In post 93, Raya36 wrote:@sash and reaper
Either of you have any thoughts on the bji/clemency exchange?
I thought bji appeared a lot more scummy to me than Clemency
Tunneling over a single idea, so soon, appears a lot more scummy than Clemency's posting.
I must also say that I don't take what happens in RVS too seriously either. It's the time of the game when people get to know each other and when rookie scums vote their partner to distance each other
You're right
I sort of agree. I think bji might've been genuinely just trying to get us out of rvs plus it did work. But I do see where you're coming from. Could've been scum trying to put some early sus on a towny. Clemency's reaction as I said seemed genuine, I'm just not sure from which alignment. Both could react this way when frustrated imo.
this post feels kinda fence-sitty to me, on both bji and clemency
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garmr maybe town?
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In post 132, Raya36 wrote:-I think his playstyle makes him lynchbaity/easy to mislynch
why does clemency strike you as lynchbait-y?
In post 132, Raya36 wrote:-bji had a good point about him being a 'chatty opener'. It is possible for scum to open chatty so they can easily get a town leading role and it is possible he was faking reluctancy ot taking this role. This is when I started to hesitate on him being town for sure but alone this is a weak reason to scum read someone.
yeah but he said he doesn't like the town-leading role so i still don't get why he'd purposefully put himself in that position
In post 132, Raya36 wrote:Bji:
-Seemed to be putting in a genuine effort to get us out of rvs (town points)
-His 'attack' on clemency was weak but it was good for the start of the game and did bring out some interesting reactions (town points)
-did have a good point about him being a 'chatty opener'
-Like Clemency seemed intent on starting the game. Something scum would likely not do as I explained above. (Town points)
-I also did consider he could've been trying to put some sus on clemency but I'm not convinced this is the case
what's your holistic read on bji?
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In post 138, Irrelephant11 wrote:garmr/skitter definitely town
clemency/bji/sashaddin prob town VOTE: raya
why am i town? why do you think sashaddin is prob town?
why do you think clemency v bji is tvt?
In post 138, Irrelephant11 wrote:garmr/skitter definitely town
clemency/bji/sashaddin prob town VOTE: raya
Terrible entrance, non effort reads. Scum or worthless town, kill it either way.
UNVOTE: Clemency VOTE: Irrelephant11
a) why are these reads non-effort?
b) why are you basically proposing a pl on this - 'scum or worthless town', you don't seem to care which it is? (i don't inherently believe that this has to come from scum or worthless town)
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In post 149, bji wrote:I fell justified in calling that a "fairly safe read list", in that it didn't express any opinion that anyone had indicated any likelihood of disagreeing on.
i wouldn't really call it safe - imo most of those reads hadn't been stated anywhere so he was being original; usually when i hear 'safe readslist' it's because someone's reads conform to thread consensus but that consensus hasn't happened yet
altought reading more i think you're not using it in that sense - you're using 'safe' to mean 'unexplained and can thus be changed easily without being called out on walking back on reasoning', yeah?
i think at least part of this argument might stem from the fact that you haven't played super recently and might not be familiar with the connotation current players associate with the term 'safe reads' - reads that match thread consensus
yeah ok that's what i think upon reading more from you
i don't really think the safe v consensus reads thing means much; it's a difference in terminilony that led to confusion imo
i do think that you calling him 'scum or worthless town' and pushing for a lynch on him feels a little policy-y to me and that i didn't really like
In post 171, bji wrote:I never stated a read, was quite clear to say that the player was either scum or incompetent town.
ie this ^^^^^ i don't like that you want to lynch him irregardless of which he is
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In post 162, bji wrote:I am now completely losing in my fight against walling
it's a fight i manage to lose each and every game
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In post 163, Lady Angel wrote:The following players have not posted since the last votecount and will be prodded if they have not posted before the next one, unless they are V/LA: Skitter30 (V/LA)
sorry, was traveling; i shold be around more now besides for weekends (fridays and saturdays)
you feel like you're active lurking; you have like no original thoughts
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In post 172, Irrelephant11 wrote:Seems like you only want to approach this game from a "I don't make mistakes, and scum will out themselves by interacting with me" which is honestly *not* an ideal playstyles imo but probably doesn't deserve a scumread on its own
i think he has a prickly/confusing playstyle but i don't find most of what he said scummy besides for the pl thing i raised above
just a little hard to parse what he's actually getting at
i think he's played not-in-recent games so he has slightly different terminiology that is confusing people slightly, but pretty much everything he's said is internally consistent once he's explained it more
I don't think of him as being 'riled up' in the same sense that you and Garmr have been because he basically just shut down, whereas you guys are actively posting and still being interactive.
