Newbie 1101 - Game over!

[sanchocolates]

Let's see if I can come up with "reports":
Voidedmafia:

Scum

Incognito:

Possibly Scum

Grimmjow:

Possibly Scum

Elfen:

Likely Town

cjdrum:

Town

Oswald:

Town

dk_peace:

Town

sanchocolates:

Neutral

Do you have reasons to think these people are town? Or do you think if you said they were town you'd go unoticed?

[cjdrum]

@ cjdrum

What are some protown reasons for lurking? While I can admit that many reasons for lurking are probably null (like real life), I honestly can't think of any reason not to actively contribute to discussion that legitimately aids the town in the long term.

Things like not attracting too much ProTown attention to themselves for the scum - scum will want to kill off the most ProTown players so that near the end of the game there is a lot more confusion as to who is who. So Docs or Cops may lay low a bit, which

can

be useful to the Town if done correctly.

[sanchocolates]

ProTown attention? How can you spot a ProTown player?

[sanchocolates]

I don't get how you can draw attention to yourself, because 1) how can you act protown without giving hints that you have a pr? 2)there is a possibility of 2 protown roles out of 7 townies. But we know there has to be AT LEAST 1 protown player. That will make it hard for the scums to actually find who is PR just by people's style of play imo. And if the PR player is clever, he can protect those that is helping the town etc.

[Elfen]

Welll, Void, lets just say I have a gut feeling that you are :/ dunno why just have a strong indication, I mean you b ring up the same things again and again when you are trying to avoid the quotes and or things that where said to you. I mean in your last post, you said the same thing, you hating Qla I mean Ql are wonderful, abling to show the people time from going back to look at it. Also dude who wrote post #174, wasn't he drinking??

[Incognito]

Caught up again.

Of the two lists on the last page, I think Elfen's looks more genuine; I can't at all see how PersonalIdiot is reading cjdrum AND Oswald as town - those are the two people who are either giving me the strongest pings right now or are more neutral leaning scummy. PI, care to comment?

I'm kind of annoyed at how long it's taking me to develop town reads in this game; I feel like at this point in other games, I'd have at least 4 of them by now, and I'd be trying to whittle that down to finally figure out who the scum is but meh. At this point though, I feel quite comfortable saying sancho and Elfen are most likely town. I'm still working on everyone else.

cjdrum, any reason you didn't acknowledge my #143 and #144?

I'm hoping that dk_peace gets more caught up soon so that he can begin to address things more during real time.

And I'm kind of miffed that some of the points I've brought up against cjdrum have largely gone unnoticed...

[Incognito]

Incidentally, Elfen, what do you find scummy about wagoning?

[Voidedmafia]

This seems to be the foundation of the Voided/quicklynch argument and as such it's a decent one. Since he's said he dislikes quick lynches repeatedly but this is jarring and reads scummy(and is also factually untrue, as my last game went close to deadline the first 3 days and actually kept a good pace on conversation through most of it) He then proceeds to adamantly deny that he was pushing for a arbitrary quick lynch. Saying that we need to push a lynch through in a week even though the actual deadline is 3 weeks away feels fairly arbitrary to me but that is neither here nor there.

I do go on to elaborate that it expands to only games I've watched and played, and I have noted it isn't in EVERY game. But It's happened in pretty much every one I've read. I will apologize for the lack of elaboration though.

I adamantly deny it becase a.) HYPOCRITICAL and b.) I wasn't even trying to insinuate "Hey, guys! We need a QL before Week 1's done!"

Then there is the question he didn't answer. Honestly, I'm not really sweating it. The point of all of those questions was to generate discussion to move the game forward (although the first two were mostly for my reference further on in the game. I like to know if mistakes are n00b errors or actual scum tells and I like having expectations for how much people are going to post)

Incog can back me up or dispute me, but scumtells from that are kinda weak. I mean, they may help you build up a case, but generally they aren't that good overall, imo.

Then there is this:

I don't know what it was, but the phrase just pinged me. It

seemed

really bad, but I still can't put my finger on exactly what it is.

Don't let yourself get too bogged down by it. -_-

This feels like deflection to me. Instead of addressing cjdrum's concerns, Voided simply tries to sweep them away. I don't like it

Well, I didn't feel like there was anything to be concerned about, which is evident in the tone of that line. I missed a question, yadda yadda, anything else, cj? Like that.

Next we have Voided vaguely implying that Oswald was lurking for not responding to his question right away. This left a bad taste in my mouth but I don't really think it's scum per se as much as it's unrealistic expectations based on inexperience. At least, at that point. Currently, the idea that Oswald is lurking is starting to gain some merit but I'll go into that further in another post.

