Page 75 of 79

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:39 pm
by Eyceking
?

That was almost 3 weeks after he died. So I don't think much of that communique any more. If you're at least telling the truth that he sent it to you, I think it was based on how he interpreted play for the 3 weeks following his death rather than any result he may or may not have received as a cop.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:52 pm
by Patrick
How is it relevant that it's 3 weeks after he died? Why would he have to send his communique immediately after dying?
Eyceking wrote:If you're at least telling the truth that he sent it to you, I think it was based on how he interpreted play for the 3 weeks following his death rather than any result he may or may not have received as a cop.
Yeah, right. After Miztef, I'd say I was his top suspect, or at least his 2nd suspect. Your theory is that he looked at the posts I made in the first part of day 2, and got such a strong protown vibe off them that I suddenly went from being his top suspect to bottom suspect. Do you believe what you're saying?

In fact, if Phoebus investigated someone other than me, wouldn't it make more sense to message them? Or are you claiming he got such an enormous protown vibe from my posts that he trusted me over someone else who he had investigative evidence on?

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:33 am
by MeMe
No current votes.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:12 am
by Eyceking
Everybody else seemed to get communiques from the dead players fairly immediately after morning broke, or during the night, or something. If Phoebus investigated you and got a result, why would he wait 3 weeks to send a communique to you? In that instance I would expect an immediate communique - not one 3 weeks later. That's why it's relevant.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:32 am
by Patrick
(Shrug) I could give a semi educated guess for the delay -- Phoebus had exams for some of that period, same as I did. He also went on holiday for 4-5 days. (His communique to me arrived when he got back from that break). But in any case, I still don't see why the delay is so important. You say why would he wait a while, I say why not? Also, I'm still not clear on what you're saying happened then, do you think that Phoebus chose not to send anyone a final communique at all? Otherwise I'm not sure where you're going.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:57 am
by Patrick
Feel free to reply btw

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:00 pm
by Glork
...just popping in to say I'm still alive. (The new job starts tomorrow. >.<) I'm still very undecided as to who I think is most likely to be scum. Sometime before the end of the week, I
hope
to be able to look this game over, but that's far from certain.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:25 am
by Patrick
Come on Eyceking, I know you're out there. We don't want a deadline.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:58 pm
by Eyceking
All I'm trying to do is sort out what doesn't make sense to me. Stoofer claiming to send a communique to a dead player didn't make sense. Simenon sending a "cult" communique didn't make sense. Phoebus waiting 3 weeks to send his communique to you AND your heal failing when we know there is an extremely powerful permanent roleblocker out there doesn't make sense. To me, anyway. I understand that you're trying to come up with hypothetical ideas to try and explain it, and the sheer disbelieving factor of them is in some weird way quite reassuring. But not convincing.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:18 am
by Patrick
Please actually answer the question though. Don't just repeat, "Phoebus waiting 3 weeks makes no sense to me".

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:08 am
by Glork
I'm still trying to work out how or why the scums would have waited so long to allegedly permablock Mert, and why Patrick would have been regularly roleblocked on one single night.


I take it you were not roleblocked in any way last night, Patrick?

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:20 am
by Patrick
Glork wrote:I'm still trying to work out how or why the scums would have waited so long to allegedly permablock Mert, and why Patrick would have been regularly roleblocked on one single night.
I'm guessing some kind of restriction on perma roleblocks (and there's no allegedly about it). As for me, how do we know how many times I've been roleblocked?
Glork wrote:I take it you were not roleblocked in any way last night, Patrick?
Not permanently. As for normal roleblocking, I can't know.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:30 am
by Glork
Oh, I thought you said you had been regularly roleblocked on Night Five or whenever it was. (Edit: Oh, that's because you said you tried to protect Mert, isn't it? Okay, that makes sense.)

Also, it seems that the Mafia did not regularly roleblock each night, since Mert appears to have made successful protections. There were two nights without deaths, so Mert seemingly must have successfully protected
somebody
on those nights. Point is, I don't understand how, when, or under what conditions the Mafia could permablock. My theory of "when a mafia member dies, they nix a role" didn't work, since Eteo was permablocked before Stoof died, and I cannot come up with another reasonable explanation. But the "temporary" or "regular" roleblocking is what I find even more disconcerting. As little sense as the PermaBlocks make, Patrick allegedly being regularly blocked just makes zero sense whatsoever. There is no proof that what Patrick claims happened to him is true, and there is no explanation as to why the mafia would not have blocked Mert on previous nights.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:40 am
by Patrick
The perma roleblock is assured to have happened. If I was making that up then Mert would have simply contradicted me in his final communique. I can't understand why you're throwing doubt on that.

As for normal roleblocking, if it exists at all, why would the mafia have blocked Mert on previous nights necessarily? He didn't claim doctor until day 4. Why does it make "no sense whatsoever" for me to have been roleblocked?

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:21 pm
by Glork
I think you're missing the point, Patrick.

I am not doubting the permablock -- I am merely wondering why it didn't take place sooner.

