, when I read the rules in full, to see if there was any rule against using this as part of my case against him. As long as I don't talk about ongoing games (I'll let you research for yourself whether it's plausible or not that he was referring to any other ongoing games here, but hint: it's not) there's nothing in the rules against making a case based on something outside of the game.

If this happened coming from a smarter poster, I'd probably give that person the benefit of the doubt. But I totally wouldn't put it past Lelouch to get a scum PM, realize we use QT at this site, and immediately wander over to "site ideas" to tell everyone about how 'other site x' does talking-to-your-buddies better than we do without thinking about the ramifications of making his post when he made it.

Feel free to lynch/bus/distance from obvious scum now.

is an interesting hypothesis. I am usually suspicious of quick wagons, but THIS quick wagon prolly means that his scumbddies are abandoning him. He will flip scum, and we will have some good stuff to work with, namely wagon analysis: many people joined the wagon after eusorio posted her contribution.

@Lelouch: you are at L-2. You should consider defending. You have once written that on saturdays you would have been very prolific. The night of saturday brought you at L-2. Where are your posts?

[GhostWriter]

Scum giving up, most likely, whilst cursing himself for making a mistake like this.

[GhostWriter]

@Ash, something I find even more disturbing than the DBE wagon speed was the speed of the TMH counter wagon for such seemingly innocent reasons.

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

FUCK YOU JUST FUCKING LYNCH ME SO I CAN GET OUT OF THE GAME, ITS NOT LIKE I GOT TO KNOW CERTAIN INFO BEFORE I STARTED THE GAME AKA MAYBE A CERTAIN PM FROM A CERTAIN MOD, BUT YOU KNOW ESURIO IS JUST SCUM SO IS GHOSTWRITER TRAGEDY HAS A HIGH CHANCE TOO (WHEN THE FUCK DID I CALL TRAGEDY A DOCTOR?!) AND MB IS ACTING OD AS FUCK BECAUSE He KEEPS CALLING ME TOWN EVEN WITH THE CURRENT INFO ON ME AND IF I DIE THEN HE GETS TOWN CRED FOR HAVING DEFENDED SOMEONE HE NOTICED TO BE TOWN! SO ALL IN ALL JUST FUCKING LYNCH ME ALREADY.

[lewarcher82]

BUT YOU KNOW ESURIO IS JUST SCUM SO IS GHOSTWRITER TRAGEDY HAS A HIGH CHANCE TOO (

WHEN THE FUCK DID I CALL TRAGEDY A DOCTOR

?!)

as for

Tragedy

, he seems to just be prodding people to get a response I don't see any real threat from him

appears to be a Doc trying to figure out who to protect but thats my opinion

. I got a town read on him idk why maybe cus i played marathons with him XD

my bold.

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

Disregard that post he has gone above and beyond the Doc Prodding in my thought

[esuriospiritus]

Contrary to what Lelouch says, I will actually suspect MB53

more

if Lelouch somehow flips town than if he flips scum. Flying in the face of irrefutable evidence like that just doesn't seem like something a scumbag would risk doing when they know Lelouch is gonna flip scum, while on the other hand if MB53 is scum and Lelouch is town it gives MB53 easy town points to have looked past the evidence.

I certainly wouldn't consider it lynchworthy on its own, but it would definitely make me want to take a much closer look at him.

Crazypianist made a really good catch about Lelouch's lie about the timing of his role PM. I, for one, got mine pretty soon after he initially mentioned he was sending out/writing role PMs.

I still have yet to give the thread a general re-read. That'll happen soonishly.

[esuriospiritus]

PS: Tragedy, could you link us your most recent town game and scum game (if you have one)? Thanks.

[GhostWriter]

Guys, I'm totes scum for voting him. Caught scum said so in all caps. Oh noes!

[mb53]

@lew I tend to give people town reads with little/no reason as well >_>

Maybe I am wrong with my read on lelouch (I have accidentally defended scum before, I can link if you want me to), but I feel he is genuinly trying (even in the post where he gave up he was scum hunting lol). I don't know what to think of the quicktopic topic, it may or may not be a coincidence.

Why am I scum defending someone who I think is townie, rather than town defending someone who I think is townie?

[Tragedy]

PS: Tragedy, could you link us your most recent town game and scum game (if you have one)? Thanks.

The only thing I would say is that I really did a bad town stuff in Simpsons Mafia and bad first-scum game of Frenzy Mafia. :/

[Tragedy]

I still think lelouch is town VI, rather than scum VI. There hasn't been much scum motivation through is stupidity, and it appears he is

trying

to get reads on people.

