Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[Draynth]

Draynth:
I like that he has a wide variety of things that he's willing to push (Etromin reaction test --> Ircher for not getting the joke --> Harambey for not voting people on the Ircher wagon --> Venriloquist for safe reads), but I don't feel particularly strongly about any of those individual pushes. I don't think that that the reaction test was particularly likely to result in anything productive, and I don't think that he let it ride long enough for it to result in anything productive. I think that pressing Harambery to vote people on the Ircher wagon is misguided; guessing that scum would jump on a wagon is not particularly useful (1/4 isn't much better than random chance of catching scum and there's no way to know if scum is on the wagon so ????).

The reaction test was poorly executed, I haven't done it much before.
I never said Harambey should vote people on the ircher wagon, I was questioning why he didn't given he said there were probably scum on said wagon. I'm happy with his response anyway.

I don't really understand his thought progression on Ircher. His initial reaction here, while it's not something that I agree with, is one that I think tracks logically. Draynth, what exactly were you misinterpreting here? You also express the possibility that Ircher is scum who backed off the vote on you because of the pushback he was getting for the vote and I don't understand what pushback you're referring to - Harambey pointed out that both you and Vulcan (the two people Ircher was considering at the time) posted a similar amount of content, and ofrhz asked why he voted you over Vulcan. Is that really enough pressure to skeeve scum out and make them back away from something? I like that you're doubting and thinking about your Ircher read, but what would help me the most is bringing more of your thought process to the surface wrt that read.

Spoiler: Ircher votes

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

I don't like this. In the first post, vulcan logician is taking a temperature of the room to see if anyone else agrees with him. And once someone else votes Ircher first, only then does he vote and his analysis of Ircher goes from "odd" to "SUPER awkward."

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Why did you choose to vote Draynth over vulcan logician?

Primarily because Haram suggested we move attention to someone who wasn't posting that much. Vulcan has posted a good amount of content wehreas Draynth has not.

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

I don't like this. In the first post, vulcan logician is taking a temperature of the room to see if anyone else agrees with him. And once someone else votes Ircher first, only then does he vote and his analysis of Ircher goes from "odd" to "SUPER awkward."

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Why did you choose to vote Draynth over vulcan logician?

Primarily because Haram suggested we move attention to someone who wasn't posting that much. Vulcan has posted a good amount of content wehreas Draynth has not.

Dude, look at the Activity Overview, Draynth has actually made more posts (11) than vulcan (10)

VOTE: Vulcan
Actually, I really prefer this currently (in light of what I said earlier). Partially because the game state seems to have gotten a standstill plus my vote on Draynth wasn't really accomplishing anything.

Spoilered it above for reference.
To be honest after rereading the interaction it could just be town reevaluating, I'm tempted to try read some of Ircher's previous scumgames to see if he backs off like the above.
That being said I'm not promising to do anything due to the fact that I regularly get scumread for being flaky so *shrug*

[Draynth]

Reading now, fyi we have less than 5 days left. There's too many people lurking this game. Gotta get in here and post!

You're one of those people that's lurking too much.

I'm aware.

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

@Draynth

Can you explain why you lurked for basically 4 days between Post #71 and Post #127? The post #120 was a prodge really...
Also, why have you been so inactive? And I know of answers that are legit (like the one I gave earlier this game 'less posts = less chance for scum to shade', but also 'irl things' or 'I couldn't really think of anything to post')

I mostly post during the week, simple as that I'm afraid.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.7

vulcan logician (2) - Ircher, Nachomamma8
Ventriloquist (2) - Etromin, Draynth
Harambey180 (2) - Alciel, ofrhz
Ircher (1) - vulcan logician
Etromin (1) - Ventriloquist

Not voting (1) - Harambey180


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 16th May, 09.00. BST, (in (expired on 2018-05-16 09:00:00)).

I'm still looking for a replacement for Alciel.

vulcan logician has been prodded.

[Harambey180]

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

Yes, but it is implying that. I can't stress enough the fact that you should always try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you, but whatever. Try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you from now on, please.

Still, even if YOU don't call it scummy, saying what you said could mean that OTHERS will call it scummy, and they'll say it because they saw you say it. I think that lurking is scummy, or at least suspicious, because (in numbers, if you hate numbers and incomprehendable explanations, stop here) the group of lurking people usually has a bigger percentage of scum in them than the entire group of people in the game afaik. Or, there's likely a better chance to find scum in the group with lurking people.

