The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[Elscouta]

And the second is out there already and will remain in minds.

And I'd rather people not know if I'm going to take it back later or not.

The fact that he leaves room open for a claim change is ridiculous; it gives him a pass to fake claim ANYTHING. This is more of a policy-reason to vote Esp than a scum reason, admittedly.

The best way to keep its options open is to not claim anything.

I got endgamed the last time I claimed vanilla day 1.

If this is not scummy, I don't know what is? He's threatening that he won't get lynched regardless of his horrible VT claim. Do you not see the scumminess in that?

Threatening?

How do you

threaten

to not get lynched? At best, what I see is that you are fear mongering the fact that his VT claim will allow him to ride to endgame. No one in this town has even considered the fact that his claim will

protect

him in the slightest. Quite the opposite actually.

You're also assuming I'm making sane and logical choices, something many people in this game will tell you is categorically not the case.

And do you

really think this is not scummy?

Again he's giving himself a pass to do anything he pleases.

In the context it was, it looked like an ok defense of your attack. Do you have reason to believe Esp is a logical player? To be fair, I'm interested in other people opinions. Is there someone in the game that can vouch for the fact that Esp tends to do this kind of "things".

Also if you are on my wagon and happen to be town you should read this game of mine: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=9014 . If you are scum please don't read it and just keep your vote parked on me. Thank you.

I gave up reading this when i noticed it was a 5 years old game. What is so interesting in this game that makes it relevant 5 years after?

---

The two posts that you refer as those that convinced you that Esp was scum (instead of derptown) are #63 and #70 (#39 being meh according to you). But you push Esp as scum in #56, #59 and #60. My vote stays.

---

No one should be voting danilot for reasons that involve scum play and it's baffling that these votes exist, stop it.

Why?

[sirdanilot]

In the context it was, it looked like an ok defense of your attack. Do you have reason to believe Esp is a logical player? To be fair, I'm interested in other people opinions. Is there someone in the game that can vouch for the fact that Esp tends to do this kind of "things".

I do not have history with esp, but apparently Nat does and he seems a logical player. Though admittedly Nat is not the most reliable source.

I gave up reading this when i noticed it was a 5 years old game. What is so interesting in this game that makes it relevant 5 years after?

I did not play for a couple of years. Interesting aspects of that game include:
- The fact that everyone always thinks I am scum due to my aggressive play style
- The fact that I

do

sometimes lie as town; in this game I fake claimed doc while I was one shot doc and it was for the town win. My point is that lying as town can only be done in exceptional situations.

The two posts that you refer as those that convinced you that Esp was scum (instead of derptown) are #63 and #70 (#39 being meh according to you). But you push Esp as scum in #56, #59 and #60. My vote stays.

Firstly, the posts you state where when the majority of the game was still random voting phase. It was the best to go off of at that time. I had no interest in the reck wagon because it was stupid.
Secondly, you forgot my post 73 where I called Esp out for his post 70 and 63. I also called him out for the latter in post 65. That is when my true scum read developed on him. I actually said in post 65 that I was not sure of my scumread on him. But then I read the threatening about not getting lynched and I did develop it.

Do you think you are unlikely to be lynched because of your vanilla claim?

I mean, this game for once actually has good players. And both spyrex and I will see to it that you get lynched. Your play is not to be tolerated. It is ALWAYS bad for the town to claim unnecessarily.

You deserve to die.

Please, people, please don't DERP by chasing idiotic town v town banter and just LYNCH THIS SCUMBAG RIGHT HERE.

You're also assuming I'm making sane and logical choices, something many people in this game will tell you is categorically not the case.

That is not an excuse.

God I hate the site meta these days. If you said this in 2008 you'd be lynched before you could say another word.

[ActionDan]

ftr I agree with everything shadoweh has said so far

[sirdanilot]

The wagon on Nat is golden. A wagon on esp would be golden; I'd like to see where it would bring us. The wagons on reck and me are dumb, especially the reasonless votes on me (I don't mind the cases on me so much).

ActionDan: nat wagon? pleeeease?

[Elscouta]

I gave up reading this when i noticed it was a 5 years old game. What is so interesting in this game that makes it relevant 5 years after?

I did not play for a couple of years. Interesting aspects of that game include:
- The fact that everyone always thinks I am scum due to my aggressive play style
- The fact that I

do

sometimes lie as town; in this game I fake claimed doc while I was one shot doc and it was for the town win. My point is that lying as town can only be done in exceptional situations.

