Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[absta101]

@absta I'm much more interested in hearing the opinions of people I don't expect to lie to me.

Why would town-you want to (really) know why your post seemed fake when you know it to be genuine? I can see scum wanting that information so they could avoid making the same mistake again (or other reasons), but not town.
Town-you would interrogate Disturbed by instinct IMO.
---

@Nacho

Saying that he found jmo town and disturbed scum but overall found the argument to be scumvtown felt to me that he was posturing to push jmo for scum after Disturbed flipped, which was especially scummy because he went for one popular mislynch (disturbed), while defending the other (jmo), but allowed for an easy flipflop after the first mislynch.

I noticed this as well.
Your reasons are good and I believe your town.

[ICEninja]

Bacde can you please break down for me in a bullet point case why your vote is still on Nacho? It seems to me like you're trying to find reasons to find him scummy, unsuccessfully.

McStab very much needs to produce content today.

I just realized Mirhawk's vote has been sitting on me. A quick check of his ISO shows his only reasons for suspecting me were that I had multiple suspicions early in the game but didn't have my vote on all of them. Care to explain why your vote is still on me?

[Bacde]

-nacho is scum
-nachos posts are really scummy
-i want nacho to be lynched

I'll keep my vote here.

[Bacde]

@absta I'm much more interested in hearing the opinions of people I don't expect to lie to me.

Why would town-you want to (really) know why your post seemed fake when you know it to be genuine? I can see scum wanting that information so they could avoid making the same mistake again (or other reasons), but not town.
Town-you would interrogate Disturbed by instinct IMO.

I'm asking you so you would have to ask yourself and see that it is indeed genuine. I guess I just play differently than you I don't know what else to say to this.

[Disturbed_One]

Bacde, you said you suspected JMO in post #88. I did look through your ISO however and saw your changed your mind in #96. I had completely missed that as was unaware you changed your opinion on JMO.

Nacho looks town to me, I don't think his reaction is scummy at all. Bacde still looks super scummy and I really like absta's point how he didn't ask his scum read, who supposedly seems fake to him, about one of my posts that absta thought sounded fake.

[Bacde]

I am currently voting for two people. I'll fix that.

Unvote, unvote, Vote: Disturbed_One

I think one of jmo or disturbed is scum, and I'm pretty sure its Disturbed. Disturbed reads to me as "we caught a town doing something stupid, now everybody get him!", and then changes his vote to the most popular wagon when asked more thoroughly about his first read.

Will think more about iamausername and iceninja later. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum, but I don't have as strong a feeling as I do for jmo and disturbed.

This is the post in question. Disturbed I fossed you and not jmo. What about Nacho seems not scummy to you?

[Disturbed_One]

"Fossed"? I'm sorry, I do not know this term. You clearly say that you believe one of us is scum. I know you fixed it, but you did, at one point, suspect JMO. Perhaps not as much as me, but unless my eyes deceive me, you clearly said that.

I like and agree with his argument on you. I feel you are scum and the fact that he is voting you very strongly indicates to me that he is town. Maybe it's just a gut read, but I really like his posts and where he is taking the game.

[Bacde]

FOS = finger of suspicion

I'm slowly beginning to think you might actually be new and eager.

[Mirhawk]

Unvote

Sorry about that ICE, I've just been using you as a parking lot. I haven't entertained any serious notions of you being scum since page five.

Nacho hasn't done anything anti-town. His initial case against bacde was well supported and I feel nothing he has said since then has in any way contradicted his earlier statements.

Bacde looks scummy as hell. The logic in his posts between 160 and 167 is quite bad. Accusing Nacho of an appeal to emotion in particular seems like a real stretch. Nacho was clearly mocking him. Also post 177 was garbage and unhelpful. His refusal to present a more focused case makes me think he doesn't have one. In the absence of a case he also appears to be asking people to prove Nacho's town rather then prove he's scum.

Vote: Bacde

I'm seeing Dire_Drenz as town. Scum would not have purposefully replaced out to get the town a better, more active player. Votes on him are wasted.

[Bacde]

If jmo and dunhamganger hop on this wagon too it practically proves that I'm town. Choo-choo

I see Nacho as a cautious player who is concerned with how other people see him. Thats scumplay in my book. I've already stated my points before so I don't know how I am supposed to reiterate them for you in a bullet-point format. This is a big gut-read for me as well.

@Mirhawk, what about my logic is bad?

[Mirhawk]

I don't think the appeal to emotion in post 160 is valid. I already explained why.

In post 163 you implied that Nacho admitted to using abasta's case as his own, when he in fact had not.

In post 167 you again bring up that thing about abasta's case. The quote you have however can clearly be read that he is referring to your opinion at the beginning of the sentence, rather then his own view on abasta's case.

I must admit however, I am colored on this because as I read the exchange Nacho ripped everything you said apart. In my eyes this makes Nacho look better and you worse. This doesn't take into account the fact that Nacho might just be better at debate. Nothing Nacho has said make him look particularly like town or scum in my eyes.

