Mafiascum.net

Typically it's supposed to be the third or forth on the wagon (i just remember reading that somewhere)

It just seemed weird to FoS him for something as simple as putting out a hammer, there is no scum tell in that, in fact even being on that wagon isn't a scum tell due to the fact that 3 townies at least voted for MrZ.

OK i'm gonna start with voting Ribbit and see where that lands me



Hardcore defense of MrZ (seems like it was for town cred)
Backing off once MrE gets involved (not likely a partner more then likely didn't want to have to try and fight against 2 people for town credit)
Xtian had suspicions of Ribbit.

I guess you are right, maybe I did get a little speedy with my FoS. Still going on what I previously said, my first focus is always the hammer. It doesn't mean I think they are scum, just where I personally like to start.
Ill post later with more substantial info hopefully.

I wanted to see if Zeph breadcrumbed JK as it's not obvious when looking at his posts.

But really, he was digging his grave pretty deep there as he contradicted himself several times.

I also wanted to question reham on his odd behavior, which leads me to why I suspect him today.

Hammering isn't scummy as he did follow the procedure, and had town's support with it.

↑ Cybertronix wrote:
I also wanted to question reham on his odd behavior, which leads me to why I suspect him today.

So yesterday you were going to ask questions, today you decide to go "fuck that it must be reham"

Seriously ask the questions don't half ass and do nothing.

Here is the order of votes for MrZep:
1. AssMuffin
2. Jason
3. Mr E Roll (First vote, directly after replacing.)
4. BrightEyedFish (L-1)
5. Mr E Roll (UNVOTE)
6. Mr E Roll (Re-Vote for L-1)
7. reham008 (HAMMER)

Hope this helps.

After looking through D1 while making this list, Mr E Roll is now popping up on my radar.
Directly votes for MrZep after replacing. MrZep already had 2 votes.

In MrZep's list in Post 103 the only player that he has listed as scum is Mr E Roll.

Coincidence, maybe. But worth thinking about. But I feel confident in voting for him for now.
VOTE: Mr E Roll

Well no offense but MrZ kinda got himself lynched so clearly he wasn't the brightest spark, not to mention that is the list he boned and with MrZ being town it's not really helpful as all we can tell is that his intentions were town based (no matter how scum like they seemed)

Also MrE's vote was kinda legit he gave a good reason for the vote so i don't see how it is odd that he voted when he replaced in (pretty sure i do that all the time)

@reham008: As I previously stated, I find your behavior at the end of D1 very odd.

VOTE: BrightEyedFish
as MrZepher's defense of him was sudden, calling him town when BrightEyedFish messages seems to be the same as the others.
And his opportunist vote which could be a possible scum move as explained earlier.
Can I also ask a claim from BrightEyedFish?

I don't find the vote scummy, as you have given your reason for voting him. But as others have already pointed out, there's no reason to ask for another claim so early.

Oh yeah,
But trust me on this.
After he claims, I will explain why I asked him that.

Trust isn't easily given in this game, you'll have to give a better reason than that.

I will explain, but after BrightEyedFish claims...
If you have read it, you will get why I asked for a claim.

But after some careful thought, I realized that my request could be done on the second day and the claim isn't necessary now.
So I retract my request for now, and ask for it on D2.
Sorry, haha, my plan was so good that I got too excited.

So will you ask him to claim now and let us in on your plan? I don't see how it would make a difference either way. BrightEyedFish shouldn't have to claim unless the town agrees to it.

TBH it really looks to me like you're role fishing, for what purpose maybe you could let us in on that. Right now it looks scummy.

VOTE: reham008

JasonWazza, could you clarify something for me? If Zepher would have flipped scum, you were clear that you would have proclaimed me town with little doubt. However, since Zepher flipped town, I'm now scum because I defended him? The arguments that you held against him, in my eyes, did not hold up against logic; I really wish that I wouldn't have to repeat myself so much about my defense of MrZepher. I "backed off" when Mr E Roll brought other evidence to my attention, not because I was intimidated by him in some way. If I had disagreed with his claims against MrZepher, I would have argued against them as well. Even given MrZepher's role flip, I do not disagree with the reasoning behind Mr E Roll's arguments, unlike your own. As it was, his claims were more solid than yours.

Yes, Xtian was suspicious of me on Day 1. Why would mafia night kill someone who had called them out during the day? That makes no sense. An action like that would create a direct negative connection between the two players, something that mafia generally try to avoid. I think that it's more likely that Xtian was nightkilled because no one suspected him of wrongdoing throughout day 1, leaving only those with active arguments or evidence against them on the table.

