Unstable Mafia - Game Over

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 5.01

Lynching

With 4 players, it takes 3 to lynch.

Creature

(1): rosterfoster

rosterfoster

(1): Creature

Nobody

(2): StefanB, Vedith

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-04-15 19:45:00)

[Creature]

Yeah, "him" doesn't count.

[StefanB]

I am here. I did take a short look and decided sleep is more important.
My original readlist yesterday was creature-TL-Roster from scummiest to towniest.
So I was a bit surprised by the nightkill.

Unfortunately it makes sense for both players: Creature sure to kill the chance to get teachers result.
Rosterfoster to get control of the result. (Especially if it was something that hurt him)

Creatures role is still a huh, result on night 1 makes no sense. We have confirmation from townies that there were no mention of Creature in their QT. (DT and TL), we have 3 scum (one very doubtful), we had no deadtopic (the only dead player at the time was talking to TL).

I will reread the game and look at it like Vedith does.

About the speculation about my role: There is bastard and there is lets turn the lynch mob on the mod bastard. With reviewers like MariaR, Xtoxm, callforjudgement, Thespio and a backup-mod I really doubt that a mechanic that turns a VT into scum while modconfirming him as town (due to rolePM) and giving him a PR, while killing another townplayer is something that survives very long.

For more I will read some more but need some time, questions ask.

[rosterfoster]

Vedith, Stefan, from what I can gather you’ve seen ways that both me and Creature have been mildly scummy and townie. That is to be expected - but there is the mechanical point that I do not see how Creature could have got 4 mentions D1. It was confirmed by DT that we didn’t mention him and I’m pretty sure Creature said it was only in PT’s so action’s don’t count (not that there were any on Creature). Lich said that nothing happened in dead thread N1 so there is no way that Creature could have got 4 mentions.

Therefore Creature is lying about about the mentions night one. If you find no other reason to vote for Creature please answer this point before you vote for me.

Also the kill doesn’t indicate me at all, since both me and Creature kill Lich last night, as Stefan said.

I know you kind of addressed this point, but scum me does not clear Stefan. I was shading him a little yesterday so it would make sense for scum me to keep 3 non-clears open.

I’ll get to your points about my posts in a bit, but I hope you can see that I have townie reasons, and the mechanical point is the killer for me - there is no way past that.

[Vedith]

I never see DT admit to not saying Creatures name in his ISO but I don't think you ever lie there when he's alive so I don't doubt at all that Creature wasn't mentioned.

I was looking at Teacher's ISO to see if he would have targeted Creature or Stefan and it matches up imo.

[rosterfoster]

Have you played with Vedith before?

From memory, this was trying to see if Pignash was aware that you always fake-claim/or shit early on. Do you think it sounds stiff or?

Scum: Lich

Scummy: Volxen, Teacher-ish

Null: Rest

Town: DT, A50, Rabb

Pedit: He's null. But a wagon there is not productive

My reads were all over the place. I was completely wrong to hard-tunnel Lich. The not productive wagon thing was because of the declared V/LA no? That makes sense IMO, since they wouldn't be able to response to pressure (we didn't know they were a puppet at this point)

Weridy I was kinda sorta starting to townread demonlord before he got replaced. There's no logic to it, but somehow I felt town.

Yeah I don't remember writing this post. My reads were very bad D1.

No reasons in the original vote

In post 873, rosterfoster wrote:
Vedith give it a rest. He's effectively claiming masons.

In post 879, rosterfoster wrote:
But your reason isn't based on anything to do with their play.

Masons seemed pretty legit fmpov as it all seemed to be based around PT's. So this is why I was believing the mason-type claim to begin with, maybe with a touch of neighbour thrown in but some confirmation-type-thing.

Rooster actually looks terrible with his posts concerning flipped Scum.

I think they just managed to sound townie-enough to me with the mason claim that I didn't question them too much. Obviously I was wrong and you were right, but does that make me scum? No.

[rosterfoster]

This seems to have disappeared pretty quickly.
Rooster looks to be open for easy lynches and lynch anywhere after Rabbi and Pignash flip

I was still pushing against DT lynch and for Creature untill the end, but I was being convinced by others. My townblock was right, but it collapsed because Teacher and you were very suspicious of DT. Mistakes happen, it's fine

[Vedith]

As it stands I think Creature is Scum over you.
But I haven't finished looking at stuff yet.

[rosterfoster]

Actually it's less town like than I thought.
Rooster was the second vote but he didn't post from my vote (3rd vote) and the self hammer (6th vote)

Overkill also looked favoured to be lynched so it could be a strong distancing that went wrong.

That's about the time I go to bed. I stayed up for longer last night so I could make sure I got the Stefan Inno out quickly. If you look at my posting times that's consistent.

I pushed really really hard for the Rabbi lynch, and I'm pretty sure it was my questioning of some of his mis-information posts which guaranteed his lynch. It's a really awkward bus to make if it's a bus, because losing 2 scum at once would always be tough especially with the double-cop thing.

Also if I'm scum DT dies N1 for claiming Doctor IMO. There wasn't really much motivation for him to fake-claim (and I mean he didn't say it all, but it took him long enough in thread anyway) when we were strong-town reading each other.

[rosterfoster]

As it stands I think Creature is Scum over you.
But I haven't finished looking at stuff yet.

