NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

Snork · Post Post #1775 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:06 am

Oh speaking of DV... I'd like his perspective of the wagons yesterday - what he was thinking at the time, from just before they tied up.

Snork · Post Post #1776 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:08 am

AP that post you quoted of 4nxi3ty's... I didn't catch it until you reposted it but he says "incoming mislynches" there which really kind of stands out. I'll have to go check the context on that but that doesn't bother you?

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1777 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:10 am

In post 1768, Snork wrote:Also pa... where is the rest of your catch-up? Your analysis? Nothing to say except sniping at Nero for voting you?

I still have her as town, but she seems determined to blow all of the towncred Rogers had.

RM, did Luca play similarly in both games? Just because he was scum in one doesnt make him scummy in this one? I agree with Snork about this feeling like a guilty justification, ESPECIALLY since RM was getting criticized for her vote hop onto Luca specifically yesterday.

P-edit: No? Talah and Luca were both town and mastin was Whiteknighting them both. I see Anxiety's point although I dont think its accurate.

Snork · Post Post #1778 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:15 am

I just meant the usage of "incoming mislynches". Even if he was townreading both slots - I don't recall exactly which but I don't think he was - why would he call them that? The statement isn't about mastin; it's about 4nx. And not the point he was making.

4nxi3ty · Post Post #1779 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:24 am

cause they umm both flipped town, doi. In hindsight both players were "incoming mislynches" at that point.

Snork · Post Post #1780 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:27 am

Yes I know they flipped town. At the time of that post though, the flip is irrelevant because it hadn't happened yet.

Snork · Post Post #1781 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:28 am

Oh ffs... nevermind.

Snork · Post Post #1782 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:28 am

(Just realized that was posted today.)

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1783 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:58 am

aptil · Post Post #1784 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:59 am

I used my 1-shot vig abilities to kill Talah . That is why i did not care about who it was at the end of the day because we were very close to the deadline and i had made up my mind to shoot the survivor if the person lynced out was town .

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1785 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:03 am

^Thats town enough that we aren't lynching it Today.

VOTE: TheWayItEnds

Snork · Post Post #1786 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:08 am

In post 1652, 4nxi3ty wrote:meh
vote: Talah

more than willing to switch to Luca if it makes it further

This is weird.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1787 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:15 am

Snork, your anxiety push feels awfully forced.

aptil · Post Post #1788 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:19 am

In post 1786, Snork wrote:
In post 1652, 4nxi3ty wrote:meh
vote: Talah

more than willing to switch to Luca if it makes it further
This is weird.

Explain the weirdness .

Plessiez · Post Post #1789 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:21 am

BipolarChemist has requested replacement.

Snork · Post Post #1790 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:35 am

The fact that both wagons were town really screws up everything I did yesterday, but I think the way to analyze this would be to first look at those people who flipped between the two wagons without much reasoning, especially earlier in the day.

end of day 1 VC

Switched sides.

Defended counter wagon.

Luca (VT) lynched D1:

Luca (11):

projectmatt, Damon_Gant,

DeasVail,

RachMarie,[/i] Yates,

talah,

ThAdmiral,

SnowStorm,

Nero Cain,

[/i] penguin_alien,

aptil

Talah (7):

AngryPidgeon, PeregrineV,

Luca Blight, Snork, Zdenek

,

4nxi3ty,

BipolarChemist

Yates (1): pisskop/TheWayItEnds

Demon_Gant (1): mastin2

The two that stand out the most are RachMarie and SnowStorm. I was actually pretty surprised with his switch to Luca, tbh. I don't remember who switched to talah [edit: ISO'd 4nx looking for something else, and found that he had switched from Luca to Talah - which is why I quoted that post in my last as weird], if anyone, after being on the Luca wagon. Penguin_alien's slot also switched but this occurred after the replacement, so I'm not really counting it here.

I still think ThAd is scum based on the way he was defending talah without logical reasoning, unlike DeasVail or Nero who easily gave me their thoughts on it. I also think I need to reread the whole game with this information and I really don't want to do that. It was a rough read the first time. But I'm also fucking pissed at the flips and I know my reads were probably all wrong.

Based on a few ISOs I did this morning and what I remember most, this is my updated list.

Post-flip reads:

Town:

DeasVail
Aptil
BipolarChemist

Probably town:

Yates
Nero Cain
AngryPigeon

Unknown/the rest:

Projectmatt
PeregrineV
Pisskop/TWIE
Mastin2

Could-be scum:

Penguin_alien
SnowStorm

Damon_Gant

4nxi3ty

Scum:

RachMarie
ThAdmiral

Also took a look at my reads list from before the flips to see if any connections sparked as far as I why I put them where I did and if the flips affected any of that. The above reads, obviously reflect those changes.