In the end, just saying that others shouldn't be lurking while you're lurking yourself, no matter what else you say, is still scummy for me. And you said as well that you are aware you're one of those lurkers. That only shows the more, why you should think better about saying things like this because there's a high risk of people getting 'mad' about what you said (don't know of another word to describe it better)

[Harambey180]

Also, here's a list of people that I am pretty solidly sure of that I won't vote them to lynch today, starting with those that I am most sure of:
Nachomamma8
Ventriloquist
Ircher/ofrhz (I'm still doubting these two but I guess I should put them on this list for now)

I have to wait to see what happens with the replacements of Alciel and (probably) vulcan, Draynth and Etromin are definitely not part of this list as of now.

[Draynth]

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

Yes, but it is implying that. I can't stress enough the fact that you should always try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you, but whatever. Try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you from now on, please.

Still, even if YOU don't call it scummy, saying what you said could mean that OTHERS will call it scummy, and they'll say it because they saw you say it. I think that lurking is scummy, or at least suspicious, because (in numbers, if you hate numbers and incomprehendable explanations, stop here) the group of lurking people usually has a bigger percentage of scum in them than the entire group of people in the game afaik. Or, there's likely a better chance to find scum in the group with lurking people.

In the end, just saying that others shouldn't be lurking while you're lurking yourself, no matter what else you say, is still scummy for me. And you said as well that you are aware you're one of those lurkers. That only shows the more, why you should think better about saying things like this because there's a high risk of people getting 'mad' about what you said (don't know of another word to describe it better)

I'm flaky by nature and can't help that, I can also really only post during the week. I'm fine with that, I try to put out content as much as possible when I can.
I'm 'lurking' in the sense that I often don't post when I need to.

Saying that I'm lurking in the same way that ventril, alciel or etromin are lurking is completely unfair.

Also, if someone comes along and says that lurking is scummy "because Draynth said so" you'd better believe that I'm going to correct them.
I never said I was scumreading people for lurking, I said they should post more. It's not my fault that you're getting mad over it.

[Draynth]

Also if you don't believe that I'm a low poster look at literally any of my other games.

[Draynth]

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

In the end, just saying that others shouldn't be lurking while you're lurking yourself, no matter what else you say, is still scummy for me. And you said as well that you are aware you're one of those lurkers.

That only shows the more, why you should think better about saying things like this because there's a high risk of people getting 'mad' about what you said (don't know of another word to describe it better)

This is my last comment on this topic.
If I was scum I wouldn't have acknowledged you saying I'm lurking for the bolded reason.
It's getting into WIFOM territory though so *shrug*

[Harambey180]

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

Yes, but it is implying that. I can't stress enough the fact that you should always try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you, but whatever. Try to make sure that no one can misunderstand you from now on, please.

Still, even if YOU don't call it scummy, saying what you said could mean that OTHERS will call it scummy, and they'll say it because they saw you say it. I think that lurking is scummy, or at least suspicious, because (in numbers, if you hate numbers and incomprehendable explanations, stop here) the group of lurking people usually has a bigger percentage of scum in them than the entire group of people in the game afaik. Or, there's likely a better chance to find scum in the group with lurking people.

In the end, just saying that others shouldn't be lurking while you're lurking yourself, no matter what else you say, is still scummy for me. And you said as well that you are aware you're one of those lurkers. That only shows the more, why you should think better about saying things like this because there's a high risk of people getting 'mad' about what you said (don't know of another word to describe it better)

I'm flaky by nature and can't help that, I can also really only post during the week. I'm fine with that, I try to put out content as much as possible when I can.
I'm 'lurking' in the sense that I often don't post when I need to.

Saying that I'm lurking in the same way that ventril, alciel or etromin are lurking is completely unfair.

Also, if someone comes along and says that lurking is scummy "because Draynth said so" you'd better believe that I'm going to correct them.
I never said I was scumreading people for lurking, I said they should post more. It's not my fault that you're getting mad over it.

Bolded: And where did I say that?
And I just said that I acknowledged you didn't say lurking is scummy, so that's also a misunderstanding. I said I did, not that you did. Gosh...
And claiming that others get mad is just making enemies really. I'm not mad, but because you just said that I'm getting mad, I'm actually getting quite mad.

[Draynth]

Cleaned up the quote because it was getting huge

Bolded: And where did I say that?

You're one of those people that's lurking too much

It was implied here.
As you said yourself it's very important to be as clear as possible. If you didn't mean to imply it then I retract my complaint.

And claiming that others get mad is just making enemies really. I'm not mad, but because you just said that I'm getting mad, I'm actually getting quite mad.

Fair enough, my apologies. I get overly defensive from time to time.

[Harambey180]

I really see it as scummy when someone blames people for doing something that they were also doing themselves. I've heard people say 'scumslip!' in similar occasions but I don't know...
Nonetheless, putting others in the spotlights by blaming them for lurking, while Draynth himself has already lurked more than 1 1/2 days on three occasions so far, is very suspicious to me.
I take back what I said earlier about Draynth being a good townread of me. I do not take back that I said I liked his contributions, but the amount of contributions just weren't that many and he seems to lurk a lot. And now he blames others for that exact thing.

