Mafiascum.net

In post 1799, BlackVoid wrote:Hi guys! I was spectating the game but was skimming pretty hard. So, I'll give it a thorough read-through. I'm going to do something different here and actually post walls of quotes responding to everything I find notable and then post a list of my reads in the end. I think it'll help me process the game faster. Also, I have to leave for work in around 3.5 hours but I have the day off tomorrow so that's when I'll do the bulk of it.

Welcome!

Excited for some new activity!

P.S. are you scum?

Irrelephant, what's the qualifier "defo" mean in 1745?

Skittere's town because she didn't vote Gamma? No. Scum probably split their votes on/off that lynch.

She's town because she shaded you when you joined her on Mom? That reasoning doesn't make much sense. Why is her instinct to shade someone who agrees with her? If anything, wouldn't that suggest that she had no conviction in Mom flipping scum?

Ohhh lol yeah “defo” is short for definitely it’s true. But I use it in a slang-y way because i can’t actually be 100% on any of them. I know that scum probably split their votes, but i think Mom > Nauci > Keyser are the most likely candidates for off-Gamma-wagon scum. That means errant and Skitter are v likely town. I think Not_Mafia > the worst > BlackVoid > Gustavo are the most likely scum on the wagon, which means Shoshin and Bernie are v likely town. Even if I’m slightly wrong about the details of my wagon analysis, those four players seem the least likely to be the scum on/off the wagon. That’s my thoughts process there, and it matches my reads of each of those slots.

I’ll go find the quote for Skitter shading me because I think my paraphrase was poor

If there's scum voting Gamma, I doubt it's Math.

Could be NM or the worst, though.

Why is Nauci scummier than Key or Errant?

In post 1663, skitter30 wrote:VOTE: mom

ftr i consider irrelephant's vote suspect given that he was hard townreading her yesterday for little reason and i literally called out all of her bad interactions with the gamma wagon yesterday repeatedly

p-edit: yes, all of those

In post 1691, skitter30 wrote:

In post 1670, Irrelephant11 wrote:Sorry, what part are we scumreading here? The way I'm voting your scumread? Or the way my read on Mom changed to match new information? (Or some third option, don't let me box you in)

In post 1689, skitter30 wrote:the way i pointed out all the problems you have with her play yesterday and you ignored them because she was on your highest tier of townreads, which you couldn't actually justify when prodded to do so

i'm slightly worried that both you and bernie jumped on her today and it makes me wonder if she's either the designated mislynch or the designated bus, although your pair of votes does seem to be indicative that the two of you (bernie and irrelephant) are probably not partners

this was meant to be a response to the above quote; i put a quote by duckling there instead

What I like here is that Skitter shows an inner conflict of “hmm I think Mom is scummy but Irrelephant joining me without a clear progression muddles things for me”. I could maybe see scum motivation to lynch Mom and have me take the fall but idk it reads genuine to me.

Re: Nauci I remember thinking EOD2 “if Gamma flips town Nauci seems ready to say she told us so, so check her out D2”. I haven’t had time this weekend to actually go back and examine me memory of this more closely but it’s a part of my reads until I do

I had the opposite reaction to 1663.

Tell me more

Also how are you reading Mom’s progression on Gamma?

I definitely feel like I let Mom go easy after finding a couple reasons to townread her D1

It's not suspect to reevaluate reads after a flip (if anything, the opposite) so it's odd that Skitter would call you out for reevaluating Mom in the opening stages of D2. And I'm especially concerned about that analysis because she agrees with the conclusion you came to. It's just hard to imagine a townie suspecting you for that.

In post 834, the worst wrote:I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci ?

In post 1808, Irrelephant11 wrote:I definitely feel like I let Mom go easy after finding a couple reasons to townread her D1

I can relate to this feeling.

In post 1810, Keyser Söze wrote:

In post 834, the worst wrote:I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

Gustavo sounds highly suspicious of Gamma not voting (I found it NAI). Gustavo suspects Gamma has been avoiding the game.

Gustavo sounds like another player confused about Gamma's posting.


Gamma votes Gustavo (for being "scum who just doesn't give a shit if he's wrong"), Gustavo votes Gamma. Gustavo doesn't feel the need to go into detail the whys and hows. Maybe he'll add this later...

Gustavo unvotes Gamma because his strongest scum read (shoshin) votes Gamma. Hmmm, it could indicate how Gustavo would be naturally uncomfortable on Gamma's wagon.


Gustavo is still unashamedly happy with the Gamma lynch though.