[jmo16mla]

If jmo and dunhamganger hop on this wagon too it practically proves that I'm town. Choo-choo

I see Nacho as a cautious player who is concerned with how other people see him. Thats scumplay in my book. I've already stated my points before so I don't know how I am supposed to reiterate them for you in a bullet-point format. This is a big gut-read for me as well.

@Mirhawk, what about my logic is bad?

1. How? You're implying something. So speak up.

2. Read his prior games. That's how some people play. You can't base someone's play by how scummy they if they always play like that dosregarding alignment.

[Bacde]

Look, I can already tell this is a losing battle for me, so I'll

Vote: Shamrock

right now. I want the lurkers to post more so everyone can get better reads before the day ends. I'm not done with Nachomamma, but it seems like a lot of people are taking his side because he is more verbally expressive than I am. I still think Nacho is scum. I'll wait until he slips and show everyone.

Someone said that Nachomamma didn't appeal to emotion but was instead "mocking" me. Mocking is a form of appealing to emotion.

I don't know how to explain this, but Nacho is doing a lot of manipulative arguments where he implies something and when I catch him on it, he acts as though he never implied it in the first place. He's undermining me to make me look bad. His mocking me is a perfect example of this. Whenever I get this frustrated with someone they are usually scum. I'll admit I am reacting a bit emotionally to his arguments, because they literally make no sense to me and I get frustrated with arguments like that.

@jmo you and Disturbed had a weird interaction, and so did Dun and Mirhawk. If all of you are willing to hop on to my wagon, it seems to me like scum are jumping on to something easy. However that hasn't happened yet so this argument doesn't hold much weight right now.

@Mirhawk, go ahead and look at his post where he "ripped me apart". A lot of his responses just say undermining things such as "lame" or the instance where he said sarcastically "I bet you wouldn't like anything iamausername would say at this point". He isn't saying anything specific, but instead just being sarcastic and coloring me to look bad. His entire initial argument is based on there somehow being an incongruency between me saying that I thought jmo probably didn't OMGUS on purpose, and saying that there was a problem with ICEninja saying that a vote on him was "not good". If you can show me how those are incongruent I'll eat my hat. Hell, I'll even add my ketchup.

[ICEninja]

-nacho is scum
-nachos posts are really scummy
-i want nacho to be lynched

This pretty much looks to me like an admission that you have no case on Nacho, yet are fully bent on lynching him anyway. Virtually every piece of evidence you've presented that would suggest he's scum has been adequately refuted.

Yeah I'm liking Bacde less and less. I want to see something happen with the Dire slot, but I might end up moving my vote over to Bacde anyway.

PEDIT: I'm a bit conflicted now regarding this most recent post. The first paragraph once again seems to be him recognizing that he simply has no case but still wants Nacho lynched. I approve of lurker hunting as a rule, though. The rest of the post is, in my eyes, basically saying he's got a gut scum read that he can't seem to articulate all that well. Which is fine, I suppose, but I feel like town would have said that a long time ago instead of trying to find reasons to fit the scum read.

I actually really think that there's one, and probably two, scum hiding in the lurkers right now. So for the time being I'm going to keep my vote right where it is.

[Mirhawk]

@Bacde
When I said Nacho was ripping your posts to shreds I meant his later ones, after you started arguing with him. Nacho's original case on you was quite bad, and in fact until you started responding to Nacho's claims I had a town read on you.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count #7

Bacde (4) - Nachomamma8, Disturbed_One, absta101, Mirhawk
ICEninja (2) - McStab, Dunhamganger
Dire_Drenz (2) - iamausername, ICEninja
Disturbed_One (2) - jmo16mla, Dire_Drenz
McStab (1) - RedRabbit
Shamrock (1) - Bacde

Not Voting (1) - Shamrock

Deadline is in: (expired on 2012-12-15 00:00:00)

13 alive, 7 to lynch.

Going to take a very minor gamble and just send off Dire_Drenz's role PM to that hydra I've got waiting. I say a gamble since there are other players who haven't posted since my announcement of that possibility, but I suspect they will not object.

Edit: Jabberwock, a hydra of Empire and Tierce, replaces Dire_Drenz.

[Jabberwock]

Yarr.

Vote: Bacde

FoS: Shamrock

[Jabberwock]

Shamrock, dude, I know it sucks that you drew a scum PM but seriously you should take a break from prod dodging here to help us out by bussing your partner, thanks in advance.

[absta101]

Shamrock, dude, I know it sucks that you drew a scum PM but seriously you should take a break from prod dodging here to help us out by bussing your partner, thanks in advance.

Why are you voting Bacde?

What do you think of jmo?

[Jabberwock]

Bacde is obvscum. Let's see if this head can find our notes.

jmo is very likely Town. And we have Townreads on the full Bacde wagon, funnily enough--we're looking for the third scum at present.