Let set aside the Esp issue for a moment. (For the record, I don't really buy your explanations but I don't see much more to say regarding it)

But this quoted thing is so bad i want to underline it for everyone.

Did you

really

link to a 5 years old game, and ask people to read it (supposedly because it would bring great insight) because:
1/ It shows you being wagoned because you are aggressive (aka a self-provided meta defence, based on an old game, on something that every single person can claim - i mean, who has never been wagoned because he was aggressive in a game?)
2/ because it shows you can lie as town (... which is totally irrelevant?)

[Elscouta]

Regarding Nat, i'm officially fence-sitting(tm). I have no clue what to make of his posts.

[Espeonage]

Not to mention hypocritical given his previous stance that he supports a sitewide policy of Lynch all Liars.

[sirdanilot]

Esp, if you had read what I said you would have known that nobody discovered my lie in that game until the game ended.

And you know what, I don't think people are going to lynch you in this game because people have forgotten how to play mafia properly: by lynching people who are deliberately doing anti-town things, that will only EVER hurt the town and do ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD.

I am done defending myself.

Els: Okay, so you read me scum. Okay. We got it. And you're fence sitting on nat. Any other reads?

[Espeonage]

Nice way to put the burden of proof on yourself in saying that every early day 1 vanilla claim is an anti-town action.

[sirdanilot]

I have explained why it is anti twn, Esp.

I suppose you're from after the age of Lynch All Liars because you joined in 2009?

[Elscouta]

Els: Okay, so you read me scum. Okay. We got it. And you're fence sitting on nat. Any other reads?

No one else in the game gave me serious vibes one way or another. Among the weak opinions:
- slight scum on SpyreX, because his attack can be faked.
- slight unhappyness on ABR, because of his mindless /follow votes. Unsure if i read it as scum though.
- slight town on Esp. That's my usual read of early vanilla claims. Partly pending upon confirmation/deny of Natirasha remark "Esp is normally a logical player", but even if it is confirmed, i tend to examine these claims only a bit later in the game, when we can have a better grasp of the situation. I definitely do not want to question whether Esp could be town lying now.
- (very) slight townishness on Tierce, cause i don't know. I will say guts.

[Espeonage]

Reck has previously commented on my post return play as less than ordinary iirc.

But alot of stuffs comes from ongoing games, so feel free to come back to my sanity at a later date when others can cite.

@Sirdan: Nah, I caught it. I just flat out disagreed. I prefer LML, Lynch most liars.

[sirdanilot]

You got your reads pretty right, except for your read on me and I think esp. I read you as town currently.

Would like to hear more from ABR.

[shos]

sirdanilot, you are taking lynch all liars to the very super hyper extremeties, and this is wrong and bad. you lynch a liar if his lie is actually hurting/confusing/etc town. if a PGO lies and claims cop, and then scum shoot him and die, do you still lynch him?

the VT claim is far, far, FAAAR from being anything nearing worth lynching.

[shos]

Shadow - nat is not playing this way usually.

[shos]

The wagon on Nat is golden. A wagon on

esp

me would be golden; I'd like to see where it would bring us. The wagons on reck and

me

esp are dumb

fixed that for you.

my current reads:
Natirasha scum.
sirdanilot scummy. possible link to ActionDan.


elscout is town.
ALL the rest ar null.

[ActionDan]

ActionDan: nat wagon? pleeeease?

that's where im voting

[sirdanilot]

Yeah that was a RVS vote, but you read nat scum I presume?

[shos]

note to self:
if any one of AD and Sirdanilot is scum, the other is too.

[chamber]

This game is starting to hurt ._.

[ActionDan]

^ by that logic Sirdanilot is town. But that was known by me already.

And I have bad feelings about nat yes. not super 110% omg he's scum ones though.

pedit: probably because your vote is on shadoweh and she's probably town and you are probably about to go through the 5 stages.

[chamber]

Pretty sure my vote is on reck?

[ActionDan]

oh my bad. that's about 1000% better vote than what is was. so gj. your pain should only be mild then

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'd have expected some sort of commentary about me by now, CES. Your vote on Reck was your typical RVS, but why didn't you reply to chamber when he started talking about it? Also, what's with Post 134, and what do you think of chamber not recognizing the first vote for what it was?

I agree; it's weird how you haven't commented on your play yet.

[sirdanilot]

note to self:
if any one of AD and Sirdanilot is scum, the other is too.

Meh all I saw was AD having a town read on me right? That wouldn't clear him in my mind. Or did I miss something.

And of course, if one of {shos, reck} is scum the other is too.