Cybertronix, which of my actions have made me seem suspicious to you? You say that you have a gut feeling, but what is this gut feeling founded upon? Now that you've had more time to look into my actions, what is your opinion of my alignment?

JasonWazza, the town was not against lynching MrZepher, you are correct. It was your unnecessary trial against him that resulted in the change of the town's general attitude towards him, so I hold you accountable for his loss, even though you seem to blame it only on him.

I agree with Cybertronix that reham008's actions toward the end of Day 1, and to a lesser extent his actions throughout the day, were very odd. I feel as if this is the result of a language barrier and him being newly introduced to the game, however. His actions seem to me to be less scum tell and more ignorance at the moment. In the end, I have trouble seeing what logic he bases his actions on, and do agree that his future posts should come under serious scrutiny.

can you please explain why my voting for MrZ has earned a spot on your radar? I thought I had adequately explained my vote. Seems to me if you didn’t like the reason for my vote you should have questioned me about it yesterday.

Also why is the fact that MrZ listed me as scum in post 103 adequate reason for voting for me? Did you forget his correction in post 129?

MrZepher wrote:Mr E Roll should be null near the bottom and BrightEyedFish should be scum (opportunist voting) and JasonWazza should be scum as well (stretching and misrepresenting basically all over the place).

Also it’s clear that MrZ had Jason as his biggest scum read.

MrZ wrote:and YES me flipping town = Jasonwazza is scum.

It seems to me you are trying to play off the fact we now know MrZ’s was town motivated while severely cherry picking his posts to suit your needs. I think it’s because you think it would be easier to get me voted out than Jason. Any comments?

Enough about that.

Several things about your play late yesterday jump out to me…

reham wrote:I will vote for MrZepher the moment everybody has agreed…

Why did you want to withhold your vote until everybody agreed?

reham wrote:But after some careful thought, I realized that my request could be done on the second day and the claim isn't necessary now.
So I retract my request for now, and ask for it on D2.

Why didn’t you retract your request after Jason said it was harmful to town but did so after I said it was scummy? Also why were you confident that both you and BrightEyedFish would still be alive on day 2 allowing you to ask for a claim?

reham wrote:OK, I would be hurtful to town if this goes any longer as someone may change their vote and relieve the pressure on MrZepher.

What made you change your mind about withholding your vote until everybody agreed? Do you now regret dropping the hammer?

↑ Captain Ribbit wrote:JasonWazza, could you clarify something for me? If Zepher would have flipped scum, you were clear that you would have proclaimed me town with little doubt. However, since Zepher flipped town, I'm now scum because I defended him? The arguments that you held against him, in my eyes, did not hold up against logic; I really wish that I wouldn't have to repeat myself so much about my defense of MrZepher. I "backed off" when Mr E Roll brought other evidence to my attention, not because I was intimidated by him in some way. If I had disagreed with his claims against MrZepher, I would have argued against them as well. Even given MrZepher's role flip, I do not disagree with the reasoning behind Mr E Roll's arguments, unlike your own. As it was, his claims were more solid than yours.

because the motives are different pending each flip, defending one's partner so hard wouldn't be at all logical on day 1 of a game where we have 2 mislynches before LYLO, hence why i would have called you town, however defending a townie for town cred doesn't risk both partners of the mafia dieing it only risks yourself in which i think is a more calculated and easy risk to take as scum.

But i love how hard your trying to draw the link between me calling you town on a MrZ scum flip and me not calling you town now that he has flipped.

Yes, Xtian was suspicious of me on Day 1. Why would mafia night kill someone who had called them out during the day? That makes no sense. An action like that would create a direct negative connection between the two players, something that mafia generally try to avoid. I think that it's more likely that Xtian was nightkilled because no one suspected him of wrongdoing throughout day 1, leaving only those with active arguments or evidence against them on the table.

Mafia would do that so there is one less person who suspects them, DUH, but yes there are multiple reasons that a kill could have been made, i am using this one as i am calling you scummy and that would fit with your motives.

JasonWazza, the town was not against lynching MrZepher, you are correct. It was your unnecessary trial against him that resulted in the change of the town's general attitude towards him, so I hold you accountable for his loss, even though you seem to blame it only on him.

What "unnecessary trial" on him did i do?

Mr E Roll wrote:Seems to me if you didn’t like the reason for my vote you should have questioned me about it yesterday.

I want to hit this one on the head myself, This defense is retarded, it's not founded on anything, clearly after every day you have to re-evaluate who you think is scum, saying that something should have been looked at yesterday and not today is pretty shit attack wise.

Jason wrote:I want to hit this one on the head myself, This defense is retarded, it's not founded on anything, clearly after every day you have to re-evaluate who you think is scum, saying that something should have been looked at yesterday and not today is pretty shit attack wise.