I would think four games (with 3 ongoing) of mine wouldn't put me in the "inexperienced" category. Personal tic of mine.

That said, this really seem like the entirety of the case on Voided as I see it. If I missed something big then feel free to point it out. However, it feels way to weak to have gotten to L-1.

Cjdrum mentioned that I've had a number of slips to build his case, but I don't recall him actually saying what those slips are.

[Voidedmafia]

Welll, Void, lets just say I have a gut feeling that you are :/ dunno why just have a strong indication, I mean you b ring up the same things again and again when you are trying to avoid the quotes and or things that where said to you.

I never brought up the same things again and again, though if I did, feel free to point it out. Rather, pretty much everyone with a want for my lynch has brought up the same points again and again, and one in particular that I've repeatedly shot down..

I mean in your last post, you said the same thing, you hating Qla I mean Ql are wonderful

Oh? Do tell where I've said at any pont that i think QLs are wonderful.

abling to show the people time from going back to look at it.

What?

Also dude who wrote post #174, wasn't he drinking??

Grimmjow had drank, and Incog was tipsy when he said Elfen was clear town.

[Grimmjow]

@ Grimmjow

I was not claiming town or scum. Not once (that I can remember) have I actually claimed town.

Yes you did:

And, as far as my questions go, I can see how they would be considered fishy, however, if I were scum, I would not need to "fish" for information as to who was town and who was not.

However, as town, I most certainly would need to do this.

And, as this is my first game and I don't like the idea of RVSing, why would I not start a discussion on such a topic?

Either you lied about it or you forgot about it in under 12 hours. Care to comment?

If you would notice, I said, as town, I most certainly

would

need to do this, implying a hypothetical situation. If I was claiming town, I would have said something to the effect of "as town, I have to do this" or "I need to do this." "Would" implies hypothetical situations. I can understand how this can be taken as me claiming town, however I was trying to show a hypothetical situation as to me being town.

[Grimmjow]

UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

I'd tell you more, but I have to go to work.

You've been at work for almost 20 hours? Damn.

[Incognito]

Gentleman, it is not a scum tell to claim town.

Nor is it a scum tell to avoid a non-alignment revealing question.

What IS a scum tell, however, is to have experience on this site and to still try to suggest that we lynch a player after only 3 days worth of content and no input from 2 players.

That is all.

[Grimmjow]

Caught up again.

Of the two lists on the last page, I think Elfen's looks more genuine; I can't at all see how PersonalIdiot is reading cjdrum AND Oswald as town - those are the two people who are either giving me the strongest pings right now or are more neutral leaning scummy. PI, care to comment?

I'd like to chime in here real quick. I'm thoroughly beginning to think of Oswald as scum. I've had an itch with him since his first post, but I've not had anything concrete to hold him on, since he hasn't really been all that active. And now, all of a sudden, Void gets close to a lynch and the heat essentially has turned to him, Oswald unvotes him and says NOTHING about why he did it. Seems to me that he could be trying to cover his scum buddy's ass.

I'm kind of annoyed at how long it's taking me to develop town reads in this game; I feel like at this point in other games, I'd have at least 4 of them by now, and I'd be trying to whittle that down to finally figure out who the scum is but meh. At this point though, I feel quite comfortable saying sancho and Elfen are most likely town. I'm still working on everyone else.

Honestly, I haven't ruled you out yet. I was talking with an SE the other day, and he said that as an experienced player in a newbie game, a lot of the things that newbies might find scummy are just the more experienced players trying to teach them. I can understand that, but I'm not sure I by that with you just yet.

And I'm kind of miffed that some of the points I've brought up against cjdrum have largely gone unnoticed...

Sorry, care to bring those quotes back up for the class?

[Incognito]

In response to your first block: I'm assuming you're saying that you're beginning to think Oswald and Voided could be scum together? If so, I don't really see that as a very likely possibility; there was absolutely no reason for why a hypothetical Oswald-scum had to put his hypothetical buddy at L-1 the way he did. If you find Oswald scummy individually, then that's great, but I think it's a good idea to use caution when you begin trying to use more associative tells (i.e. looking for potential scum pairings).

As for the second block, fair enough. I don't expect you or anyone else to check me off as town, and I even expect some level of paranoia to come about from players who might think I'm just fooling them with my experience or what have you.

Cliff's notes case for cjdrum:

I will happily support a Voidedmafia lynch, but would like to see him post to confirm that he isn't a Power Role, and to offer something of a defense-ish form.

