Newbie 1700 - GAME OVER

[Ghostwheel]

BTD to be fair you probably should be voting huntress. I don't want to get her lynched but this is in my opinion what an example of what good, productive pressure is as opposed to whatever the hell was going on with thatguy. RC is a difficult read because I see everything he says as just coming from experience (like the questions he asks are obvious questions to ask) but I'm slight townreading him.

Thatguy finally responds and predicably so. I'd either put the people on that whole thing as townier as a result or really newb scum to stick their necks out over something so ridiculous, but again I won't let my guard down when it stops being "pressure"

The people that look the worst to me right now are huntress and tojam.

[cytheflyguy]

The people who are laying low (in my opinion) are cytheflyguy, tojam2, and huntress.

Tbh..I just don't know what to say or who to pressure lmao xD

[BTD6_maker]

I'm not so sure about Huntress. Moderate scum read, slightly weaker than RC. If I vote, she will be at L-2. Is L-2 generally enough to pressure or is L-1 required? Conversely, is L-1 too much that it risks a lynch? I'm not sure when to pressure. Either way, if I get a townread I can switch back to RC. Once I get an answer on what level on pressure is best, I may switch to Huntress.

[Ghostwheel]

L-2 is a good place for pressure imo. L-1 is fine if the town understands not to hammer, which we've talked about enough on here. I put an amount of pressure proportional to the confidence of the read.

Basically it depends on the game but right now I'd put her at L-2, see what she says, what other people say, and reevaluate. L-2 is extremely low risk.

No one's demonstrated an itchy trigger finger yet and if they do I'll start unvoting. In theory pressure and voting shouldn't be necessary until lynch but people need to understand when attention has been drawn to them.

[thatguy]

VOTE: BTD_maker

[cytheflyguy]

Well..at least we can't say he hasn't voted xD

[RadiantCowbells]

Voting me isn't going to make me any less reluctant to explain my reads.

Why are you so reluctant anyway? Surely explaining reads and giving information is pro-Town.

It's clear that this discussion on whether or not Thatguy is cop doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. The last page was pretty much solely about my cop read. Focusing on that to the point of almost ignoring all else definitely can't benefit Town.

Otherwise, I have two moderate scum reads: RC and Huntress.

Question: do you think that I speedvoted my partner off the bat?
Do you think that if I was intending to bus Huntress as you seem to be implying that we wouldn't have come into the day with a plan to get her lynched efficiently with me leading?

If that's not the case, you should vote Huntress who might actually be scum.
And hell, if you think we're bussing? help me bus.

I get a very strong scum vibe from this. This makes it more likely that you are bussing (you assumed I thought you were bussing just because I had two scumreads) and also more likely that you are trying to push a mislynch wagon (by trying to get me or even Town to vote Huntress instead of you). If you are bussing, surely it's as pro-Town to vote you as to vote Huntress.

I think you are trying to manipulate us into voting Huntress. It doesn't change my moderate-scum Huntress read (you could be bussing or mislynching) but it gives me a strong scumread about you.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm trying to get you to vote Huntress.
If you want to call it 'manipulation', so be it.
I want Huntress voted because I think she's scum. end discussion.
I think that this is a strong contender for scum with Huntress because of how he deals with this without calling Huntress town; if he was scumreading both of us together after all, he should have no issues voting Huntress?

This slot is sketchy AF.

[karnos]

About to fall asleep but after reviewing the posts since my last visit I have one thing I'd like to post.

I find the whole "so and so is probably scum" - followed by NOT voting so and so to generally be a scum tell. Town, if you think someone is scum why wouldn't you vote them? Unless they are near hammering (and literally nobody is in this game, so that excuse doesn't fly) I can't think of a good reason why you would be sure enough someone is scum to claim it in the thread, even encourage others to vote that player, yet fail to vote them yourself.

But if you are scum, there is an obvious reason to do so: you don't vote the guy, but you do encourage a wagon on them. When it gets to L-1, then you go for the quick-lynch and lynch your victim... or better yet, you let some poor townie do it for you, and then oin Day 2 you feign innocence because you didn't actually vote to lynch the person, even though you may have contributed to the lynching through your posts.

Does this directly apply to anyone in this game, at this time? It's a matter of opinion, I suppose. Maybe the person not voting has a really great reason, and he is indeed town. I just can't fathom it myself. I'm certainly not certain he is scum, but his refusal to either vote or explain his non-voting is puzzling to me.

[karnos]

Bleh, my lack of sleep is showing. I see the person I was thinking of actually did go ahead and make his vote official. Very good. Anyway, my previous post may serve as evidence of how I think, though in this case the specific part at the end was posted in error. I qill probably change my vote tomorrow, after a nights sleep and some time to think.

[RadiantCowbells]

About to fall asleep but after reviewing the posts since my last visit I have one thing I'd like to post.

