Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[the worst]

Please show me where I’m not treating him with extreme caution

Show me the light

i think you are treating bulge with caution but i think you have a natural inclination towards trusting him &/or sorting later (i do the same like, unconsciously with people who i have a lot of experience with)

this is an extremely important distinction imo

[the worst]

@IV I bet you’re in the dead pt enjoying watching my paranoia. I think this is karma.

[the worst]

in a similar vein, I don't like how the worst has come into this day phase posting lots of long posts, not giving the thread enough time to fully parse and react to his posts, and then presenting his findings again almost as fact. like he is trying to leave people in the dust wrt his thought process to advance the narrative of "it can only be bulge/shelly or worst/andre"

this is pretty close to the opposite of what I'm doing o.0

iirc you waited for andre's take? like i said in my post it looks like 1701 was your queue to get rolling

i'm not satisfied with my andres read yet. i tried to prompt him into talking to me about a solve to see if i believed his conclusions/trajectory and he just ... went to bed

atp it felt more valuable for me to talk about my you/shelly concerns than to spend another

x

days waiting for andres to come back with content, yeah. if he's scum and i trip him up by forcing him to commit to bad reads, fine. if he's scum and i accidentally roll him over with a steamroller, fine. he will have other opportunities to alignment spew.

[the worst]

No I’m asking why do you think the worst- who has been pushing bulge as scum ALL DAY would be asking you to case him.

I’m not even defending bulge because I think he’s townie I’m defending him because this push is weird as fuck

i think bulge is posting well. i don't feel confident at all. i don't really think you're scum and shelly/andres doesn't feel like the solve. i'm struggling to see a solve where bulge is town and i don't think his posting today is fairly assessing alignments.

sorry if it feels weird but like...please talk me through what you're seeing, because i still feel like you're confbiasing against scum!bulge and i have no idea what the sincere inner workings of your brain are rn

[the worst]

Might not post as much here because of Marathons.

IMO the worst asked me to case him because they thought we were viable partners and they're trying to establish that we are partners (which isn't true)

correct, assessing your partner equity is more important than A Scumcase On Bulge being a thing.

[the worst]

i still don't feel like anyone else is down the rabbit hole. i'm ok with waiting but townies pleasseeeee look withiiinnnnn

[The Bulge]

in a similar vein, I don't like how the worst has come into this day phase posting lots of long posts, not giving the thread enough time to fully parse and react to his posts, and then presenting his findings again almost as fact. like he is trying to leave people in the dust wrt his thought process to advance the narrative of "it can only be bulge/shelly or worst/andre"

this is pretty close to the opposite of what I'm doing o.0

iirc you waited for andre's take? like i said in my post it looks like 1701 was your queue to get rolling

i'm not satisfied with my andres read yet. i tried to prompt him into talking to me about a solve to see if i believed his conclusions/trajectory and he just ... went to bed

atp it felt more valuable for me to talk about my you/shelly concerns than to spend another

x

days waiting for andres to come back with content, yeah. if he's scum and i trip him up by forcing him to commit to bad reads, fine. if he's scum and i accidentally roll him over with a steamroller, fine. he will have other opportunities to alignment spew.

I'm sure then that you have thoughts on andre's 1721?

No I’m asking why do you think the worst- who has been pushing bulge as scum ALL DAY would be asking you to case him.

I’m not even defending bulge because I think he’s townie I’m defending him because this push is weird as fuck

i think bulge is posting well. i don't feel confident at all. i don't really think you're scum and shelly/andres doesn't feel like the solve. i'm struggling to see a solve where bulge is town and i don't think his posting today is fairly assessing alignments.

sorry if it feels weird but like...please talk me through what you're seeing, because i still feel like you're confbiasing against scum!bulge and i have no idea what the sincere inner workings of your brain are rn

? am I posting well or are we reading different games?

[The Bulge]

not sure what you mean by not fairly assessing alignments unless you just mean that i'm wrong about you and andre

[the worst]

I'm sure then that you have thoughts on andre's 1721?

mostly a big fucking wall of disappointment that it came *after* i rambled about bulge/shelly and he didn't actually engage my bulge/shelly concerns

[the worst]

? am I posting well or are we reading different games?

i love this
and i hate that you're scum

[The Bulge]

that wasnt just supposed to be a snarky callout im genuinely curious what you mean by posting well if you think that my viewpoint is so fundamentally skewed

[notscience]

I need to go look and see if he’s brought me to cylo before hiatus and how it was.