Pre-flip reads:

Town:

AP, mastin, Snow, pa

Probably town:

Yates, projectmatt, 4nxi3ty,

Zd

Null/very weak town:

pisskop, PV, DG,

Luca

Dead null:

BPC

Null/very weak scum:

Nero, DV

Probably scum:

RM,

aptil

Scum:

ThAd,

talah

Zdenek (VT) shot N1.
Talah (VT) shot N1 (by aptil)

As far as the nightkills, I'm inclined to believe aptil. I mean I really want to and don't really have a reason not to at this point.

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to get out of the Zd kill, though I don't think it's likely scum chose to kill someone they were already pushing (re: AP's vote/push on pisskop/TWIE) unless they thought he softclaimed something. So, either I missed that or he didn't and there's some other reason he was killed.

I don't know. I'm not so good at NKA and I'm actually pretty hesitant to try cuz its all pretty much speculation. I've seen it used effectively to catch scum, though. I've also seen it effectively used by scum to frame someone else. Ugh.. talk about WIFOM. The very definition there...

I hate this right now. I'll be back later.

p-edit: Read up re: 4nx. Maybe sound forced cuz I don't know what the fuck to do now.

mastin2 · Post Post #1791 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:43 am

In post 1754, Damon_Gant wrote:
Vote: RachMarie

Semi-meaningful, mainly for her awful hop onto the Luca wagon, but I will be reevaluating my positions in this game properly in the next 24 hours or so.

Yep, this is scum.

In post 1755, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mastin, talk to me about Damon. Im wondering if he hasn't been a huge blind spot in my peripheral.

If he's anything but a scumread, yeah, he's been a blindspot of yours. Dude's pure scum. However...

In post 1766, 4nxi3ty wrote:
vote: aptil

for using deadline as an excuse to not post content (and that felt hammer felt like a kneejerk reaction to being pressured)

post 1733-1734 by mastin feel like trying to paint me, damon, and thad badly for the incoming mislynches. Although it could be town suspicious of the wagons. We'll see how mastin plays today.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty.
4nxi3ty is just as much a scumread (if not more, if that's even possible--like, Damon's a top-tier scumread and yet anxiety is just as strong if not stronger than top-tier), and I'm more interested in (re)wagoning him.

Rach's posting overall feels like town, by the way.

In post 1774, AngryPidgeon wrote:I don't know what to make of matinWKing the lynches.

I actually bothered to think yesterday rather than shutting my brain off?

In post 1785, AngryPidgeon wrote:^Thats town enough that we aren't lynching it Today.

Today? Try ever.

In post 1786, Snork wrote:This is weird.

Helpful hint: weird = scum.

Sorta caught up, but skimmed the walls.

Nero Cain · Post Post #1792 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:13 am

nightkills are largely WIFOM so AP's "that XD kill points to pisskop" is p dumb. You should know this 2012

Snorks "scum were trying to lynch it and therefore wouldn't kill it" is equally as dumb.
Snork, wich scum were trying to lynch ZD?

In post 1762, DeasVail wrote:No Talah. You will be mourned.

Really? a well that sucks tell?

In post 1763, SnowStorm wrote:
In post 1742, Nero Cain wrote: Well, both you and Snork voted him right after the whole counter wagon discussion started so its an EXTREMELY reasonable that someone not privy to ya'lls thoughts would think this especially in light of any other reasoning. Though you calaim there was OTHER reasoning for this vote so you can quote it.

Also why are you more concerned with Thad thinking this but not me?
Is it that reasonable? I mean, would we start a counter-wagon on someone just because they did it too? That's just dumb, especially when you're not taking our reads in consideration. Would we start a CW on ThAd if we did not have a scum read on him? Well, I wouldn't. So to think that we'd start a CW on ThAd just because he had started one too, not taking into account our reads on him, is not reasonable at all. Add to that that he did knew we had scum reads on him,
so it's not like he wasn't aware like you're suggesting
.

I don't think that I ever suggested that he wasn't aware...

Given that both flipped town and if they weren't dead then there'd be a large amount of heat on whomever still lived so I could see the scum motivation in not wanting to lynch those two. So I mean, wanting to start a wagon on someone that did a scummy action is perfectly reasonable and you keep saying that his CW had nothing to do with your vote and that just seems untrue to me.

In post 1765, penguin_alien wrote:
In post 1750, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:PA
Come on, I know you can be more persuasive than that...

I think you are doing just fine in convincing us.

In post 1773, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1762, DeasVail wrote: Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?

Why DV and not Rach?

In post 1777, AngryPidgeon wrote:mastin was Whiteknighting them both

Can you quote Mastin's WKing of Talah. He had a scum read on him early but when he come back and "forgot" he had a scumread on Talah. Yeah, Mastinscum would know they are both town and "forget" his scumread and try for town cred but that's not whiteknighting.

An example of WKing would be Rogers talking about how awesome ZD's fake vig was.

