Mafiascum.net

In post 1749, Prince of Renais wrote:he created software to assist his play.

yeah this is about this.

if NSG was a guy with her obscene winrate and general competency and not relying what is essentially cheating to play the game then people would talk about her a lot more, yet everyone's still circlejerking over ellibereth instead.

EE if you're going to vote shoshin put your vote down and vote her.

if you're refusing to actually contribute to the wagon unless it becomes inevitable then you're next if/when it flips scum.

Disagree that elli cheats. Agree that NSG far more fun to play against.

even the fact that you describe NSG as 'fun to play against' as opposed to 'skillful' or 'competent' or 'town leader' or anything that says that she's hot fucking shit at mafia proves the point that I am making.

Actually
I'm going to case FA/Jingle now PR, I'm not derailing your wagon but I feel like if I try to push this D3 I'll have a harder time trying to get people to work with me then then I would while ur alive so...

Do EEEEET.

In post 1753, Jingle wrote:Disagree that elli cheats. Agree that NSG far more fun to play against.

this isn't about him cheating.

In post 1735, Jingle wrote:

In post 1658, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:this is a list of names randomly thrown together of people who post kinda weird in ways that make them slightly easier to lynch

This, btw, means you have no idea how PR approaches mafia.

One could have deduced this from the fact that I have absolutely no clue who he is, which is something one can infer from the times I have stated such.

That was a direct response to 1751, but I think I've had that discussion before with both of you and there's really no reason to have it again.

I think Elli's method of playing mafia is boring, but fine.

PR scumhunts primarily through associatives.

And .

In post 1751, Prince of Renais wrote:if NSG was a guy with her obscene winrate and general competency and not relying what is essentially cheating to play the game then people would talk about her a lot more, yet everyone's still circlejerking over ellibereth instead.

I disagree

In post 1752, Prince of Renais wrote:EE if you're going to vote shoshin put your vote down and vote her.

if you're refusing to actually contribute to the wagon unless it becomes inevitable then you're next if/when it flips scum.

I'm waiting on other things before I specifically read Shoshin. So calm yourself.

Also if you think you scare me you have no clue who I am.

In post 1758, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:

In post 1735, Jingle wrote:

In post 1658, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:this is a list of names randomly thrown together of people who post kinda weird in ways that make them slightly easier to lynch

This, btw, means you have no idea how PR approaches mafia.

One could have deduced this from the fact that I have absolutely no clue who he is, which is something one can infer from the times I have stated such.

Even so, it's fairly obvious that's not what he's doing just looking at his play this game

EE, what are you waiting for re: Shoshin?

In post 1722, Dannflor wrote:

In post 1718, Reiuji Utsuho wrote:Well I guess it's "trust me I know this person" case basically.

??

that's a really weird way to discredit a case that clearly does have more substance to it than that

Not really a discredit or I wouldn't be voting with him.

"I saw Shoshin doing XXX and town Shoshin wouldn't do this" and "I saw Shoshin doing YYY and scum Shoshin would do this" is basically "I know this person and this person doesn't act like this as town."

In post 1764, Reiuji Utsuho wrote:"I saw Shoshin doing XXX and town Shoshin wouldn't do this" and "I saw Shoshin doing YYY and scum Shoshin would do this" is basically "I know this person and this person doesn't act like this as town."

I think the most damning part of the case involve the associatives and specifically Shoshin's awkward hop on to the wagon yesterday, however.

Are we talking about how great nsg is?