Yeah I know but I do feel like I need to address concerns you have.

[Vedith]

That's fair.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Overkill

Here teacher is trying very hard to force the Overkill lynch through .Then both Rabbi and Pignash follow on.

VOTE: Rabii

Overkill is at L-1 at this point. Scum me hammers him almost certainly to save the puppet.

[rosterfoster]

*creature not teacher

[Vedith]

I miss teacher :<

[Vedith]

So I think Rooster is Scum.
Given how MyLo/LyLo normally goes

probably means it's Creature.

[rosterfoster]

Imma take more of at look in the next hour or so to see if creature used information said in my PT’s at all. The only applicable ones if my theory is correct is with you two so the content is verifiable.

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 5.02

Lynching

With 4 players, it takes 3 to lynch.

Creature

(1): rosterfoster

rosterfoster

(1): Creature

Nobody

(2): StefanB, Vedith

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-04-15 19:45:00)

[StefanB]

Sorry that took longer than anticipated. I reread the whole game, made notes, thought that I don't need to post them, and give my opinion.
I still think it is Creature.
I haven't found a smoking gun in reread. (Can I say that rabbit looks like a troll to always have both players very near each other in his readlist)

What I found was the following:

Demonlord nether mentioned Creature or Rosterfoster much (which is more interesting for the player who wasn't VLA the whole time since gamestart)
There was a small quote from the puppet of Creature but no interaction.

Both players haven't interacted with Demonlord much (Rosterfoster for obvious reasons), until Creature sends a nacked vote in his direction and unvoted after he replaced. (The whole think felt like a distancetry where the waggon grew way more biger than exspected)

Creature unvoted pretty quick after the replacement

Both Creature and Roster were part of the TL-wagon (Teacher was right that scum was on the CW here)

After that came the masonclaim:

Creature believed that one for a long time, even when it got clear that somethink wasn't quite right.

Day 2 comes later, I hate my life at the moment.

[rosterfoster]

I know I'm confbiased here, but I want to look at Creature potentially using info from me and Vedith's PT N2 in D3.

Spoiler: Creature D3

Two unique players mentioned my name last night.

Likely there are two scum left and my lynch likely will put us to MyLo.

I suppose Vedith's role makes his targeters also something like self-target, am I right?

Which tbh is more likely if he’s scum. And then tonight we said it in our PT (me+you) which would imply that only we said it. Now maybe Creature realises this might implicate him and reduces the result by 2.

Two scum have died, makes perfect sense.

Yeah but it might actually be his role (although what use I see for it as scum is minimal. Perhaps visits?) and didn’t think to change the results.

Yesterday I got the result of four unique mentions the night before, today I got two unique mentions.

Oh, I guess it doesn't include player-to-mod communications.

Btw, Vedith:

I suppose Vedith's role makes his targeters also something like self-target, am I right?

I answered I thought?
I understand the role that I do what they do. Not make them a self target.

What do you think about DT targeting you every night?

Two scum have died, makes perfect sense.

It doesn't because there was no mention of you in my PT N1 but we both did N2.

From my experience, scum have agitated N1s but they drop afterwards, specially after a double scum lynch.

See I'm not even particularly doubting that you got 4 pings N1. I just think that's way more likely to happen if you're scum.

Why would I say my own name in the scumchat instead of using first person?

Quoting someone who said your name?

Not sure if that applies.

Well, my role specifies unique players that typed my name in any game related private communication.

I think it's literally (maybe ctrl+c ctrl+v being the exception).

So you think quoting would count?

I wouldn't count, but I can ask the mod.

Well, I'm not self-hammering.

Yeh it's DT + Over

because what the role does, doesn't really fit it's name.

I remember seeing plenty other roles that don't fit the name either.

This game is Stalin again

because creature knows i spew my partners really hard. i have like no interaction with over at all. for him to think i am scum with over over people like roster is just a scum claim

Didn't you directly CC Overkill?

was thinking how likely would scum!you CC your scumbuddy enough to make him change his claim, but you're saying it's very likely apparently.

In the PT N2 we mentioned:

-Me going softer on my Lich scumread
-Vedith assuming that Teacher dies because he thought Teacher got results
-I corrected this, and also said that A50 probably dies because it denies the result for that night.
-Mentioned that DT should maybe protect Vedith in future.

A50 died, which is the kill I would make if I were scum. I think Creature figured it was the right kill anyway, but reading our PT could have reasonably assured him that DT might not protect A50 as Vedith did not have the correct opinion on whether teacher gets results.

Now this post:

I answered I thought?
I understand the role that I do what they do. Not make them a self target.

What do you think about DT targeting you every night?

In our PT I directly mentioned this possibility. I feel like that might have stuck with Creature and caused him to make this suggestion as he knew Vedith might be amenable to suggesting it also since I had suggested it in our PT. This would neatly solve the problem of DT possibly protecting teacher for his next kill, so seems like something scum would suggest.

[podoboq]

Vedith and Creature have been prodded

[Vedith]

I think I'm ready to lynch Creature.
Any objections Stefan?

[Creature]

Damn roster is good at pulling bullshit

[Creature]

Fails on saying N1 is an exception because that's pretty stupid.

[Creature]

Roster also being anonymous allows free rolefishing.

[Creature]

unvoted after he replaced

Self-explanatory