Mafiascum.net

↑ Firebringer wrote:

↑ Night Hunters wrote:Fire, why are you pulling completely incorrect meta of me out of your ass?

-Dad

You are normally very opinionated this early in games?

Not all the time, it is mostly 50-50, and in ny 192 I was so??
-Dad

↑ SirCakez wrote:

↑ ɀefiend wrote:

↑ SirCakez wrote:

↑ shaddowez wrote:What defines the end of RVS to you? You said you had town reads but didn't mention scum reads, which means you still have to place your vote somewhere, or do something else to continue getting reads. If RVS ends when you just get a couple of reads and everybody stops doing things, the game is just going to stagnate.

I consider the end of RVS to be when someone has starts making a serious push, I;e in this case NH attacking Zefiend for rolefishing.
I already stated that I was waiting to see where NH went with that specific push when the massive wagon formed so I questioned it.

I'm trying very hard to understand the dynamics of this post. I see two things that could possibly be worrisome but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to try to explain.

1. If you consider the end of RVS to be when someone starts making a serious push, could you explain this statement?

↑ SirCakez wrote:(Why do people always end up calling me Cakey on every forum I go to?)

I've gotten a couple townreads already so yeah we're out of RVS successfully.

(my italics for emphasis.)
Do you mean:

A, therefore B.
A cannot happen if B is happening. A happened, therefore B is no longer happening.
or something else?

2. NH's push on me appears to be tabled or scrapped at this moment. Besides asking one question to one Head of NH, you haven't mentioned their Zefiend-push since then. Yet, you used the reasoning that you were interested in seeing where it was going to slow down the massive wagon? Furthermore, what is wrong with a simultaneous Zefiend-push by NH and massive-wagon by others? FYPOV, why should wagoning on one player (massive) be contingent on the resolution of a different push (NH on me)?

1. What is A and what is B?

2. The Zefiend push was unrelated to the massive wagon. I said I wanted to see what NH was doing with the push and how you would react before evaluating it, since it looked like there was evidence to back it up. Massive wagon had nothing to support it so I questioned it. The massive wagon and zefiend push had no correlation here.

1. A is "I (SC) got a couple townreads." and B is "We're getting out of RVS."

2. I know that the massive-wagon and Zefiend-push have no correlation , but you typed these two things congruently on two different occasions, which means that you are associating them at some level:

↑ SirCakez wrote:...
I already stated that I was waiting to see where NH went with that specific push when the massive wagon formed so I questioned it.

And also earlier, here (context is BBT questioning your questioning of the massive-wagon):

↑ SirCakez wrote:Not necessarily. I was forming town reads and I was waiting to see where Night Hunters was going with their Zefiend push.

Can you see how given the above statements I could construe this to understand that your reasoning (at least partially) for questioning the massive-wagon is because you were waiting to see where NH's Zefiend-push went?

I don't see how either 145 or 80 show that I thought massive wagon and Zefiend push were associated. 80 was a response to BBT saying "Should we just wait around for scum to make scummy posts?", and then 145 was a response to saying doing nothing after RVS ends makes the game stagnates to which I responded what I was doing after RVS.
Will respond to question 1 next.

For 1, I meant A, therefore B. That was less complex then I thought.

The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

↑ tojam2 wrote:The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

This is setting off loads of alarm bells.

↑ Night Hunters wrote:
@GL, Until Fire justifies what pinged his gut, he doesn't get a pass on that. *shrug* You seem much more concerned with painting my arguments than actually responding to them. You say my scumread on Cakez is oversold. Are you scumreading Cakez and just objecting to my methods? Then why ankle bite me. Are you townreading Cakez? Then why are you focused more on my perception rather than analyzing the substance of my arguments.

The attempt to move my independent but possibly aligned scumreads to the both being certain scum is bad. If you try to force all my posts to be arguing that Fire and Cakez must be scum together, you can argue only one is town and then dismiss the case on the other.

Why are you focused on the perception of me?

I am not trying to paint your arguments in any way, I'm trying to get a read on you. I see your points about SirCakez, but I just don't find them all that alignment indicative and so I'd rather push on the people on his wagon to see whether I feel it's a town driven wagon or scum driven wagon.

I've never understood the site meta of aggressively committing to scumreads early on, it's an easy way for scum to find things to push and townies to confbias themselves into reading the game incorrectly. Nearly every game I play (especially minis) starts with a big wagon on someone who winds up town, with at least one scum taking the easy vote onto the main center of attention.

So I'm slight townlean on SirCakez due to the amount of people pushing on him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by focusing on perception, I'm trying to figure out if your scumreads are genuine.

↑ tojam2 wrote:The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

That's not why I voted you. I voted you because of the way you described your vote on SC - you didn't like his change of heart in 'only less than a day'. Why do you think a quick turnaround is scummy?

And who is pushing for my lynch? Two votes on me are from RVS. NH has vocalized concerns with me but as far as I can tell they are more concerned with SirCakez.

Also, I am against a Fire policy lynch. Either you think he's scum or you don't, we're not going to give everyone convenient excuses to join a wagon without trying to play the game. Policy lynches are terribly anti-town.