I find the whole "so and so is probably scum" - followed by NOT voting so and so to generally be a scum tell. Town, if you think someone is scum why wouldn't you vote them? Unless they are near hammering (and literally nobody is in this game, so that excuse doesn't fly) I can't think of a good reason why you would be sure enough someone is scum to claim it in the thread, even encourage others to vote that player, yet fail to vote them yourself.

But if you are scum, there is an obvious reason to do so: you don't vote the guy, but you do encourage a wagon on them. When it gets to L-1, then you go for the quick-lynch and lynch your victim... or better yet, you let some poor townie do it for you, and then oin Day 2 you feign innocence because you didn't actually vote to lynch the person, even though you may have contributed to the lynching through your posts.

Does this directly apply to anyone in this game, at this time? It's a matter of opinion, I suppose. Maybe the person not voting has a really great reason, and he is indeed town. I just can't fathom it myself. I'm certainly not certain he is scum, but his refusal to either vote or explain his non-voting is puzzling to me.

this is again bad logic but w/e

ust vote huntress or something and i'll sort her rdn.

[BTD6_maker]

I guess if I vote Huntress, I can always switch back if I get a townread. VOTE: Huntress

For some reason now, I have a wagon on me and I don't understand the reasoning behind anyone on it. Hoppic is on it apparently because I read Cytheflyguy as a newbie. Huntress is on it because I was apparently pointing out the cop to my partner. Thatguy hasn't given any reason whatsoever.

Also, at least Thatguy has voted. The entire wagon was built on the premise of his not voting. Presumably that wagon will collapse as well.

[Hoppic]

VOTE: Karnos

[Hoppic]

BTD6, I've tried to explain my thinking, and I've asked you questions, but you mostly haven't replied and in your recent post you mischaracterized my reasons for voting for you. Deliberately, I think. That's so anti-town.

I'm still okay to vote for you, but I don't want to start tunneling, and karnos seems like scum too. Let's lynch him.

[tojam2]

thatguy's vote seems a little like 'cba, I'll talk about it later' and I don't balame him, he was probably online for the majority of those 6 hours and got bored.

I can't see Huntress as scum, however I've probably missed something as I got back from college literally 20 minutes ago, if someone quotes I may vote.

Hoppic, you've just given yourself away as scum by changing your vote when someone doubted the wagon's integrity, I also can't see scumkarnos posting at 4 a.m, I don't think he's experienced enough to try and use timing to his advantage (unless he's West NA, in which case my argument falls to pieces).
VOTE: Hoppic

[cytheflyguy]

Wow this game has gone from 0 to 60 in 12 hours xD (Kinda slow if you think about it, but I mean in comparison to Mafia)

It seems to me everyone is like "vote x because they seem scum" and just give kinda small reasoning. It isn't really invalid per say, but it's wild nevertheless.

It seems to come down to Hoppic, Karnos, and Huntress. The Huntress wagon seems kinda...odd tbh. I guess the only one I really see is Hoppic, so my vote for now goes to him.

VOTE: Hoppic

[Hoppic]

Hoppic, you've just given yourself away as scum by changing your vote when someone doubted the wagon's integrity, I also can't see scumkarnos posting at 4 a.m, I don't think he's experienced enough to try and use timing to his advantage (unless he's West NA, in which case my argument falls to pieces).
VOTE: Hoppic

I didn't change my vote because of btd6 doubting the integrity of the wagon against him. That doesn't even make sense - of course he doubts the wagon against him, and anyway, as I pointed out, he mischaracterized my vote.

The reason I changed my vote was because I was reading back over thread and radiantcowbells advised us to vote with our gut. I don't really trust my gut, but if I was going to gut-vote, it would be karnos, so I changed it for interest's sake. I may change it back, as I said.

It's a gut vote, but it may have to do with the nature of his comments which tended to be general/theoretical rather than direct/specific. Also, he took care to point out thatguy's PR role twice.

I'm not sure what you mean about the time.

[Hoppic]

thatguy's vote seems a little like 'cba, I'll talk about it later' and I don't balame him, he was probably online for the majority of those 6 hours and got bored.

I can't see Huntress as scum, however I've probably missed something as I got back from college literally 20 minutes ago, if someone quotes I may vote.

Hoppic, you've just given yourself away as scum by changing your vote when someone doubted the wagon's integrity, I also can't see scumkarnos posting at 4 a.m, I don't think he's experienced enough to try and use timing to his advantage (unless he's West NA, in which case my argument falls to pieces).
VOTE: Hoppic

When I posted before there were 3 wagons: 3 votes on huntress, 3 votes on thatguy, and 3 votes on btd6. You've just gone through the votes on btd6 (me, huntress, thatguy) as particularly suspicious. Why?

[karnos]

I don't see the reason for voting huntress. Of the people playing the quiet game, she at least offered an explanation. #147

If the pressure comes down to it, I will vote Hoppic, as I know I am town, and between him and huntress I just have to pick the scummiest person. But then again Orange is hoppic's favorite color, so if he is scum he is at least scum with good taste.

I'm torn.

[cytheflyguy]

But then again Orange is hoppic's favorite color, so if he is scum he is at least scum with good taste.