-Happily supporting a lynch 2 days into a game? While being an SE player? When 2/9ths of the game hadn't contributed yet?
- Potential slip by saying I "would like to see him post to confirm that he isn't a Power Role"? If cjdrum is scum, this line kind of implies that he *knows* Voided is town but that he's obviously not sure of what role Voided might claim.

Admittedly, I SHOULD stop being lazy and I SHOULD probably look into cjdrum's past games to see if he was like this in them too, but yeah, it's weird to me how nobody else has noticed this except for sancho and a little bit of Elfen in his catch-up post.

[Incognito]

cjdrum, I'm looking through your history, and I can't find a game that had you as scum in it. Do you have one that you could link to?

[Elfen]

oops.. I thought Ql ment quote lines xD not quick lynch.

@Incognito question. To be honest, I really hate band wagoning, RVS and other things that hurt town ): cause most of the time its always a townie who dies.

Also, isnt Voting=Pressure. And when Void was getting voted, did he crack? I think so

[sanchocolates]

oops.. I thought Ql ment quote lines xD not quick lynch.

Lol, I had to giggle at this. XD

I feel PersonalIdiot04 is just jumping on a wagon he thinks will lead to a lynch. He comes up with a 'report' with no evidence to back up any of the 'reports' he made. Is his vote on Voided atm? Most likely.

[sanchocolates]

So far through the game, he hasn't been contributing as much and hasn't been scumhunting imo, just jumping on Voided's wagon and using the same reason that others gave.

[Elfen]

^ Good point, but I think we need to see PI post more to see this more. IGMEOY: PI

[Incognito]

Dear Mr. Elfen,

What you're saying about bandwagoning and voting isn't making sense, brah.

Mindless bandwagoning probably isn't the best idea, sure, but bandwagoning that has reason behind it? Plenty of sense.

You can't say "well look at what happened to Voided when he got under pressure" and then say "I'm against bandwagoning because it hurts town."

Because the 2nd of the two statements would lead me to think you understand bandwagoning's full potential (applying pressure to scummier people to make them crack).

The additional benefit is seeing how OTHER people react to the wagon too.

Got it?

P.S. The Ql thing was very lulzy.

Sincerely,
Incog

[Elfen]

Oh... Well the most I see is mindless band-wagoning most of the time thats why >_> And thanks :DD. I learn new stuff everyday

[Voidedmafia]

oops.. I thought Ql ment quote lines xD not quick lynch.

You're forgiven. Just remember that I'm meaning quicklynch most of the time I use that.

Also, isnt Voting=Pressure. And when Void was getting voted, did he crack? I think so

Voting is pressure, and voting also leads to bandwagons.

And how do you think I've cracked?


Oswald needs to both A) explain his unvote, and B.) Reply to my reply against his "case" on me.

PI needs to tell us all why he thinks I'm scum.

cj needs to answer to Incog, it seems.

dk: I can understand how you could see that as a scumtell, but I would have to side with Grimm on that one (even if I may be contradicting myself). The wording is certainly suspicious, but it doesn't make sense to word it that way as a claim.

Incog: Do you still believe my case is cold? Are there any other reads you feel certain enough about giving?

[PersonalIdiot04]

I'm sorry, but I'm quite stressed with the goings-on. As for the reason that I jumped on the Voidedmafia wagon, I actually started the wagon. I'm still quite inexperienced, so I think I'll revise my reports:
Voidedmafia: Likely Scum
Elfen: Likely Town
sanchocolates: Leaning Town
dk_peace: Likely Town

The rest I am unsure about.

[Incognito]

I'm sorry to reply "I'm sorry" to your "I'm sorry", but "I'm sorry I'm new" doesn't really cut it. You were pretty capable of explaining why you thought Voidedmafia was and continues to be a scum read for you so now I'd like to know why cjdrum is a town read for you. I'd also like to know why Oswald is now an "unsure" read for you when previously he was town and why sanchocolates is suddenly a "leaning town" read. Because since you're not explaining your thought process, for all I know, you could be shaking around a magic 8 ball and using that to say why people are what they are.

Incog: Do you still believe my case is cold? Are there any other reads you feel certain enough about giving?

Yes, still cold. And no, not at the moment.

[el simo]

Vote Count

• (3) Voidedmafia
  -
  PersonalIdiot04, Grimmjow, cjdrum
  
  
• (2) cjdrum
  -
  sanchocolates, Incognito
  
  
• (1) Oswald
  -
  Voidedmafia

(3) Not Voting:

dk_peace, Elfen, Oswald

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.