Tbf I like pR case on shoshin

Votecount 2.3

Shoshin(5)

~ Prince of Renais⁽⁴⁷⁾, Jingle⁽⁵⁰⁾, Dannflor⁽⁵³⁾, Alisae⁽⁴¹⁾, Reiuji Utsuho⁽¹⁷⁾

Alisae(4)

~ Lycanfire⁽⁵⁾, mcqueen⁽⁵⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽⁵²⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽³⁾

Lycanfire(2)

~ Shoshin⁽¹⁷⁾, Vedith⁽¹⁵⁾

Vedith(1)

~ DrDolittle⁽¹⁶⁾


Not Voting (4): Gamma Emerald⁽⁰⁾, Clemency⁽⁰⁾, Xtoxm⁽⁰⁾, Karmeleon⁽⁹⁾

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-27 19:19:59)

　　　　　　　　　

The meta between us two

I've known FA for quite a bit, and I'm a good friend to her.
We also played mafia a bit, most of the memorable games to me are when I was scum vs her town.
This game is kinda how these interactions would play out.
I would awkwardly buddy her
She would feel awkward
I would then push her
and then she would kill me by stabbing me 100 times with forks
and then I would die.
I'M SORRY, I CANNOT INTERACT WITH THIS PERSON NATURALLY AS SCUM.

that is literally all of our interactions, and that game demonstrates it properly.
Not to mention, it was when FA was recently unbanned from MS, she was trying to come back and prove she was a better person then what she used to be (much like myself actually now that I think about it) and this kinda reflects that.

　　　　　　　　　

Okay so if thats what happened, how does that come into play here.

In post 225, Alisae wrote:

In post 223, Frozen Angel wrote:my current main read is that I'm sleepy. I think I'm going to start from there and see how things develop - in bed.

then I have no idea what the fuck you expect from me read wise.
But yush get some sleep dear

In post 226, Alisae wrote:FA is probably town btw but its kinda too early to lock it in.

In post 227, Alisae wrote:hell its too early to be calling her town but that's how mafia works

This was a really werid read at the time, and a lot of people were kinda concerned about it.
But it is tactical.
It's that awkward buddyish townread that would look like, come from scum!me to town!her, and then an immediate "I really don't want to commit to this and I realized that maybe, I fucked up here."
My expectation from town her is to go aggressive there

Instead, I got this

In post 415, Frozen Angel wrote:About Ali I have a bunch of mixed feelings that I'm sorting out rn. But they definitly gave their town read on me "Too early" for my liking. They even said it was too early afterward but I have a hard time digesting it. Waiting for more context from ali tbh.

Town!FA does not sit like this.
She also doesn't do this.
She KNOWS I'm lynchable atm.
This post allows her to sway towards lynching me if my lynch because a thing, or to townread me and try to get me to work with her.

So, I want to force her to take a stance there.

In post 423, Alisae wrote:

In post 415, Frozen Angel wrote:About Ali I have a bunch of mixed feelings that I'm sorting out rn. But they definitly gave their town read on me "Too early" for my liking. They even said it was too early afterward but I have a hard time digesting it. Waiting for more context from ali tbh.

before I read anything gun to head what am I?

In post 425, Frozen Angel wrote:pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

In post 426, Alisae wrote:

In post 425, Frozen Angel wrote:pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

Alisae is likely to be scum this game.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
maybe
eeeeeh
agree
strongly agree

where u at

In post 427, Frozen Angel wrote:eeeeeh if eeeeeh is a little bit stronger than maybe.

I really did not like your work so far about EE read or the read on me but that doesn't suggest you're scum - just need more content from you.

Okay so she scumreads me, cool.
Why am I the one forcing this out and why is she not acting on it?
Overall, all of this kinda points out to this

In post 443, Alisae wrote:If you are aware of my play, but chosing not to commit to a stronger read on me because I'll be a bigger juicy push for later. The way you're talking about me made me cautious so I wanted to see if I could make you commit to some kind of more defined stance, even if it was the weakest levels of town or weakest levels of scum. Given how I went about stating my earlier "read" I kinda felt like it would look more like a red flag to you then what you presented.

and she responds with that with

In post 444, Frozen Angel wrote:I avoided giving a read on you cause I consider you as someone who is capable of going deep and giving an early read on you is a dangerous act.

In general, I give reads when I have them and I won't vomit reads. That is me in every game.