Valid point. I’m not saying that we can’t re-examine the reasons for my vote today just that if he feels that it was scummy at the time of my voting he could/should have questioned it then. If he feels it is scummy now that he has the benefit of hind sight he needs to explain why he now feels it is scummy.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:OK i'm gonna start with voting Ribbit and see where that lands me

VOTE: Captain Ribbit

Hardcore defense of MrZ (seems like it was for town cred)
Backing off once MrE gets involved (not likely a partner more then likely didn't want to have to try and fight against 2 people for town credit)
Xtian had suspicions of Ribbit.

Why do you mention that Xtian had suspicions of Ribbit as a reason for your vote? That is an entirely WIFOMic attack. It seems out of character that somebody who tried so hard to avoid WIFOM on day 1 would resort to it so quickly on day two.

Phone post, it's not WIFOM its called motive for the kill, if you can"t find one then your not trying hard enough.

I can find motive, I believe that Xtian was killed because he wasn’t on MrZ’s bandwagon.

Everybody on MrZ’s wagon will be subject to scrutiny today that Xtian and Cybertronix won’t be. By killing one of those two the mafia keeps the pool of suspects larger giving them more room to hid.

However that is just a theory.

Here are a couple more: scum:Ribbit killed Xtian to get rid of somebody who suspected him (theory proposed by Jason). Scum:Jason killed Xtian so that he could make a case against Ribbit. And that is where the WIFOM comes into play.

Cybertronix...
No, I won't ask for his role since he's not our main suspect anymore.
The reason is this:
If he claims a pro-town PR, then someone who is a real pro-town PR can claim his role and therefore prove that at least one of the two who claimed first is lying and therefore we can possibly lynched one or two scums for a single pro-town PR, which is a good deal since it's improbable for cop to choose 2 scums out of 8 players, a doctor to protect the right one from 8 players, and JK's are too chaotic as they can do both pro-town and anti-town actions. (This is from a D1 point of view and believing MrZ flips scum.) And forgive any bad logic from this as I still don't know all the factors that I should account.
What is even better is that two real pro-town claims their own roles and if they turn out to be saying the truth, then the two who claimed first are lying and therefore must be scums.
And then I realized that it just could be done on D2 with the same effects. But since MrZ didn't flip scum, there isn't any reason anymore since BrightEyedFish is now less likely to be scum since MrZ flipping townie invalidates the reasons we suspected of him before.
And yes, I am role fishing, and I just known that it's called that. But role fishing doesn't always mean scummy, as my goal was to catch scums.

Mr E Roll..

Why did you want to withhold your vote until everybody agreed?

Because if I hammered without everyone's consent, that would be too suspicious. I don't want to be a stupid townie as MrZ was, flailing too much and misdirecting everyone's attention to him.

Why didn’t you retract your request after Jason said it was harmful to town but did so after I said it was scummy? Also why were you confident that both you and BrightEyedFish would still be alive on day 2 allowing you to ask for a claim?

I didn't retract because you said it was scummy, I retracted because I realized that it could be done on D2 with the same effects.

What made you change your mind about withholding your vote until everybody agreed? Do you now regret dropping the hammer?

I didn't change my mind, everybody is already pro about lynching him.
No, I don't regret it, he was so bad at being town, everybody's suspicion was on him. But we only gave him little chance to explain himself, and I admit, I was just agreeing to JasonWazza's idea most of the time.
His role was a JK, which I think isn't that important.

JasonWazza...
Though your interests was for the town, your method was too unforgiving, straightforward, and narrow minded. I believed that you pushed too much on MrZ's case. It would also seem that you are trying to manipulate us into voting a SE put of the game, which would have reduce the number of experienced opponents which you have to face.
VOTE: JasonWazza

↑ reham008 wrote:
JasonWazza...
Though

your interests was for the town

, your method was too unforgiving, straightforward, and narrow minded. I believed that you pushed too much on MrZ's case. It would also seem that you are trying to manipulate us into voting a SE put of the game, which would have reduce the number of experienced opponents which you have to face.
VOTE: JasonWazza

So my interests are for town, why are you voting me then?