Gustavo re-votes Gamma. This time Gustavo shares his fully detailed reason. I think this scum read and reason is consistent with the way I've seen Gustavo express his scum reads/suspicions. Everything is so black and white... I don't think Gustavo likes to express/explore if a particular player could have said the same thing as town. It's close-mindedness, but I can't just help see this as Gustavo being honest.


Gustavo has seemingly convinced himself of scum-shoshin and scum-Gamma. Yes he's being honest, but I'm actually seeing this as bad play regardless of alignment. Yes, Gustavo is sharing his scum reads and suspicions, but then he is demonstrating confirmation-bias.


Seems a fair point if Gustavo is familiar with that behaviour.


At least here, scum-Gustavo realises he can not win through sub-optimal play.


Gustavo again points to where he wants D1 to end.


Scum-Gustavo is happy to power through the Gamma miss-lynch or town-Gustavo stuck in confirm-bias... I would side with the latter (WIFOM).

Re-quotes Not_Mafia's post to hammer Gamma. Scum-Gustavo has no shame! Is scum-Gustavo that confident of his game, and of town's willingness to put up with his forceful behaviour?

Here we go again. This looks like too much of a confident scum play here to be scum. I can't imagine this being scum-Gustavo powering through this miss-lynch, and scaremongering other players off potentially superior counter wagons. Like is scum-Gustavo that confident he won't be vigged/investigated/tracked? WIFOM is telling me town-Gustavo here.

Gustavo even opposing Skitter's wagon-mechanics theory of Gamma's wagon being a misslynch wagon. Gustavo is actively trampling down any oppoistion to the Gamma wagon. WIFOM says town, town, town.


Some classic pre-flip wagon analysis thrown in too.

[Gustavo may have actually sparked something here to revive my bad feels for Skitter.]


This is the cherry on top! Gamma then gets hammered. I won't be voting Gustavo today! If he's scum, well-played mate.

In post 1812, the worst wrote:

In post 1810, Keyser Söze wrote:

In post 834, the worst wrote:I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

That is a great way of putting it. I am actually scared to confront this new way of seeing Nauci's whole contribution, as I've enjoyed her posting. I'll be looking at her last (could just be paranoia).

In post 1812, the worst wrote:

In post 1810, Keyser Söze wrote:

In post 834, the worst wrote:I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

Mm i feel this actually

Part of me is like “wow effort! Nauci is probs town” but agreed that not much else makes me townread her, if anything

Pedit: well this is concerning then

yeah but I get the feeling she's posting to get townread not posting to nail scum

In summary, of the D1 reads of Gamma from the players on Gamma's miss-lynch wagon, I have liked them in this ranked order so far:

1 Shoshin
2 Gustavo
3 Mathdino
4 Not_Mafia

Note: my good feels for the Shoshin and Gustavo slots have been strengthened.

[I will try to complete the next three votes (the worst, Irrelephant11, Bernie Sanders) tonight.]

how are you actually reading Not_Mafia tho

In post 1818, the worst wrote:how are you actually reading Not_Mafia tho

I've already made some minimal notes of him so far.

He is neither a strong town read or a strong scum read (I don't think anyone should be reading him as such).



I'll only begin to understand his motivations if he starts opening up.

He's not on the top of my list right now of players I want/need to sort, as I understood by everyone's D1 comments that this is (playstyle-wise, which is infuriating, but it's his choice).

In post 1812, the worst wrote:I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

If you believe this, what have you done about it, since our last chat about Nauci on D1?

(I've been casting my eye over your ISO for a few minutes now...)

that's a surprisingly and impressively nuanced read on Not_Mafia. I may actually finally be getting over my first impression of you

In post 1820, Keyser Söze wrote:

In post 1812, the worst wrote:I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

If you believe this, what have you done about it, since our last chat about Nauci on D1?

(I've been casting my eye over your ISO for a few minutes now...)

just watched my wagon fill itself up with scumfucks. not claiming slayers gambit here but I have been busy with other stuff and I think weirdly it's delivered in its own way.

but hey here I am now. wanna jam?

In post 1777, the worst wrote:yikes there's prolly 2 scum on my wagon

But that's me.

Here too...

In post 1816, the worst wrote:yeah but I get the feeling she's posting to get townread not posting to nail scum

In post 1821, the worst wrote:just watched my wagon fill itself up with scumfucks.

From the first few pages, I think Shoshin is probably town for tossing out early townreads. It's the kind of "POE mindset" that town often tend to have where they try to narrow down the pool of potential scum by finding town. I also think the pg1-2 conflict between her and skitter was based on playstyle and both genuinely believed what they were saying.