[absta101]

Bacde is obvscum. Let's see if this head can find our notes.

jmo is very likely Town. And we have Townreads on the full Bacde wagon, funnily enough--we're looking for the third scum at present.

Why is Hawk town?

Also, that's bs. Looking for the third scum? No town is that confident.

[absta101]

Looking forward to those notes.

[Nachomamma8]

Looking for the third scum? No town is that confident.

ummmmmm

[ICEninja]

[Jabberwock]

Compiling stuff. This degenerated somewhat because at one point we were just pointing and laughing at the obvscum over AIM; first lamenting why he wasn't getting votes, then cheering Nacho when he caught on. But this is what it can be reduced to:

I think its likely jmo is telling the truth. Drunk or not, its possible to OMGUS on a random vote. I am currently most interested in (suspicious of) iamausername and iceninja

iceninja for saying a vote on him is "not good"

This is awful. Look at how shitty his reason to suspect ICEninja is.

Sticking on iam for still not seeming genuine. 2nd fos = iceninja

I don't like how iam thinks iceninja is a good wagon.

Uhm, what? He suspects both of them, and doesn't like how one of his suspects is being pushed by the other? This is the extent of his analysis--look at how back suspect ICEninja, yet apparently thinks he's not "a good wagon". Nonsense that doesn't cross Town's head.

He doesn't follow up on the iaaun suspicion either:

Unvote

Vote ICEninja

He seems to hold the opinion that every wagon in town is super awesome

disturbed one is doing the same thing, and the way he has approached his pursuit of jmo reads nothing like a coherent town thought process to me. if he thinks that lying about omgussing makes jmo obvscum, why was he only voting him "for now", and why was he happy to switch over to iceninja when that wagon started looking more popular?

Vote: ICENinja

absta seems town

So he jumps from his suspect that didn't seem genuine to the wagon that person was supporting, when he said he didn't like how iaaun supported the wagon. Do you know what in iaaun's #47 changed Bacde's mind on iaaun? We don't, but there is supposedly something there:

Sticking on iam for still not seeming genuine. 2nd fos = iceninja

I don't like how iam thinks iceninja is a good wagon.

Vote: ICENinja

absta seems town

@Bacde, what changed between these two posts? iceninja hadnt posted between the two.

Good question. iceninja didn't post but iamausername did.

Then it gets outright hilarious:

I am currently voting for two people. I'll fix that.

Unvote, unvote, Vote: Disturbed_One

I think one of jmo or disturbed is scum, and I'm pretty sure its Disturbed. Disturbed reads to me as "we caught a town doing something stupid, now everybody get him!", and then changes his vote to the most popular wagon when asked more thoroughly about his first read.

Will think more about iamausername and iceninja later. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum, but I don't have as strong a feeling as I do for jmo and disturbed.

He keeps pulling crap like this:

The fact that Disturbed thinkts Dire_Drenz is a good target for pressure makes me want to not pressure Dire_Drenz. Staying on Disturbed.

These are paper-thin connections that he never explains in depth. They allow him to flip his reads around once his target flips Town. Town doesn't need stuff like this, they don't care if they will be wrong in the future, but Bacde is covering all his bases. He is using connection as the

base

for his reads on people, and those connections are flimsy and superficial.

Classic Dunhamganger.

This is an interesting interaction between Dun and Mirhawk. Not sure of how I read it yet.

hahahahaha
See what I mean?

And now the part when it becomes overtly cheesy and ridiculous:

@Nacho did you notice that absta is also suspicious of me before you voted me? Because thats what it seems like to me.

Yep, just as I thought. Nacho was making sure other people suspected me before voting me. That's like scum behavior 101

Vote: Nachomamma8

Now THIS can be considered an OMGUS (by me).

By the way, I was pretty suspicious of you when you misconstrued my argument. There's nothing contradictory about believing jmo was drunk and didn't purposely OMGUS, and also believing that ICEninja was scummy for specifically stating that a vote on him was "not good".

Disturbed is scummy but

this

, this is scum incarnate. Lynch this fool.

More fake connection ridiculousness:

@Disturbed the way you interacted with jmo seemed like a scumvtown interaction. Show me where I ever suspected jmo and I'll eat my hat.

-nacho is scum
-nachos posts are really scummy
-i want nacho to be lynched

I'll keep my vote here.

What is this crap. Honestly. Look at it. This guy doesn't have any train of thought to think Nacho is scum; the logic for his Nacho vote was "you noticed other people were suspecting me before voting me!" So what? People keep an eye on the VCs and on what other players say.

How is that ever supposed to be scum mentality?

Scum might be interested in pushing mislynches, but Town are also interested in getting their scumreads lynched.

---

ICEninja--that is the BEST image. Thank you.

Mirhawk is Town because his posts are logical and have a visible train of thought of someone who is looking for scum. I can dig some stuff up if you'd like details. :effort:, sigh. Let's see if I can recruit the pretty one to do that for me.

As for being that confident, huh, what? If we have two scumreads, and we know Mini Normals have usually three scum, why wouldn't we be looking for a third?