I get the feeling that Clemency was hoping for a very casual game where people would make jokes and talk about literature and stuff. People are still welcome to do that, it's not my intention to turn this game into something that people don't enjoy. But they'll have to actually post if they want that to happen because when I'm one of the only active people, the game is going to be more serious, because that's how I play it.
So to be clear here: I have a town read on Clemency after our interaction. I think that if he really were scum he would have worked harder to defend himself and stay active in the game instead of turtling there.
How do you feel about Garmr piggy-backing on my frustration with you? If I'm town, how do you read him?
I was hoping to see how things played out a bit further before saying this but I think now is probably most appropriate: I am not sure my reads on Garmr can ever be trusted. I
want
Garmr to be scum and I want to lynch him. Garmr is the only player in this game that I have ever knowingly played with before, and I do not want to create bad blood here so early in the game, but it was not a pleasant experience.
That being said, I don't have a strong opinion on Garmr's alignment yet. Of course I don't like our interaction, because I don't like being accused of being scum, and I really don't like the reasoning he used, but town can easily do that as well as scum.
In post 138, Irrelephant11 wrote:garmr/skitter definitely town
clemency/bji/sashaddin prob town VOTE: raya
Terrible entrance, non effort reads. Scum or worthless town, kill it either way.
UNVOTE: Clemency VOTE: Irrelephant11
a) why are these reads non-effort?
I think you basically answered the question yourself later in your post, but the categorization of "non-effort" was based on two concepts: 1) that the reads were not explained at all, which is pretty non-effort, and 2) the reads could, as I have stated before, be described to a degree as just echoing reads that had already been made in the thread (with regards to me and Clemency) and that would likely not cause alot of controversy, thus not *inviting* the effort that is required for defending unusual reads. I also mentioned that I just plain didn't understand the raya read/vote but that I figured it had something to do with the 'lol' post that I didn't understand until later.
But really, more importantly, I wasn't trying to make a super coherent argument there, I was just trying to probe Irrelephant for reaction and prevent him from playing a low effort scum game if that was in fact his game plan.
b) why are you basically proposing a pl on this - 'scum or worthless town', you don't seem to care which it is? (i don't inherently believe that this has to come from scum or worthless town)
Two reasons: like I said, to create a reaction, both from irrelephant, and from others; and also, because I really genuinely do think that town is better played actively and with consensus-building text, rather than just short read lists and little communication, so while I would not lynch a town irrelephant just because he was not being super communicative, I wanted to make a clear statement that I personally want to see more from town.
OK now is the point where I need to take a step back from this game because I am starting to overwhelm the post count, which is not good for anybody.
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:56 am
by Irrelephant11
In post 175, skitter30 wrote:why am i town? why do you think sashaddin is prob town?
why do you think clemency v bji is tvt?
I think you're town because I liked your mini-interrogation of bji in your first long post, as well as agreeing with early gut-town pings of clemency
also I probably would have written
In post 103, skitter30 wrote:i feel like you're looking for an inconsistency to push him for here
i don't know why anything you highlighted is indicative of 'scum playing a chatty opener'
and if he thinks leading is his worst townie trait it makes sense to me that he'd complain about being in that position
if you hadn't written it by the time I entered the thread
Basically light mindmelding which was an accurate reason to read you in coalition so I'm trying to give it some weight this time too
I think sashaddin is prob town because they townread clemency more than bji out of their argument, which I did as well. Could have an agenda, but fmpov it's the natural town reaction to the argument. Not sure I love anything other than 99 in retrospect, though
I think bji v clemency is tvt because I think clemency's reaction is pretty towny (don't think scum share that they considered repping out because of pressure) and the first person to make the game more serious is >rand town
I waffle on bji as you can see though because I don't love their tone (overly aggressive, says it's to make scum uncomfortable but definitely has an agenda-y feel, but otoh "making scum uncomfortable" might be the whole agenda), but I think I'll get over that soon and see the slot more clearly
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:09 am
by Clemency
i'm here, i'm reading, i just don't say anything when i don't have anything to say
this doesn't feel like the air where i can joke around so i'm gonna try to bring original thought to the table once i have some
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:11 am
by Irrelephant11
you should joke around this game got toooo serious
In post 170, Garmr wrote:
That being said
-You are conscious of your appearance and you are constantly trying to push that your aggressiveness makes you town.