You realise that I'm not saying people are scummy for lurking right?

In the end, just saying that others shouldn't be lurking while you're lurking yourself, no matter what else you say, is still scummy for me. And you said as well that you are aware you're one of those lurkers.

That only shows the more, why you should think better about saying things like this because there's a high risk of people getting 'mad' about what you said (don't know of another word to describe it better)

This is my last comment on this topic.
If I was scum I wouldn't have acknowledged you saying I'm lurking for the bolded reason.
It's getting into WIFOM territory though so *shrug*

Uhh, what?? I don't understand at all what you're trying to say here.
I think you're completely misunderstanding and misjudging what I said.

Draynth, if there is something that you don't understand, then ask me to clarify it and don't just think you understand it, then make claims like these. I can get quite annoyed when people don't think well enough about what they want to say and just start posting things like you did and they're completely off my view.
Like, what do you want to achieve by saying these things? If it's for making me agree with your view then this will only put us further apart. Convince me that you're Town and willing to cooperate with the other Townies and help us to agree on what our next strategy should be. This shows no signs of that and is not getting us anywhere.

(you could for example ask me questions about the things I say, or explain your reasons why you posted that, or ask for clarification. Or tell others what you want to happen because of what you just posted. Now, you just posted the things that are 'wrong' about my posts - which are based on misunderstandings and are pretty prejudiced - and left out good things and didn't ask anyone to do something. Stahp it)

P-edit: I accept those apologies, although I expected the word 'offensive' instead of 'defensive' . (just in general, what I call offensive others usually call defensive, I don't know the hell why)
Also, what I meant by that 'you're one of those people that's lurking too much', I was referring to lurking in general. Not to how much you lurked (just 'too much', but there's still levels of 'much-ness' in that) or what type of lurking it was, just that you were lurking and too much imo.

Addition to that: I have seen you posting in the Site Chat lobby during times that you were lurking, so I'm pretty confused about if you're really honest about why you said you were inactive... correct me on this if I'm off.

[Draynth]

Uhh, what?? I don't understand at all what you're trying to say here.
I think you're completely misunderstanding and misjudging what I said.

People getting mad = drawing attention to myself = a bad play from scum!Draynth

Also me talking in sitechat is irrelevant to playing mafia.

[Draynth]

Like, we're both arguing semantics here and it's not useful in the slightest. I'd rather we both just moved on instead of clogging the game up with wallposts.

Who would you be happy lynching today?

[Harambey180]

Uhh, what?? I don't understand at all what you're trying to say here.
I think you're completely misunderstanding and misjudging what I said.

People getting mad = drawing attention to myself = a bad play from scum!Draynth

Also me talking in sitechat is irrelevant to playing mafia.

First part: I don't really know how to respond to that, but that's not quite what I meant.
From my point of view, you were misunderstanding me and because of that, you said something which sounded to me like shadethrowing, and/or putting me in the spotlights. I got mad about you calling me 'getting mad', but not about the other part. Or, to make it more clear:
"It's not my fault you're getting mad" I got mad for that you said this because it is kinda offending fmpov.
The 'drawing attention to me' I saw as a legit play and something that looks scum, but I didn't get mad at you for this and I didn't call it 'a bad play from scum!Draynth' either. I said that it was a scummy thing to do what you did, not that that makes you scum, defo not that that's a bad scumplay or any kind of bad play (I did not say it back then, but now, I do say that I find it a bad play to do that because that's what I think about it)

Second part: I do not fully agree with that but okay. I reckon that that's a possible way of playing MS of you.

P-edit: New post coming

[Draynth]

If you mean talking about the game outside of the thread this isn't allowed fyi. I presume it's not what you mean but it's still good to mention in case anyone else reading didn't know.
g

[Draynth]

How did i manage that

Corrected:

Second part: I do not fully agree with that but okay. I reckon that that's a possible way of playing MS of you.

If you mean talking about the game outside of the thread this isn't allowed fyi. I presume it's not what you mean but it's still good to mention in case anyone else reading didn't know.

[Harambey180]

Like, we're both arguing semantics here and it's not useful in the slightest. I'd rather we both just moved on instead of clogging the game up with wallposts.

Who would you be happy lynching today?

First of all I must mention, I agree that we've discussed it enough now. But it WAS useful because now we've got to the point that we CAN get further.