I'm torn.

I should take the quiz thing sometime soon, lmao xD

[BTD6_maker]

Now I'm not sure which tells are reliable. When I got my copread on Thatguy, I thought I was pretty confident.

Why did you change your mind?

After Ghostwheel dismissed my read as bad logic, I started to realise that my tell was not reliable.

After reading through Thatguy's posts, I suddenly have a strong townread on him. Even having 2 votes on him may be dangerous. When I tried to pressure him I didn't know it then but that was a big mistake.

Were you trying to get karnos and cytheflyguy to take their votes off him? Do you think they might be mafia?

I disagree about Thatguy. I personally think that unless he is 100% sure, it may be best for him not to vote on Day 1 at all. If you pressurise him, it would probably end very badly. Despite my normally open and honest nature, this is perhaps one of the few times I will refuse to give reasons. Please do not ask me. If you can figure out the reason by yourself (and someone probably can) then fine, but remember that it may be bad to share it.

Also, Hoppic for some reason still has a vote on me. He said that the primary reason was that I was apparently confident that Cytheflyguy's tells were newbie tells and not scum tells, but now the general consensus is that Cytheflyguy did what he did because he!/ new. I'm wondering if Hoppic still has a scumread on me.

Pressurising RadiantCowbells may be a good way to get him to explain his reads. For some reason, he seems very reluctant to explain them.

Why bring up the issue if you don't want people to ask you about it? It's just drawing attention to it. I can't understand your motivation for this post.

My intention was purely to try and dispel the Thatguy wagon. At the time I was worried that Thatguy was the cop. This was my town motivation. Also, I don't have much more than null on Cytheflyguy or Karnos.

BTD6, I've tried to explain my thinking, and I've asked you questions, but you mostly haven't replied and in your recent post you mischaracterized my reasons for voting for you. Deliberately, I think. That's so anti-town.

I'm still okay to vote for you, but I don't want to start tunneling, and karnos seems like scum too. Let's lynch him.

I hope this answers your questions.

I didn't intend to mischaracterise your reasons. That was just my perception from reading your posts. If your real reasons were different feel free to explain them. Also, trying to dispel a wagon on yourself is just as Town as it is scum (after all, a Townie knows that if they are lynched, that's a guaranteed mislynch).

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.6:

Huntress:

RadiantCowbells, Ghostwheel, BTD6_maker (3)

BTD6_maker:

Huntress, thatguy (2)

Hoppic:

tojam2, cytheflyguy (2)

thatguy:

karnos (1)

karnos:

Hoppic (1)

Not Voting:

None.

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-05-03 19:00:00)

[Ghostwheel]

I don't see the reason for voting huntress. Of the people playing the quiet game, she at least offered an explanation. #147

If the pressure comes down to it, I will vote Hoppic, as I know I am town, and between him and huntress I just have to pick the scummiest person. But then again Orange is hoppic's favorite color, so if he is scum he is at least scum with good taste.

I'm torn.

Activity is not a scumtell. The thatguy wagon was garbage and thatguy knew it, the whole thing was just noise.

People are sketching on BTD but I read him as hard headed because I'm not seeing the scum motivation in his actions and the evidence points to impulsive behavior much more strongly.

Here's the thing about the huntress wagon. Scumhunting isn't solving a puzzle like in the movies. People aren't trying to tell half truths that subtly come out in speech patterns and irrelevant contradictions. Huntress' content is what is scummy and I'm not going to try and beat everyone over the head with it because I want the pressure to accomplish something but consider the following:

Let's not mince words here, many of you need or want hand holding. This isn't me insulting you, this is me reading the things you say about yourselves. "I don't know who to pressure or how to scumhunt" "I'm town and my hands are tied my vote is just going on the person I think is scummiest don't blame me" "This is really unfamiliar to me", etc etc. And I get that. Mafia can be a tense game, and if you speak your mind you could easily be wrong if you're new, or worse, scumread for it. I have been trying to passively encourage people, to nudge them in the right direction, to get them to think things through a little, make an opinion and not feel bad if I disagree with it. In a gamestate like this I take a look at the experienced players rather closely because they are generally respected and the playing field is more malleable. What kind of example are they setting? I've talked enough about what I dislike about Huntress' arguments, but if you need more to help understand me, read through her iso with that question in mind.

[Ghostwheel]

Also cy you can answer your questions if you want me to joke about you but the time for their usefulness has long passed. Instead if you want to help me you can tell me what you think of tojam

[BTD6_maker]

I'm really not sure about Tojam2. I currently have a null on him.

Thatguy should really give a reason for his vote. I have no idea why he voted for me.

Also, there's nothing wrong with Tojam questioning my wagon. It could simply be that he townreads me and doesn't understand where my wagon is coming from.

[cytheflyguy]

Also cy you can answer your questions if you want me to joke about you but the time for their usefulness has long passed. Instead if you want to help me you can tell me what you think of tojam

I can tell you what I think of Tojam, but can you please rephrase the statement you made before you asked me my opinions of him?