So you're still voting on Lelouch despite you think he's a Town VI, beautiful.
Your scuminess has been proven.

[mb53]

I am not, and never have voted for lelouch.

[Tragedy]

My bad.

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

Uh dont jump the gun yet Tragedy when I die MB is being put in the spotlight then you can have fun.

[Tragedy]

I'm still sitting my vote on DBE.

[mb53]

lelouch:

Why am I scum defending someone who I think is townie, rather than town defending someone who I think is townie?

[Pinky and the Brain]

@ esurio: Isn't Lelouch is talking about PMs primarily?

Tragedy case is weak considering how short Tragedy's first post after Lelouch's vanilla claim was

Hmm?

Okay, so here's context. Take out mb's post immediately underneath (#135). It seems unnatural doesn't it for Tragedy's post (#137) to suddenly come after Lelouch's (#136) when all the points addressed to Lelouch have nothing to do with his #136. It's really quite obviously a post prompted by mb's post.

We also have this recently:

I still think lelouch is town VI, rather than scum VI. There hasn't been much scum motivation through is stupidity, and it appears he is

trying

to get reads on people.

So you're still voting on Lelouch despite you think he's a Town VI, beautiful.
Your scuminess has been proven.

Tragedy says this with a RVS vote still down on DBE.

MB IS ACTING OD AS FUCK BECAUSE He KEEPS CALLING ME TOWN EVEN WITH THE CURRENT INFO ON ME AND IF I DIE THEN HE GETS TOWN CRED FOR HAVING DEFENDED SOMEONE HE NOTICED TO BE TOWN!

This paticular snippet is reading quite strongly town to me, actually. Even being hounded to death, he's astute enough to realise that there's some 'incriminating' evidence on him, and yet mb is going "TOWN TOWN TOWN" with no paticuarly compelling logic, and so he's suspicious of mb. Don't think that newb-scum would do this, so I'm leaning newb-town.

I'm not liking his seemingly unprovoked flip-flop on Tragedy, but eh. I can buy newb-town doing that.

~ Hopp

[lewarcher82]

I have a conference tomorrow: I will be V/LA for about 24 hours... if it lasts longer, I will make sure to make a quick post tomorrow night

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

Thanks for the small bit of support just make sure If I die you thoroughly investigate or kill MB for being ODD with all the evidence I am surprised that this is happening he hasn't given a reason other than I think he is Town compared to well although the evidence is good he has been on Esurio's case and Esurio dug up all this on him and btw it is a very unlucky coincidence

[Dekes]

Is [your esu-vote] still valid?

Nah, apparently not. I specifically did read the rules after that "esu-slip" and still missed it

Is it wrong, if I still think Lelouch is just dumbtown? But his lynch is pretty much inevitable now. And regardless of alignment highly appreciated.

At least all of this has helped me getting some reads.

Don't like RedCoyote's post. If it's apparent you're gonna change your opinion on Lelouch at the end of the post why leave all the bits reading Lelouch as town and questioning people on their scum read on Lelouch in it? Reads like overjustification for your turnaround at the end of the post.

Tragedy looks very scummy. Going through her Iso there's no earnest attempt at trying to move the game forward. Lots of alibi-activity.
And every Darla-vote is wasted unless you openly admit it to be a policy/LALu-vote.

Dana is lurking happily and

thil could use a prod, mod

.

Esu-vote is obviously no longer needed so I'm heading over here:

Vote: Tragedy

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

Well with that said I would like to jump on Tragedy but am too lazy to really come up with any idea's not to mention probably gonna be lynched so whys it matter? But yeah yeah lynching a noob isnt going to change his play style it merely enables a newb or makes them make radical decisions greatly altering the way they play which can be a turn for better OR worse or even both in diffrerent categories however if my lynch gives the town good information then go for it I won't hate you if you vote me and lynch me... unless I find out your mafia later.

[Espeonage]

Back from V/LA. Will catch up today.

[Espeonage]

LVB is so town VI noob it isn't funny. Considering I spent a large amount of time playing a SE to help try and improve my play I know how to read VIs. I've only ever had a wrong read on a VI once.

Unvote, Vote: esurio

Stop tunnelling town and actually bother to reassess reads after the first couple of pages. There is NO pro town motivation in tunnelling this early in a game. Also what is with the firing off of snide comments on how scummy people are. If you think someone is scummy enough to point it out in the thread don't slip it in as a side note in an attempt to brush off votes on you. Actually make a case instead.

@ nameclaim: Common thing in themed games, figured I'd propose it.

@ My DBE vote. OMG he bandwagoned on page 3. Lynch him.