Again you should remember that about me - how I ask stuff and appear to be not following them. I transparently say what I got but I don't give cheap reads if thats what you're asking of me

The 1st line is bullshit. If you have the ammo to kill that person, you fucking go for the kill.
The rest is true, especially the last bit.
She's aware I'm lynchable, just doesn't want to go for that yet, and probably go for it later.

And while she outs the wolfread on Shoshin, she outs it on me, because we both know that based on our interactions, if we're not the same alignment, we're probably going to fight.

Basically, what it comes down to is meta manipulation.
The read on me looks fake and if she was town, she wouldn't have any reason to hold back and interact with me a bit more aggressively.

　　　　　　　　　

The bits Prince has to add to her play.

In post 1129, Prince of Renais wrote:first off, FA isn't some unpredictable rage monster. In a world where FA is town there's no reason for her to be pissed off as she was.
She gets ultra pissed off as scum when she feels like her teammates are making shitty associatives with her. Shoshin was attacking all the townreads on her in a really SvS way.
Go read Antihero's game from a few years back where she replaced out in similar fashion and was super pissed off at Gamma Emerald.

Both Jingle and Shoshin have also been calling each other town, completely unexplained from Shoshin's perspective, Jingle we just saw
Also Shoshin is good enough to not be this dead wrong on Jingle when he hasn't even played well as scum
I can buy people who generally are not super good players like EE making this mistake, but not Shoshin. she's scum

Alright, who are you thinking about other than Jingle/Shosh? I agree the interaction there is awkward, but my read on shoshin is a lot of "wow you're a bad person doing a lot of anti-town things"

And for some reason I keep thinking that she's got it stuck in her head that doing anti-town things is townie, and for that reason I excuse it. Can you counter?

Shoshin is a really good player as town. she's just not town here.

The first paragraph makes sense. I feel like should 100% have a different approach to that if she was town then this.
Like, I feel like even with the whole shoshin self-voting issue being a thing, FA wouldn't blow up about that as town.

　　　　　　　　　

THIS FUCKING TOWNREAD.

btw lets talk about what jingle did.
I read 0 of jingle's posts up to this point but these

In post 703, Jingle wrote:

In post 426, Alisae wrote:

In post 425, Frozen Angel wrote:pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

Alisae is likely to be scum this game.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
maybe
eeeeeh
agree
strongly agree

where u at

RVS town on Ali.

In post 710, Jingle wrote:To ISO
Lycanfire
Xtoxm

To IGNORE
Gamma Emerald
NerfedBuJ

To TOWN
Alisae
Reiuji Utsuho
Vedith
Karmeleon

To SCUM
PvtUrist
Extrapolated Eagle

To ANNOY UNTIL THEY START MAKING ALIGNMENT NOISES
Shoshin
DoubtingThomas
Clemency
DrDolittle
grapes
mcqueen


Groups very vague, honestly don't have much to go on outside of my townreads.

In post 807, Jingle wrote:PVT scumread: fluffposting, no content. Feels like he's trying hard to avoid stepping on toes. Notable posts: 47 402 462 467

EE Scumread: Cares a lot about self image. Does a lot, says a lot, wants to be in the spotlight, but I still can't remember anything that actually feels like he's accomplished something. Universal townready feel, but there's absolutely nothing in his ISO that looks unfakeable, nor do I see an attempt to push forward into anything real. Basically, he has his fingers in all the pies, but I don't think he's actually baking.

Vedith: Posts like these:

In post 348, Vedith wrote:I don't think I want Shoshin lynched day1

In post 510, Vedith wrote:So I pick a vote out if vanity and just let Shoshin get lynched for bad reasoning?

Additionally, I can grok his trajectory. There's a clear intention to his posts, and that intention is to figure out motivations. He's been proactive, a lot of what he says matches what I think, and he's got a townish air of "I'm going to try to gamesolve" while not seeming to give a shit that his stances aren't getting him towncred.

