why do you assume scumteams are going to publicly push for the same outcomes?In post 1774, Farkran wrote:Why would team Amrun/{Chara, Chemist, Nacho} spare Hectic or Farkran, instead of sparing Chara, lynching Bingle or lynching Farkran? There were plenty of opportunities for both outcomes in d2, you only had to join your efforts. You wouldn't even be scumread for any of those, since you would have been going with the consensus, not against it. Instead, Chara and Nacho were creating even more consensus for Hectic spare, Amrun was pretty much alone in pushing Bingle and Chemist spared me.In post 1766, Chara wrote:i don't understand how you can confidently say scum Amrun could only be partned with you or Hectic. why can't she be partnered with me? or Chemist? or Nacho?
I was reminded of your Bingle read upon review, sorry.In post 1761, Chara wrote:i don't TR Bingle.In post 1728, Amrun wrote:Literally who wasn’t...? I tried to bargain Chemist into a single fight vote on him and couldn’t.
Psyche, cats, Chara I think, Chemist’s read was nebulous. Can’t remember your stance yesterday tbh. I think Farkran also TR that slot? Add me to the mix and it’s a spare easily tbh. Especially without me trying to constantly bring negative attention to the slot.
i can only remember Psyche and Replica having a strong TR there.
Nacho asked about my Amrun read: i like the way she's interacted with Replica in spite of their disagreements re:Bingle and fighting vs. sparing. i also thought her reaction to my and Farkran's argument day 2 seemed very genuine, in how she commented on my having patience and mindmelding (which was not really the emotion but i see how she got there) and in general there hasn't been a lot that's bothered me. i think it's telling when a player with a low word-count like Amrun is easily understandable and followable. i've also agreed with a lot of her takes. not really the Bingle-scum fervor but i don't think her case is bad per se and she's said a few times she isn't 100% confident in the read. actually, Amrun, is there a reason you want to lynch Bingle more than spare Replica?
if she's scum then she's playing really well and loosely. maintaining something like that for the long haul is hard, in my experience.
Farkran: i didn't find Hectic's vote on me suspicious. it looked like paranoia and that's towny.
Sparing D3 is mechanically wrong, so... Good?In post 1782, Amrun wrote:I’d rather not spare Replica for the same reason he’s frustrated today. Its a demoralizing, demotivating way to play. I will do it if I have to but I don’t think I have to compromise anymore - I think fight supporters finally are in the majority.
I am no longer 2000 miles from my house and have access to my desktop once more?In post 1771, Farkran wrote:Explain yourself. What changed?In post 1758, Bingle wrote:I meant to spend time on this today and didn’t. I apologize. I am halfway done with reading, though and feel considerably worse about both Fark and Amrun and considerably better about Chara.
Show me some points where you felt she mindmelded with you (preferably with pointers as to where you expressed the same feelings) if you don't mind.In post 1785, Amrun wrote:I have felt mindmeldy with Chara at several points which is typically something that happens with town but not guaranteed.
As of my replace in, just cats.In post 1728, Amrun wrote:Literally who wasn’t...? I tried to bargain Chemist into a single fight vote on him and couldn’t.
Psyche, cats, Chara I think, Chemist’s read was nebulous. Can’t remember your stance yesterday tbh. I think Farkran also TR that slot? Add me to the mix and it’s a spare easily tbh. Especially without me trying to constantly bring negative attention to the slot.
First of all, the setup is autowin if the first lynch is on scum. Second of all, if you want to play a game without a spare mechanic as opposed to just whining about the conceit of the game you signed up for for it's duration, maybe sign up for a game without a spare mechanic. Third, if you want to waste time talking about theory that's irrelevant to the game for some theoretical future game, maybe save it for the post game where your alignment is known and you're not a giant distraction.In post 1720, Farkran wrote:2S/2F is the possibly most similar to a full genocide route, yet you still renounce to 2 flip info. We have 5 town-controlled kills in both routes though, because full genocide leads to a 5th lynch in New Home lylo. Of course, assuming you lynch at least one scum in the process, but then it's also true that you can spare scum within the 2S route. Analyzing spare wagon is strictly worse than fight wagons, because you don't get the flip. Even if you are forced to go down the 2S/2F route, it would still be better to lynch first and spare later. A minor mathematical advantage is insignificant compared to flip information, i will never say it enough, just in case we get to play another undertale some day in the future.