But I could see him as scum too expecting me to overthink it the same way I tried to make him do in the game we just finished. But why would he bank on that with me voting him for a while yesterday? It’s not like I’d be able to save him from the rest of you. And I’m getting more involved in defending him than I would have thought and I doubt he’d have expected it too.

I also Hate the concept of an all town d1 wagon. He could make sense as scum with you but def not Andres.

[the worst]

that wasnt just supposed to be a snarky callout im genuinely curious what you mean by posting well if you think that my viewpoint is so fundamentally skewed

trying to view this from e.g. notscience's shoes assuming he's town
i think this would be a really messy game to solve. while i was reading up yday my read on you dipped & rose quite a few times just based on casual pop-ins & observations.

i don't get the impression you're trying to sort my alignment. that's an easy feeling for me to have, because i'm having firsthand interactions with you. for someone following this conversation from the outside i think it would be a fair bit harder to tell whether we're looking at ~tryhard shading setting-up-bulge worst~ or ~caught on not having a real read and not sure how to react scum bulge~. even fmpov i'm only really starting to get a strong impression that you kinda *have* to be scum for the game to make sense like, now.

[the worst]

I also Hate the concept of an all town d1 wagon. He could make sense as scum with you but def not Andres.

sorry to throw this down but i'll talk postgame on it as well:
EOD panicky flashwagons are kinda rarely useful for VCA because they tend to be stacked via whoever is online, rather than stacked by whoever gains the most from making the vote.

[Andresvmb]

I'm here. I didn't go to sleep. I was just working.

[Andresvmb]

For me, it's pretty simple. That's the reality. This day never ends with anything but a vote between The Bulge and I. And if The Bulge is Town, I have near certainty that we always lose. Because he is distorting literally everything I am saying, to the point where I *know* he's not engaging me from the POV of someone trying to figure me out, but instead, from the point of view of someone who is trying to bury me. And I have been having that feeling the vast majority of the game. I moved from SR'ing, to TR'ing, to SR'ing the slot (go back and check). But I think I got one and only one meaningful interpretation of my actions from The Bulge, and that was that I was Scum, and that everything I post or push comes from that mindset. If for some reason I win my 1v1 (and it's looking dicey), then I will probably be NK'ed, because then it would be blatantly obvious that I am Town.

[Andresvmb]

So even though I am trying hard to figure out if there is any potential pairing for The Bulge, that's really most of what I am doing, because I can't make sense of the game otherwise. And I have been thinking about it. Like what if the worst is playing me here? What if they are Scum, and they are trying to associate themselves with me to the point where if they flip, I am *certainly* screwed the next day? But then why? How does that make sense? Isolating me

today

is a much easier way to win the game.

[Andresvmb]

So I can't see that. And the appeals to notscience are very blatant, from almost everyone. Which also tells me - notscience is Town, and the deciding vote.

[Andresvmb]

Which sucks from my perspective if I am being totally honest, because notscience went as far as flipping a player that they themselves had called Lock Town yesterday to avoid executing The Bulge. Which means that this is most likely a gigantic waste of time.

[Andresvmb]

But whatever, I have a gut feeling as to what I think is going on, and so I don't have to look *that hard* at the rest of the game to know precisely why the game is stacked the way that it is.

I mean the fact that The Bulge went from making sense of the game as me being partnered with plusJOYED, to just being like nah doesn't matter, I'm still Scum - it reveals exactly what the plan was all along.

[notscience]

This is fun.

I’ll try to reread tomorrow night or Saturday am. This AtE is killing me.

[Andresvmb]

Don't vote against me or for someone else because you think all I am giving you AtE. But do look closely at the *way* that The Bulge is interpreting my posts (and has been throughout the game), and whether that squares with the mindset of someone that is trying to figure out what I am, and engaging with me, or someone who benefits more from lining me up for an execution.

[the worst]

the voices are telling me to vote shelly again

[shellyc]

which voices?

[the worst]

the voice of my Gut