Alisae: Given Ali's experience with me this:

In post 681, Alisae wrote:even more reason to lynch the slot tbh

In post 704, Alisae wrote:

In post 682, Jingle wrote:ouch. That hurts, ali.

always scum dude <3

is >rand town.

Additionally, antagonistic and aggressive stance indicates an openness and willingness that strengthens that read.

In post 816, Jingle wrote:

In post 811, Alisae wrote:T-Thats not gonna make me townread you
B-Baka

Cool beans. Being townread is boring. I work way better when I don't get nk'd in the first couple of dayphases.

In post 1115, Jingle wrote:FA's replace out was a little oversensitive imo, although I understand that some people don't have particularly thick skins. I wouldn't blame Shoshin for DT at all.


I'm not dropping my PVT read yet. PR seems like I don't need to prod him tho.

VOTE: Gemerald

In post 1190, Jingle wrote:Don't worry, Alisae. It's fine. You can vote me.

In post 1511, Jingle wrote:Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen

Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle

Scumreads:
DrDolittle
Dannflor

Fuckit, who cares:
Shoshin
NerfedBuJ
Lycanfire
Clemency
Vedith
Xtoxm
Gamma Emerald

Top of each group stronger, roughly.

In post 1606, Jingle wrote:I have ~100% correct read rate on Alisae.
now tbf I've never actually played a game with Alisae
I've just modded or spectated them
But e's town
pretty sure of it
and I'm only lynching people I'll vote

In post 1614, Jingle wrote:cause it's slightly meme-y

THIS TOWNREAD IS SO FAKE
What is even weirder is that nobody even thought to question it.

　　　　　　　　　

Jingle's attempt to slow this shoshin wagon

But this started to irk me.

In post 1731, Jingle wrote:

In post 1726, Prince of Renais wrote:that's an incredibly stupid thing to say.

Not really, no. You know why, and if you want we can talk about it in a while. But you're smart enough to know it's true.

I don't think you're wrong. I just also think you would be in that headspace regardless of what else had happened this game.

In post 1733, Jingle wrote:

In post 1729, Dannflor wrote:

In post 1725, Jingle wrote:I believe PR scumreads Shoshin here regardless of both of their alignments for :reasons:, FWIW.

feels like these kind of comments are only necessary if PR survives the night

which honestly probably never happens

Not really, no. It's the kind of comment designed to throttle votes onto shoshin so that we don't get a speed wagon and have more to analyze. I just gave people a valid way to not want to be on the wagon, and I want to see what comes of that.

Has pretty much nothing to do with PR.

Also, I'd totally not kill him here, because mafia is more fun when it's hard.

He knows who Prince is, I know who Prince is.
I don't think this is town behavoir.
And this proves it:

In post 1740, Jingle wrote:God no, Elli's boring to argue against.

For those who don't know, Elli is a Tool Assisted Scumhunter. Thats his reputation.
Is this cheating or not? fuck if I know
what I do know is that the reads Elli spits out are really accurate, and people know this.
The day would go on and as soon as he say this person was scum, the town AGREED to lynch them, and they flipped scum.
And then he would die, and then his other scumreads would be lynched.

Prince is equally just as good at the game.

I don't think trying to stop that is something that town!Jingle would do.
It's just, not.

This is my case.
It is probably not good enough to do the job because I'm not that good at this type of thing.
But that is my attempt to explain why Jingle is scum to the best of my ability.

btw only had time to skim through your case but Jingle's #1606 is a direct response to Enter's #1553 if that helps you parse it at all

that's why I didn't question it because it was just a memey mocking of EE

I literally do not care about a single post jingle made tbh
I just included somethings that irked me, but I don't actually are about it.
What I am pushing is my interactions with FA and those means that she is scum, and also I am emphasising the importance of 1129

In post 1766, DrDolittle wrote:Are we talking about how great nsg is?

we're not but we should be

I have nothing to say. PR has convinced me that I'm probably scum even though I'm town.