Good exercise.In post 1783, Bingle wrote:Hectic
Replica
Farkran
Amrun
Chara
Nachomamma8
Chemist1422
Bingle
Okay, so playerlist. I'm going to be going one by one through not me and looking at potential teams in this post. It will be long.
Spoiler: Hectic Teams
Spoiler: Replica Teams
Spoiler: Farkran Teams
Spoiler: Amrun Teams
Spoiler: Chara Teams
Spoiler: Nacho/Chem
Spoiler: Team Possibilities (Loosely)
From this:
Hectic: 1
Replica: 6
Fark: 2
Amrun: 3
Chara: 5
Nacho: 2
Chem: 4
Replica/Chara/Chem are the highest priority slots imo. I'm tr-ing Replica, which means Fark is a never-lynch-before-Chem slot and Nacho is a never-lynch-before-Chara slot. Does anyone have strong feelings about Chara/Chem (Individually, not as associatives) that they'd like to share?
Reexamining, my lynch pool for today is Amrun/Chara/Chem. Of the three I find Amrun the most scummy.
No. I'll likely get there eventually but checking the Replica read is the last thing I'm worried about since the one thing we can all agree on is that Replica is town.In post 1762, Chara wrote:Nacho have you talked about why your Replica TR is confident?
What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you can't read me because you don't understand the confidence levels I possess (and that's additionally why you can't read Chemist)? Because if so that's an unexpected one but not the craziest one that I've ever heard from someone who doesn't know me?In post 1764, Farkran wrote:which is badly distributed confidence on reads.
Mmmmmmmm, not quite.In post 1764, Farkran wrote:From what i have seen in your recent posting and past ISO, you have no reason to firmly townread any in {Chara, Bingle, Amrun, Chemist, Farkran, Replica}. Let's assume that you (used to) townread me based on tone and sincerity, perhaps Chara and Replica too, even though i don't particularly agree with Chara. Why do you pick Chemist over Bingle and Amrun as your top scumread? I understand that you are pairing him with both the other two, but if there is one important thing in this game is to lynch scum. This has been true ever since d1, but today even moreso.
because you're scum in a pseudo-townblock and maintaining that townblock is more important than avoiding sparing town day 2 (because of the nature of Day 1, town basically got a free townspare. If you're scum that thinks you won't be able to let town get a single correct spare you're either a god amongst peasant or an arrogant idiot).In post 1764, Farkran wrote:why would that scum player also spare town!Hectic? Let's assume that it could work in d1 to pocket other people, but why would you pursue the same in d2, when you have already spared conftown
So I get this if you're not me.In post 1764, Farkran wrote:level of confidence displayed by people who voted him is exaggerated, misplaced.
Now this is a post i am inclined to like as a first impression, coming from the Bingle i am used to know. Why did it take so long to build some deep-insight thoughts is still a little concerning, as well as some inconsistencies within it which however i'd be more than happy to talk about.In post 1783, Bingle wrote:Team analysis
A final note - if we wish to stop talking about setup spec, please consider that you could have plausibly wrong premises instead of complaining to me. I am not distracting anyone, the very post you quoted, as well as many others, were relevant to game-solving.In post 1789, Bingle wrote:First of all, the setup is autowin if the first lynch is on scum. Second of all, if you want to play a game without a spare mechanic as opposed to just whining about the conceit of the game you signed up for for it's duration, maybe sign up for a game without a spare mechanic. Third, if you want to waste time talking about theory that's irrelevant to the game for some theoretical future game, maybe save it for the post game where your alignment is known and you're not a giant distraction.In post 1720, Farkran wrote:2S/2F is the possibly most similar to a full genocide route, yet you still renounce to 2 flip info. We have 5 town-controlled kills in both routes though, because full genocide leads to a 5th lynch in New Home lylo. Of course, assuming you lynch at least one scum in the process, but then it's also true that you can spare scum within the 2S route. Analyzing spare wagon is strictly worse than fight wagons, because you don't get the flip. Even if you are forced to go down the 2S/2F route, it would still be better to lynch first and spare later. A minor mathematical advantage is insignificant compared to flip information, i will never say it enough, just in case we get to play another undertale some day in the future.