Mischaracterization. My statements were an accurate description of the tact I have taken in response to your insinuation that there was something disingenuous about the "reaching" positions I had taken previously.
-You jumped from a scum read to a null read while shading the fuck out the null read slot.
This is just patently false. I never stated a read, was quite clear to say that the player was either scum or incompetent town. I have never stated a clear read on irrelephant one way or another, and certainly not flip flopped on it. And one man's 'shading' is another man's 'scumhunting' so ...
-You ignored the point above when I mentioned it and pushed even harder that you are winning the game for town painting a picture.
Which point was that again?
-Your points are reacy.
At this point in the game, *every* argument is going to look reachy because there is so little evidence for anything to be based on. Everyone playing this game should be aware of this. You should be aware of this.
All
of your points, including this one, are reachy for the same reason.
1.It's not mischaracterisation as it is obvious you are being aware of what you are trying to portray.
2.No offence but do you have rocks for brains? You say that you have no read on the slot as it goes either way, Null means zero so you have a null read on the slot. Null read on this site means undecided where to put them basically not that you have no opinion at all.
3.The fact you jumped from a scum read to a null read.
4.None of my points are reachy. My point of you being reachy isn't reachy because it's a true statement you admitted to. My point of you being aware of the image isn't reachy because you show it in 165, My point of you jumping from a scum read to a null read isn't reachy because it's fucking true.
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:52 am
by Garmr
Oh I remember you now your that guy who talked shit to me and piskop, while being utterly wrong in game. Despite me fake claiming cop that game on town, my fake claim made it kinda obvious who scum were after that point and put town in a postion to win.
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:04 pm
by bji
In post 185, Garmr wrote:Oh I remember you now your that guy who talked shit to me and piskop, while being utterly wrong in game. Despite me fake claiming cop that game on town, my fake claim made it kinda obvious who scum were after that point and put town in a postion to win.
Let's not get into the details, they are irrelevant here.
In post 185, Garmr wrote:Oh I remember you now your that guy who talked shit to me and piskop, while being utterly wrong in game. Despite me fake claiming cop that game on town, my fake claim made it kinda obvious who scum were after that point and put town in a postion to win.
Let's not get into the details, they are irrelevant here.
Deal
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:08 pm
by Clemency
oh boy no need for aggression
i'll buy y'all icecream
Day 1 will end on December 1st, 2018 at 3:30 PM PST or 17 days, 23 hours, and 54 minutes from this post.
The following players have not posted since the last votecount and will be prodded if they have not posted before the next one, unless they are V/LA: Flubbernugget, Raya36,
you aren't i'm pretty sure; garmr prob isn't either; also prob not clemency (least confident on clemency)
raya i keep flipflopping back and forth between liking and not
i'm really bad at reading irrel but i'm thinking maybe town here? i'm a little paranoid that he townread me too easily (ie i think scum!him prob just townreads me most of the time; i don't really think he considers me a super viable mislynch) but his explanation was ok for this stage i think
i don't have significant thoughts on anyone else really, although i do think reaper is active lurking
you aren't i'm pretty sure; garmr prob isn't either; also prob not clemency (least confident on clemency)
raya i keep flipflopping back and forth between liking and not
i'm really bad at reading irrel but i'm thinking maybe town here? i'm a little paranoid that he townread me too easily (ie i think scum!him prob just townreads me most of the time; i don't really think he considers me a super viable mislynch) but his explanation was ok for this stage i think
i don't have significant thoughts on anyone else really, although i do think reaper is active lurking
In post 78, Clemency wrote:yeah, i liked you but when i see stuff like #56 my eyes go red and i just /replace out of everything because i dont wanna deal with that crap
i particularly didn't like the last post, where he removes the rvs vote; like there's actual content now and he completely glosses over it; like just popping in to remove the rvs vote without talking about, say, the bji/irrel thing feels entirely underwhelming