This is the WORST vote ever.

reham008 wrote:Cybertronix...
No, I won't ask for his role since he's not our main suspect anymore.
The reason is this:
If he claims a pro-town PR, then someone who is a real pro-town PR can claim his role and therefore prove that at least one of the two who claimed first is lying and therefore we can possibly lynched one or two scums for a single pro-town PR, which is a good deal since it's improbable for cop to choose 2 scums out of 8 players, a doctor to protect the right one from 8 players, and JK's are too chaotic as they can do both pro-town and anti-town actions. (This is from a D1 point of view and believing MrZ flips scum.) And forgive any bad logic from this as I still don't know all the factors that I should account.
What is even better is that two real pro-town claims their own roles and if they turn out to be saying the truth, then the two who claimed first are lying and therefore must be scums.
And then I realized that it just could be done on D2 with the same effects. But since MrZ didn't flip scum, there isn't any reason anymore since BrightEyedFish is now less likely to be scum since MrZ flipping townie invalidates the reasons we suspected of him before.
And yes, I am role fishing, and I just known that it's called that. But role fishing doesn't always mean scummy, as my goal was to catch scums.

Rolefishing is scummy as fuck, seriously, [sarcasm] yes make the doctor/cop/jk a target that is gonna do wonders for town. [/sarcasm]

Trading a VT for a scum isn't a bad trade, trading one of your PR's for a scum IS a bad trade



Lets see;
Rolefishing trying to find our PR's
Voting me based on my interests being for town
and this guy is voting me for being unforgiving with MrZ when he HAMMERED HIM you can't say i am unforgiving if you set his lynch in stone.

OK i guess i should explain why rolefishing is bad.

An undetected PR is DEADLY for scum and here is why for each PR

Doctor: Living to day 3 and being the only PR can become a clear (not in this case), and if they make 2 saves we gain an extra mislynch
JailKeeper: again with the day 3 clear, if we lynch one scum he can confirm the second scum player (due to the roleblock) and has twice the likelihood of blocking a kill
Cop: Again with the clear but the bonus is actually that in the best case scenario he can make 2 innos and clear himself thus making the scum team in an instant loss, and could possibly make a good kill on scum.

@reham I don’t think much of your case against Jason…

reham wrote:Though your interests was for the town, your method was too unforgiving, straightforward, and narrow minded. I believed that you pushed too much on MrZ's case. It would also seem that you are trying to manipulate us into voting a SE put of the game, which would have reduce the number of experienced opponents which you have to face.

If you believe that Jason was acting in the interests of the town why should his methods matter? If you believe he is too straight forward and narrow minded you can always ask follow up questions or lead your own investigations.

Also I think it’s a little hypocritical of you say he is trying to get rid of experienced players when you hammered a SE yesterday and now are starting a campaign against our IC. Would it be fair to suggest that you are seeking to reduce the amount of experienced players you have to face?

Furthermore I don’t agree with your assessment that BrightEyedFish (who I will call BEF from now on) is less likely to be scum since MrZ flipped town. An opportunistic vote is an opportunistic vote. In fact I believe that since Xtian was night killed it makes BEF even more suspicious. Since that means not only was his vote against MrZ opportunistic but his vote against Xtian was as well. Really of the three actual votes BEF has cast he has not included any of his own analysis.

He voted for Xtian because he agreed with MrZ.

He voted for MrZ because he agreed with Jason.

And he voted for me because I was the third person to vote for MrZ, an idea provided to him by Jason.

@reham: What a horrible, horrible plan. I don't even...

We've already lost one PR, and with the possibility that another one exists you wanted to draw attention to them on D1?

Do you think scum would be stupid enough to counter claim? Zeph already claimed JK and scum is laughing at us for lynching him. You force another PR claim and you've just handed over the win.

@reham008
I am totally against your reasoning for voting Jason. You say that he had the town's interest in D1. Regardless of the outcome (I voted for MrZ too, along with others) voting for someone that you think has the town interests in mind is bad logic.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: reham008

JasonWazza [L-3] - reham008


Captain Ribbit, AssMuffin, Mr E Roll

@BEF any particular reason you didn’t mention that you were placing reham at L-1?

Any particular reason you didn’t address the questions I posed to you in post 186?

I think reham’s play is bad. But I think that has more to due with things being lost in translation and a lack of knowledge on how the game works. He obviously wanted to go ahead with a risky gambit on Day 1 and now on Day 2 he is leading an attack against the IC. Both plays seem too reckless for scum. I think no matter how bad his play has been he is making a bona fide attempt to scum hunt.

You know who hasn’t been making any efforts to scum hunt, but instead seems to be trying to find nice safe targets to vote for? BEF.

I don’t like how when BEF voted for me and was asked for an explanation he changed his vote instead of answering the questions.

I also don’t like how BEF seems to be constantly sheeping people.

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

I agree on all counts with Mr E Roll's 198; I feel like BrightEyedFish is trying to stay under the radar. Here's my official FoS at BrightEyedFish, but I won't vote until I've heard your response to the questions Mr E Roll asked in post 186.