In post 1791, mastin2 wrote:
In post 1786, Snork wrote:This is weird.
Helpful hint: weird = scum.

lol no

Nero Cain · Post Post #1793 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:13 am

nightkills are largely WIFOM so AP's "that XD kill points to pisskop" is p dumb. You should know this 2012

Snorks "scum were trying to lynch it and therefore wouldn't kill it" is equally as dumb.
Snork, wich scum were trying to lynch ZD?

In post 1762, DeasVail wrote:No Talah. You will be mourned.

Really? a well that sucks tell?

In post 1763, SnowStorm wrote:
In post 1742, Nero Cain wrote: Well, both you and Snork voted him right after the whole counter wagon discussion started so its an EXTREMELY reasonable that someone not privy to ya'lls thoughts would think this especially in light of any other reasoning. Though you calaim there was OTHER reasoning for this vote so you can quote it.

Also why are you more concerned with Thad thinking this but not me?
Is it that reasonable? I mean, would we start a counter-wagon on someone just because they did it too? That's just dumb, especially when you're not taking our reads in consideration. Would we start a CW on ThAd if we did not have a scum read on him? Well, I wouldn't. So to think that we'd start a CW on ThAd just because he had started one too, not taking into account our reads on him, is not reasonable at all. Add to that that he did knew we had scum reads on him,
so it's not like he wasn't aware like you're suggesting
.

I don't think that I ever suggested that he wasn't aware...

Given that both flipped town and if they weren't dead then there'd be a large amount of heat on whomever still lived so I could see the scum motivation in not wanting to lynch those two. So I mean, wanting to start a wagon on someone that did a scummy action is perfectly reasonable and you keep saying that his CW had nothing to do with your vote and that just seems untrue to me.

In post 1765, penguin_alien wrote:
In post 1750, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:PA
Come on, I know you can be more persuasive than that...

I think you are doing just fine in convincing us.

In post 1773, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1762, DeasVail wrote: Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?

Why DV and not Rach?

In post 1777, AngryPidgeon wrote:mastin was Whiteknighting them both

Can you quote Mastin's WKing of Talah. He had a scum read on him early but when he come back and "forgot" he had a scumread on Talah. Yeah, Mastinscum would know they are both town and "forget" his scumread and try for town cred but that's not whiteknighting.

An example of WKing would be Rogers talking about how awesome ZD's fake vig was.

In post 1791, mastin2 wrote:
In post 1786, Snork wrote:This is weird.
Helpful hint: weird = scum.

lol no

Snork · Post Post #1794 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:29 am

Nero I was responding to AP making the suggestion that pisskop must be scum because Zd was killed. I was explaining why I don't think that's useable logic cuz there are just as many reasons for that to not be the case as there are for it to be. I wasn't saying pisskop is not scum because he tried to lynch zd. I was saying that AP's reasoning for pushing pisskop today is confbias and not reliable. At least that's what I was getting at.

Nero Cain · Post Post #1795 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:33 am

So we agree that AP is being massively dumb.

So wich scum were pushing a ZD lynch?

Snork · Post Post #1796 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:36 am

I don't know; that wasn't the point I was making at all. But I have to look at all the VC's again anyway so I'll let you know if I see something regarding Zd.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1797 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:36 am

In post 1791, mastin2 wrote:If he's anything but a scumread, yeah, he's been a blindspot of yours. Dude's pure scum. However...

Ya ok. While this looks an awful lot like a #mastinpost, its not really doing it for me. Id like to actually talk about DG, why is he scummy?

In post 1792, Nero Cain wrote:nightkills are largely WIFOM so AP's "that XD kill points to pisskop" is p dumb. You should know this 2012

Not really? NKs happen for a reason, and they usually point to something. It -can- be chalked up to Pr hunting, but Pisskop is scummy on his own accord and I see motive to kill Zd on top of that.

In post 1792, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1773, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1762, DeasVail wrote: Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?
Why DV and not Rach?

The way DV said that feels wrong? Its like hes asking you to do some legwork on a PA case so he can sheep it. RM's post was just asking for content from you. One reads like someone trying t ohedge onto voting PA, the other reads like someone asking you to post more content.

P-edit: Fucking. Pisskop was scummy BEFORE the Zd kill. The Zd kill is more reason to vote him IMO, its not a fucking complete case on its own 2 legs.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1798 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:37 am

In post 1790, Snork wrote:Post-flip reads:
Town:

DeasVail

Aptil

BipolarChemist

Why?

Snork · Post Post #1799 (ISO) » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:41 am

In post 1798, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1790, Snork wrote:Post-flip reads:
Town:

DeasVail

Aptil

BipolarChemist
Why?

DeasVail because when I was poking at him yesterday about town-reading Talah, he answered me pretty naturally. At the time, I thought it was smoke because I was scumreading talah so hard. I'd originally had a pretty good townread on him until he started bucking the talah wagon anyway, and talah flipping town nullifies the entire argument I was forming on why he was scum.

BipolarChemist because I really really really liked his returning post.