I am totally cool with being policy lynched.
I will go hang out with the cool kids (College dropouts)

Maybe I will travel the world and be a hippy.

You need to get a good education, son.
-Dad

In prod range. Sorry.
Going to bed but I'll be here in the morning.

↑ GuiltyLion wrote:

I've never understood the site meta of aggressively committing to scumreads early on, it's an easy way for scum to find things to push and townies to confbias themselves into reading the game incorrectly. Nearly every game I play (especially minis) starts with a big wagon on someone who winds up town, with at least one scum taking the easy vote onto the main center of attention.

So I'm slight townlean on SirCakez due to the amount of people pushing on him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by focusing on perception, I'm trying to figure out if your scumreads are genuine.

What's the criteria here? Why is SirCakez the "early wagon on town" but I wasn't?

It's not the first time I've seen BBT policy lynching.

@GL: It took me 3 days to change my opinion on Brexit, and there was equally convincing thought each way.

↑ SirCakez wrote:For 1, I meant A, therefore B. That was less complex then I thought.

Well, I believe our discussion is suffering due to the limited clarity one can convey in a message over the internet. But I will admit that your responses and line of thinking have remained consistent, so I am happy with the exchange.

↑ SirCakez wrote:

↑ tojam2 wrote:The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

This is setting off loads of alarm bells.

Same. .

↑ GuiltyLion wrote:Also, I am against a Fire policy lynch. Either you think he's scum or you don't, we're not going to give everyone convenient excuses to join a wagon

without trying to play the game

. Policy lynches are terribly anti-town.

Do you see the irony in italics here?

↑ ɀefiend wrote:

↑ GuiltyLion wrote:Also, I am against a Fire policy lynch. Either you think he's scum or you don't, we're not going to give everyone convenient excuses to join a wagon

without trying to play the game

. Policy lynches are terribly anti-town.

Do you see the irony in italics here?

If you are saying I am not playing the game I think you can't read....like at all.

Not playing the game = Not Posting.
If your posting your playing.

And I have been scumhunting so don't even go there.

↑ GuiltyLion wrote:
So the reason I asked that question to NH is because I'm not seeing SirCakez as strongly scum as they are - their push feels forced. I really doubt a Fire-SC scumteam would open the game this way. If anything, I would think it would be more likely that Fire could be scum WKing town!SC. But NH forming pre-flip associatives like 106 is ew.

I feel like you've asked NH a loaded question and are now trying to push them based on their answer. I don't like this at all.

Also, your wording suggests that at this time you're reading SC as scum, is that correct? Because if so, you need to explain why NH's read is forced and if not, you need to explain the line that says 'not reading SC strongly as scum as they are'.

↑ Night Hunters wrote:Instead, you were

very

hyper about getting my RVS train to get traction. You said you were out of RVS and didn't unvote in 52, and were heavily pressuring our slot. In 63, you are objecting to a foundationless wagon on massive. If 85 and 88 are to be believed, that means you objected to a counterwagon to your townread that you forgot to Unvote solely because there was a lack of information to do so. Town generally don't discourage counterwagons to their townreads from forming based on lack of information.

Your Fire push here is half assed. You ask an obligatory question to Fire after it's been highlighted that we don't like his townread. Yet us calling out Fire for having a townread on your slot "gives you pause". You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. It reads as talk about anyone BUT SirCakez.

Hmm, did you roll scum Titus?

I should read posts properly before commenting on them. After rereading this post and going back to actually see what happened there are numerous things I disagree with here. SC, you need to correct me if I'm wrong because I find it kind of strange you haven't brought these points up yourself.

Firstly, I don't think SC was 'hyper' in trying to push your wagon and I certainly don't think he was aggressive in his push, I'm not seeing that at all and I think you're misrepping SC from a part of the game that was quiet with not much happening.

I also find town are much more likely to make consistency mistakes (such as fighting a wagon against their town read [even though this actually means nothing because it was still RVS]) and I think you know this so I don't like you pushing it.

I also disagree with your assertion that SC is 'pushing' Fire, he merely asked him why Fire is town reading him, that's not a push and you know it. You framing it up like this is scummy as fuck.

You're also throwing around far, far too many buzzwords for my liking and my alarm bells are ringing loudly. Soothe my concerns?

↑ shaddowez wrote:
I'm liking GuiltyLion's posting right now.

Talk to me about this because I'm not seeing it.

↑ SirCakez wrote:
This post is horrible. Obviously I'm going to dig into other reads. Should I just sit here and let myself be mislynched? No, that would be terrible play so yes I'm digging into your other reads. I hate how you're twisting this into "he wants attention on anyone else!"
VOTE: Night Hunters
Fire hasn't shown back up to explain his town read on me yet so I'm still waiting for him to explain further.

Can you clarify why you're voting NH please? It feels like you're saying 'you have a bad case so you must be scum.' Would that be a fair assumption?

Large amounts of misrepping basically, yeah. Specifically 114 and 124. I also still don't like 90.
And yes I did respond to 114 in 118 which is where I initially voted them.