Well, I've said already who I don't think of lynching today, and the four that weren't on that list were Alciel (who is prodded and probably being replaced), vulcan (who is also prodded and I think will be replaced as well), Etromin and you.
Because 'you should vote for yourself' is the worst possible advice you can give, I would advise you that you should vote Etromin according to me. Honestly, for me, it all depends on who will be those replacement(s), and I'm just waiting for that. It probably won't take longer than about a day and then I'll probably have a better opinion about who I'd agree on to lynch.
Right now, I would vote Etromin for a lynch, but ofc I don't want the lynch to take place right now already, and it's just a blind guess really because you're asking me for it while I don't really have the answer to your question.

What do you want me or others to do next? I do not think that getting enough of us to agree on lynching someone is the best next step to take... I've already asked for readslist and besides the additional questions I've asked in post 158, I don't really have much else right now. I'm hoping that you do.

P-edit: no that's not what I meant, also that quoting didn't go very well I guess.
I was just talking about that you were saying 'things' in the lobby (that weren't about this game ofc), and you did that during times that you weren't posting here.
Or in other words: That you were talking in the Lobby while you were not posting here. You said that you prefer to post during the week (whatever that may stand for) so I guess that what you mean by that is, that you prefer to only post when you feel like it? And that when you don't feel like posting, you don't post and do other things like talking in the Lobby?
I responded with 'I think that's odd but okay, you could think that way'.

- I have no idea how you got to thinking that I was hinting towards talking about the game outside the thread. That probably shows that I am right about that you should ask others to clarify things you don't understand (which you sorta did? well done).

P-edit 2: Ahh, that's quoted much better!

[Harambey180]

(not for you specifically)
Also, remember how I said my initial plan was to try to post less?
Yeah.
I'm the top poster in this game now.

As Nachomamma8 called it: "Fuck strategy"

[Ventriloquist]

To be honest Fallout Mafia has leeched my time, didn't expect it to explode so hard. But looks like I'm headed for an early exit there so - you'll have much better quality of posts from me soon (if I'm still around here that is).

[Harambey180]

Umm, do not talk about ongoing games???

[Ventriloquist]

Umm, do not talk about ongoing games???

I thought it was ok if there weren't any spoilers? Well this isn't going well for me is it...

[Harambey180]

Nope!

[Ventriloquist]

I guess there is that bold text at the top of the forum saying discussion of ongoing games is not allowed...

...awkward

so do I get banned now, or a warning or...?

[Draynth]

You should be fine.
If you're not if you can say something just pm a mod.
General rule of thumb is just don't mention it at all, it's easier that way.

[Ircher]

Sorry, I'm still kinda getting reads on this game. The reads below go up to 100.
​

Spoiler: Reads to post 100

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Nachomamma8

(+65%) - He makes many good observations when he posts. I also like how he acknowledges alternative views (such as in 98) even if he does not necessarily agree with them.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)

Etromin

(+8%) - 70 has a town!vibe to it.

Crepppy

Ventriloquist

(0%) - No read currently.

Draynth

(-3%) - I feel 51 across as super accusatory, perhaps a bit too much.

Alciel

(-5%) - RVS L-1 vote is notable but not alignment-indicative (21). Explanation in 29 fits the "This is an RVS vote" narrative, but it also raises the question why didn't seem to consider the L-1 aspect of their vote. 44 seems consistent with the reasons they give earlier, but I'm starting to get a scum!vibe overall (not a strong one--very weak, but there) from the voting logic being used.

Ofrhz

(-20%) - I really don't understand why Ofrhz appears to not really acknowledge the possibility of Alciel's vote being RVS; in particular, they are still voting Alciel even at 63 with seemingly zero thought towards the idea.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)

Harambey180

(+45%) - I really like how he responded to his wagon in 35. Some decent reads in 69; however, I agree with Draynth that there really was no need to try to slow down/stop my wagon while I was gone. In general, his posts have been good, and I really like how he is trying to keep the gamestate moving.

Vulcan Logician

(-55%) - His beginning was fine, and I definitely read too much into his joke. That aside though, 53 is scummy in multiple ways, and is enough by itself to warrant a full-fledged scumread. 56 seems pointless, and not just pointless in a null way, but actually a scummy way.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)

​​

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Spoiler: How to read this readslist

Players are placed in different sections based on my confidence in the read expressed as a percentage. A positive percentage indicates that I leans towards town on a player whereas a negative percentage indicates I lean towards scum on a player. Please note that the Null an Neutral sections contain both townreads and scumreads and you must look a the sign of the percentage in parenthesis to determine which way I lean.

Confidence ratings are rough estimates and are relative to one another. In addition, they tend to be scored on a logarithmic scale versus a linear scale; in other words, the difference between 0% and 30% tends to be greater than ther difference between 30% and 60%.