drealmerz7's Mini Normal Review

[drealmerz7]

though I guess you don't notify if BP has been removed here in normals so doesn't matter except for BGs sake, but yeah, BGs die first BP is a vest, BG stands in front of bullet/knife, the vest isn't "used up" is how I do the logic

I always do NAs as close to what makes flavor sense

[drealmerz7]

It's a cold and cloudy night in September, 1923, 11:33am. The streets of Boston are a dark and dangerous place to be out so late, but a group of "care-free" types roam the streets unaware of the potential dangers the night ahead may hold.

What started as soft rain just minutes ago has quickly turned into a whipping, stinging rain, and a violent storm approaches fast from the east. The care-free types are caught out in it and the tiny stinging bites of cold rain make them scurry fast down a narrow alley with high building walls on either side to seek out the closest establishment for shelter.

Just a few doors down they see a place with light in the window and they make their way to it with much haste. As they burst in, while the warmth that hits them is immediately soothing, the energy gets immediately tense. The newcomers stare at those already here, and those already here stare back. The stinging cold glares like that of the rain they just left. Have they interrupted something nefarious? Or are these people just startled?

Suddenly, there is a simultaneous flash of lightning and crash of thunder, and a veil of darkness is upon them all as the shoddy electrics cut out. Everyone is silent. After what seems like an hour but could only be a few seconds, someone in the darkness lights a match. It is a male figure and he walks slowly to a table and lights a lantern. He puts out the first match and lights another and moves around the room and lights a few other lanterns and candles that are placed on tables across the room and before long the room is re-illuminated and people begin to murmur among themselves and then...

There is a loud scream. Everyone looks at the person screaming, and follow their eyes to see a prostitute laying on the floor near the eastern wall. A bullet has gone clearly through her chest and killed her instantly. There is a gasp from the group and man makes his way to her, shock and anger on his face. He kneels to examine her and then turns his head and yells back at everyone staring on at him:

"Who did this?! You will pay with your life! She was a top trick! A great earner!" He glares around the room. "No one is leaving. You must figure out who among you did this. You have one hour!" He goes to the door and locks it then makes his way, glaring at everyone, to the stairs. He stomps up the stairs and enters a room at the top and shuts the door. You all hear it lock.

[Nexus]

i repeat, this should've all been sorted before you went into signups. we dropped the ball here.

[mhsmith0]

It should have, it wasn't, so now we need to solve this. Fortunately we have at least a 24 hour period since it's not like the game filled yet.

[mhsmith0]

Nexus, you're the normal listmod, what are the options for wincons with 1:1 town vig and scum? Is that something mod can decide, or is it scum win at that point? My thought was it was a scum win automatically.

[Nexus]

I think it's the mod's decision.

[mhsmith0]

In that case, everyone dead (after SK dies) means a 2-way draw? 3-way draw? I'm pretty sure "everyone loses" is not going to be something that people will be ok with, but some kind of predetermined rule on who gets into the draw makes sense to me.

[drealmerz7]

I think it is all decided, Nexus, just didn't do good job explicit-izing it all

are there any standing concerns? I think it's all figured now?

I did just finish a LicketyQuickety game that was multi-ball and 1v1 scum remained at the end and I explictly told everyone I'd have called that a "town loss" because scum kill each other at Night and die too ?

if "town loss" is not an okay solution for a game then I need to be told that and I will change it, but, I think it is okay?

[mhsmith0]

"Town loss" as in scum win? SK win? Scum-SK draw? What I want to be clear on is who wins and who doesn't in that case.

[drealmerz7]

no one wins, they're all dead

you have to be alive to win

[drealmerz7]

if no one is alive

no one wins

any faction with a living person at the end of game, wins

if no one is living, no win

3 way draw if you want to call it that

but a total loss for everyone as I'd describe it!

[mhsmith0]

3-way draw and total loss are different. Every game is either a win or a draw; in particular, scum would be LIVID at you if you gave them an outright loss after they hit parity with the SK dead.

[drealmerz7]

ok then yeah 3way draw

I didn't realize it mattered so much at all, hahah, geez

[drealmerz7]

in my view with how the game is, information, manipulation and influence of information and people

scum need to be figuring out how to best manipulate the situation to win, if they kill off the last remaining towny instead of manipulate that towny into voting the right player, then scum doesn't deserve a win

hell, if anything, if it is 1v1v1 and the towny draws the lynch, it should be a town win!!! but no, 3 way draw (loss!!!)

[mhsmith0]

ok then yeah 3way draw

I didn't realize it mattered so much at all, hahah, geez

Some people really care about their $tat$

Also in a game that will probably take over a month, people are going to probably be invested in the result just as a matter of nature

[mhsmith0]

hell, if anything, if it is 1v1v1 and the towny draws the lynch, it should be a town win!!! but no, 3 way draw (loss!!!)

If this is the case, then you need to be REALLY clear to the serial killer that this is the case. I'd suggest something like:

you win when all other players are dead and you are alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening

SK getting boned over by 1v1'ng with a scum wtih a strongman shot left is pretty sketchy IMO, but you're the mod and can make your VC's. But as a reviewer I'm going to insist that they be clear, because you WILL get strong complaints from an SK who eats a draw instead of a win after 1v1'ing with scum or a town vig

[drealmerz7]

if SK has strongman left I'd definitely give him the WIN vs. vig. with shot or mafia

if he doesn't, I'd be inclined to say draw - afterall, he's not a survivor or suicidal

[mhsmith0]

If you're doing weird conditionals (if SK loses BP and has strongman, and vig/SK shoot each other, both die anyway so I don't see why strongman would matter for wincon), I think you need to explicitly lay out who wins given SK 1v1 with anyone:

When does SK win
When is it a draw

[drealmerz7]

meh I'll make it simpler and go the ambiguous route as if there might be multi-ball and/or SK and make the wincons as they need to be for that

you have to be alive to win, so yeah, a simple wincon of "you win if you or anyone related to your faction is alive at the end of the game"

[drealmerz7]

"all opposing factions are eliminted"

[mhsmith0]

you have to be alive to win, so yeah, a simple wincon of "you win if you or anyone related to your faction is alive at the end of the game"

If you say that, then SK will rightfully presume any 1v1 is an auto win for him.

[mhsmith0]

That is probably acceptable wincon language for groupscum though.

[mhsmith0]

You could also just pull language from open games with a possible SK

C9++
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

Town
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Groupscum
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

SK
You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

[drealmerz7]

you have to be alive to win, so yeah, a simple wincon of "you win if you or anyone related to your faction is alive at the end of the game"

If you say that, then SK will rightfully presume any 1v1 is an auto win for him.

why? he knows it could be scum and that he is dead, and so before it gets to 1v1 he needs to be figuring out who is the right kill, or he's going to die and lose

[drealmerz7]

but yeah, those 3 are totally acceptable normal wincons, I could just use them

I like using "you win when all threats are eliminted" for town, mafia, SK and then making it a draw if everyone dies