Mini Normal 2214 || Game Over!

[shiki]

tells me tomorrow that Shiki is evil I will believe him.

and we don't have to continue to make believe that i might be mafia here

[VFP]

You can't rule out that scum me could also mean scum Rae.

In fact, the only 2 that are clear from being my scum buddies would be the masons in that situation. Because that's mechanically cleared.
Town me is Rare / Nero + you or Sig.

[shiki]

You can't rule out that scum me could also mean scum Rae.

which is where we're at if we're discounting the possibility that rae and vfp are aligned

which is most of the 10% not accounted by the ~90%

[Dwlee99]

I just saw the FN claim.
I think this game is solved then.

Lim me.
Lim in the masons
If fake lim the other Mason, if real, it's just Dunn and Egix.

Both pairs have credit to lie on the roles.
Masons were just caught if scum
Egix is the lim if claiming VT.

Do it in that order as town won't have FN's and Masons

VOTE: VFP

Here is VFP doing the same thing in a different mini as scum. Shiki I'm now pretending you're an IC. Rae check someone in {me, Nero, Sigmund} doctors both protect Shiki I think.

VOTE: VFP

[shiki]

wait unvote need to think about no elimination again

[VFP]

Ah okay, I didn't understand that part originally.
Then yes, I agree since I'd lim Sig over you as it currently stands.

[VFP]

wait unvote need to think about no elimination again

Even with a Dwlee vote it's only E2 with just 1 scum off the wagon.

[VFP]

Also, a no lim is going to be worthless here.
Tactically scum just no kill, or just kill a mason.

[shiki]

so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}

so two of these players have to be town so two must be true so let's see here one sec

[Dwlee99]

wait unvote need to think about no elimination again

UNVOTE:

[shiki]

so if nero cain is town, mafia would be {vfp, dwlee, sigmund}
for town!sigmund it is {vfp, dwlee, nero cain}
for town!dwlee it is {rae or vfp, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!rae it is vfp + 2 of {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}
for town!vfp it is {rae, nero cain, sigmund}

so two of these players have to be town so two must be true so let's see here one sec

nevermind this just gives same results as above reworded; nero and rae can possibly be town together, sigmund and rae can possibly be town together, dwlee and rae can possibly be town together, dwlee and vfp can possibly be town together

[Dwlee99]

I like the idea of not no-eliminating here because it's possible we hit a roleblocker or something which gets Rae more results. Plus we keep confirmed town to talk to about the game state around.

[shiki]

Also, a no lim is going to be worthless here.
Tactically scum just no kill, or just kill a mason.

sure but rae potentially gets an extra check in {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}, and there isn't any downside right, like i know from your point of view rae is mafia so sure worthless to you, but, hm, interesting to me why rae was so opposed to this earlier even if he thinks he is unlikely to get another result

[Dwlee99]

If we are going to eliminate VFP we should do it before no eliminating in case VFP is a role that can counter a cop. If you want to throw Rae off a roof then my only reason for not no eliminating is that we keep two confirmed town voices in the game in T3 and Johnny (if they're here)

[shiki]

If we are going to eliminate VFP we should do it before no eliminating in case VFP is a role that can counter a cop. If you want to throw Rae off a roof then my only reason for not no eliminating is that we keep two confirmed town voices in the game in T3 and Johnny (if they're here)

but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?

[shiki]

but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?

or unless rae and vfp are in fact aligned, of course

[shiki]

but if we eliminate vfp and the game doesn't end doesn't the mafia always eliminate rae unless they want to play 'maybe rae and vfp are aligned'?

or unless rae and vfp are in fact aligned, of course

and it doesn't make sense for mafia to angle for this if they aren't aligned because then they get caught on rae check and have to argue that rae redchecked a partner today and is now redchecking a town because he wanted to play longer? i guess?

[Nero Cain]

Does a no lynch actually do anything here? Seems like scum would just kill rae or a mason and we'd be right back here or am I missing something?

[shiki]

Does a no lynch actually do anything here? Seems like scum would just kill rae or a mason and we'd be right back here or am I missing something?

well if mafia kill rae then we know for sure vfp is mafia and work only from those worlds, if they kill a mason we are back here possibly with an extra check from rae which solves the game if rae is town,

[VFP]

Also, a no lim is going to be worthless here.
Tactically scum just no kill, or just kill a mason.

sure but rae potentially gets an extra check in {dwlee, nero cain, sigmund}, and there isn't any downside right, like i know from your point of view rae is mafia so sure worthless to you, but, hm, interesting to me why rae was so opposed to this earlier even if he thinks he is unlikely to get another result

From a town view, sure.
I guess Rae has to go with the roleblocker or not stance then as well.

[shiki]

Does a no lynch actually do anything here? Seems like scum would just kill rae or a mason and we'd be right back here or am I missing something?

well if mafia kill rae then we know for sure vfp is mafia and work only from those worlds, if they kill a mason we are back here possibly with an extra check from rae which solves the game if rae is town,

like we'd still have to make the same decision between vfp and rae tomorrow if mafia kill a mason, but if we rae is town and we decide to vote vfp tomorrow after a no elimination today, we potentially have the game solved going forward from there

[Dwlee99]

I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

[shiki]

I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

you think there's a higher chance of vfp being a roleblocker than of the mafia killing rae if vfp is eliminated and flips mafia today?

that doesn't seem right to me

[Dwlee99]

I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

you think there's a higher chance of vfp being a roleblocker than of the mafia killing rae if vfp is eliminated and flips mafia today?

that doesn't seem right to me

I think we have a better chance of winning if we kill VFP today for a variety of percent reasons. I think regardless of what happens we should just kill VFP -> Nero -> Sigmund in that order anyway.

[VFP]

That almost sounds pretty good.