↑ Firebringer wrote:Night Hunters is sure scummy IMO.
Wonder if anyone is going to call them out on it besides me.

Nice. Talk to me about this (my one and only reach out to you. Blow me off with some sarcastic bullshit and I promise you I will lynch you D1 even if someone outright claims scum.)

↑ Night Hunters wrote:@BBT, Does GL's push to attack the suggestion that Fire and SirCakez could be scum together while refusing to address the trajectory issue look bad or am I just wanting to scumread everyone who defends Cakez at the moment? He says my scumread is forced, I lay it out there and GL doesn't say anything about it. He's complaining rather about the methods I am using to "oversell" my scumread, which is a thinly veiled discredit rather than a substantive response.

Titus, I really dislike your push on SC, like a lot. SC's posting has also been pretty decent over the past couple of pages and I'm concerned you haven't addressed this. I also agree with whoever said that SC has too many people pushing him, it's nothing solid, but it's enough to give me pause about his wagon alongside his recent posting.

I am also concerned that you are the main poster for your hydra (Has Dwlee produced any content yet?) I know for a fact you would take over if you rolled scum and I'm sure Dwlee would take over if you're town because I know you believe your general play-style is perceived as scummy so talk to me about this please.

↑ tojam2 wrote:The cakey wagon has kind of died out, a lot of you want either a Fire policy lynch or a Gl scum lynch, and seen as he voted for me basically for agreeing with someone else:

VOTE: GL

I don't even have words for this post...Like, lynch-bait or just bad scum? Jesus Christ.

↑ massive wrote:
What's the criteria here? Why is SirCakez the "early wagon on town" but I wasn't?

Really massive? Just this, that's all you deemed as important enough to respond to?

VOTE: massive

@BBT, I don't know what posting you find to be decent by SC here in the last few pages. All he's done is basically say gee Fire, you need reasons. He's trying to deflect attention off himself. You're concerned I haven't addressed his "good" posts but there's nothing to address. He's defending himself from Zthing's assertions trying to wordsmith his way out of being caught scum.

This whole too many people pushing him (from Guilty Lion) is a load of crap. The amount of people pushing someone is usually related to the strength of the case. If there's no case, no one would be pushing SC or it would just be all "hurr durr" i dunno you feel scummy crap that seems to permeate here lately. I've caught scum before and had the wagon take off like a rocket never leaving until the person was a corpse.

Now, onto the actual issues you're expressing now. First, SC was hyper about the wagon but this seems a little semantic or a differnce of what is called hyper. SC was very vocal about getting people to hurry up and wagon our slot before we could post. If I thought it was aggressive, I'd say aggressive. Maybe impulsive you'd like better, but he was definitely pushing that hard.

Bullshit on town being more likely to make consistency mistakes. Town should be clear and transparent with their reads. If not, they are doing it wrong.

SC "pushing" fire is because he's desperate to have a place to go that isn't him.

I kind get the Dwlee not making content but he has in a few places. I tend to overshadow others a lot, particularly when both heads of the hydra are in agreement.

Can you respond to my concerns about GL BBT?

~MamaBear

Well, I'm not gonna lie, I had a lot of quotes and a vote for you, but then a lot of it got covered as I was going through the pages. It was what was left.

↑ Night Hunters wrote:@BBT, I don't know what posting you find to be decent by SC here in the last few pages. All he's done is basically say gee Fire, you need reasons. He's trying to deflect attention off himself. You're concerned I haven't addressed his "good" posts but there's nothing to address. He's defending himself from Zthing's assertions trying to wordsmith his way out of being caught scum.

This whole too many people pushing him (from Guilty Lion) is a load of crap. The amount of people pushing someone is usually related to the strength of the case. If there's no case, no one would be pushing SC or it would just be all "hurr durr" i dunno you feel scummy crap that seems to permeate here lately. I've caught scum before and had the wagon take off like a rocket never leaving until the person was a corpse.

Now, onto the actual issues you're expressing now. First, SC was hyper about the wagon but this seems a little semantic or a differnce of what is called hyper. SC was very vocal about getting people to hurry up and wagon our slot before we could post. If I thought it was aggressive, I'd say aggressive. Maybe impulsive you'd like better, but he was definitely pushing that hard.

Bullshit on town being more likely to make consistency mistakes. Town should be clear and transparent with their reads. If not, they are doing it wrong.

SC "pushing" fire is because he's desperate to have a place to go that isn't him.

I kind get the Dwlee not making content but he has in a few places. I tend to overshadow others a lot, particularly when both heads of the hydra are in agreement.

Can you respond to my concerns about GL BBT?

~MamaBear

You'll say any scumhunting I attempt is trying to "deflect attention". It's bull and you know it.
The Fire push is completely unrelated to "wanting to go somewhere else". He was townreading me for no reason and I questioned it.

I'll get around to a proper response to you Titus when I'm back on a laptop.

You should really read SC's posting though over the last two pages. It's making complete sense from a town perspective and I think you could be suffering from conf bias (providing you're not scum of course)