In post 51, Momrangal wrote:Zzz
This is great and all but let's all build a wagon on actual scum
VOTE: invisible

This is the entrance I liked the least. The "zzz" tries to give off the impression that Momrangal doesn't find anything that's been said so far to be useful and the term "actual scum" feels like she's saying she's got some really good insight that everyone else is missing. But she doesn't actually say what it is. This whole post just rubs me the wrong way. I think the discussion that's happened so far is fine for the first two pages and not worthy of a "zzz."

In post 65, Momrangal wrote:Cuz what I see is active lurking already happening.

How was Invisibility "active lurking?" At the time you said this, he had already inserted himself into skitter's and shoshin's back-and-forth and posted opinions and clarifications to help move it forward. I think that's fine for page 2. What else were you expecting?

In post 87, Keyser Söze wrote:@Irrelephant - maybe I had flashbacks to a game where I (as scum) felt comfortable scum reading only my team mate right off the bat, early game, and my team mate didn’t know what to do (both throwing shade and giving me a defence via meta). I saw abit of this in Shoshin and mathdino. But the way things have unfolded... I feel like this is too reachy.

This post gives me a slight townread on Keyser. It's a pretty deep thought process and I have a hard time seeing scum coming up with such a nuanced reason to suspect two people. Also, his point about scum occasionally only feeling comfortable scumreading their teammates resonates with me because I've felt that way as scum sometimes when I was newer. It feels like townie paranoia.

In post 102, Nauci wrote:The strongest page 5 reads I have are that shosh/skitter are probably the same alignment, and that said alignment is town. Correcting for misconceptions by someone else about someone else feels town motivated to me because scum would just sit back and let the confusion do its thing.

Can you elaborate on your phrasing here? You said they are the "same alignment" and that alignment is town as opposed to just saying that you are townreading them both. That implies that the second most likely possibility is that they are both scum as opposed to one of them being scum and the other town. Why? I generally have a hard time understanding the logic behind people saying that two players could be both scum or both town. I think the second sentence may have been an explanation for this but I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about there.

In post 109, stungun0404 wrote:i had a gut feeling naucy was being naughty. i wasn’t explicitly scumreading the slot per se, but nobody had voted for the slot yet and i couldn’t see a clear town motive peeking through their iso at their earlier content, so i laid a vote down there.

This explanation of voting someone because he thinks they aren't getting enough attention is a towntell (for a newbie). Considering he joined a month ago, that gives me a slight townread.

In post 111, Irrelephant11 wrote:Feeling currently like Shoshin/Stungun/math has at most one mafiosa. Keyser/stungun/skitter could have as many as THREE but probably not more than like 1.5.

How are any of these players related to the other? Why not just post your reads on people instead of listing out three people and saying there's at most one scum in there (on what basis did you conclude this)? The thought process behind the second sentence is also something I don't understand.

In post 133, Bernie Sanders wrote:eh fuck it

VOTE: stungun

What were you thinking at this time? I dislike "fuck it" votes in general because it's hard to see what the person is thinking and analyzing wagons based on "fuck it" votes is pretty hard too. Fuck what? Did you think stungun was "rattled?" How? And why is it scummy? Did you find Shoshin's argument persuasive? The handful of content posts stungun made up until that point felt towny to me.

Stungun's 134 is towny as well for the same reason Shoshin mentioned in 139.

In post 142, Bernie Sanders wrote:Eh can't even bullshit being interested on this

Are you saying the Stungun vote was a reaction test of sorts?

In post 151, Nauci wrote:Okay after a quick re-skim I'm feeling not good about how easily pushed back Stun was. Vote on me without follow up justification, even highlighting not asking anyone else to do so, and then very quick unvote from just being asked why.

He didn't quickly unvote. He posted several times between responding to why he voted you. I didn't think his motivation for voting you felt scummy at all. There are a lot of easy things he could pick on if he wanted to blend in without drawing attention to someone he thinks is not being given enough scrutiny. He eventually unvoted towards the end of the day so he could re-read with fresh eyes the following day I assume. Saying he quickly unvoted and was pushed back too easily doesn't feel like an honest representation of what he did.

In post 171, Irrelephant11 wrote:Hot take: Keyser hasn’t done anything towny yet

I found his posts generally towny. Do you have any opinions on his posts so far? Did you have a reason to be concerned or you just thought he was null?

That's the first seven pages. Heading off to work now. Will be back at around 8 hours.