I am somewhat doubting the regular roleblock because
Mert was seemingly not blocked on Night Three or Night Four, when it seems like the mafia should have known about his role
. It is *possible* that they didn't know and just attempted to block elsewhere. I'm not really sure.




Point is, Patrick, there's a lot that I don't understand right now, and I'm trying to trudge my way through it all before coming to a decision. If either you or Eyce could provide any additional insight regarding what might have happened, I really would love to hear it.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:24 pm
by Patrick
Glork wrote:I am not doubting the permablock -- I am merely wondering why it didn't take place sooner.
I suppose I just don't really see the point in worrying so much about this. Only the mafia knows what limitations they have on this perma roleblock, if any.
Glork wrote:I am somewhat doubting the regular roleblock because Mert was seemingly not blocked on Night Three or Night Four, when it seems like the mafia should have known about his role. It is *possible* that they didn't know and just attempted to block elsewhere. I'm not really sure.
Night 3, the only roles unknown to the mafia are those of mine and Mert. They probably think one or both of us is a powerole, and they roleblock me. Mert successfully saves Eteocles. Night 4, the mafia has probably guessed Mert is a doctor, so they try to kill him, once again roleblocking me. They forget the possibility that the doc can self protect because it's so rare. There's a possible scenario.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:23 am
by MeMe
I'd rather not resort to a deadline, boys.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:00 am
by Patrick
I'd rather not have MeMe resort to a deadline boys.

Eyceking, much as you'd like to, you aren't going to avoid answering my questions. I'll make them clear:

1) Why is it so strange that Phoebus should wait three weeks before sending his communique? I'm not looking for another vague answer. Actually explain why this is so unbelievable to you.

2) Following on from that, if you don't think the communique from Pheobus to me is genuine, then what do you think happened? Did he message nobody? Did I suddenly decide to fabricate this out of thin air?

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:21 am
by Glork
I'm posting daily and working on reading through the thread during spare time. I would say that this is far from an easy decsion, and I don't think a deadline is necessary.


I would like to hear from Eyce, though. Eyce, could you state three reasons you think Patrick might be scum and three reasons I might be scum? Try to do something behavioral, something relating to the other known scums (Sim/Stoof), and anything else you can find on either of us.

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:48 am
by Eyceking
Give me the weekend to re-read the passage around where you said Phoebus PM'd you. Rather busy at work.

Glork - your request will take especially more time. Same request asked of you.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:37 am
by Patrick
Meh. We're in danger of being deadlined, and that could be dangerous. Glork, I see from vacation thread you're moving into your new place this weekend. How's the reread going?

Looking forward to Eyceking's post.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:39 pm
by Glork
Feh.

I didn't move into my new place because of some mixup; it will happen
next
weekend instead. I ended up spending the weekend out of town with some friends instead. The re-read will happen sometime this week.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:01 am
by Eyceking
OK Patrick, look. You say Phoebus waited 3 weeks to tell you and the reason he told you was because his cop ability was triggered and he investigated you to find you pro-town. Well, I've already tried to say how that's weird and this hasn't stopped you continuously looking for further explanations.

Why would Phoebus, as a back up cop, send you a communique and not tell you he was the back up cop? That doesn't make sense either. He had no reason to not tell you if he investigated you and found you to be townie.

I'm not trying to say the communique was not genuine - and I have never made any point to this effect, even though you have tried to incinuate this is what I'm doing. My problem came with the 3 week gap - not with the existence of the communique itself. I am simply saying that the communique from Phoebus to you, with the assumption that he was the back up cop, is full of holes. It can make sense if he was simply a townie observing the game and making new decisions based on the play for those 3 weeks - but not if he was a back up cop with a pro-town result on you who didn't tell you he was the back up cop.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:34 am
by Patrick
Eyceking wrote:Why would Phoebus, as a back up cop, send you a communique and not tell you he was the back up cop? That doesn't make sense either. He had no reason to not tell you if he investigated you and found you to be townie.
I agree that the wording is a bit funny, but he did actually say, "dead guy = backup cop". I don't see it as that strange that he didn't declare he had an innocent on me; afterall that wouldn't be telling me anything I didn't know about myself, and you can see he had alot to say in his communique (he went right up to the possible word limit). Although he was mistaken, it seems he thought he'd caught muse in a lie.
Eyceking wrote:I'm not trying to say the communique was not genuine - and I have never made any point to this effect, even though you have tried to incinuate this is what I'm doing. My problem came with the 3 week gap - not with the existence of the communique itself. I am simply saying that the communique from Phoebus to you, with the assumption that he was the back up cop, is full of holes. It can make sense if he was simply a townie observing the game and making new decisions based on the play for those 3 weeks - but not if he was a back up cop with a pro-town result on you who didn't tell you he was the back up cop.
Ok, I thought that you were trying to say I'd made the thing up entirely. I've already outlined why I don't find your theory plausible; Phoebus is generally a fairly stubborn player, and I just don't see how it's possible I could have gone from being a top suspect of his to being the guy he trusted the most, merely based on my posts in the first part of day 2 (which weren't exactly anything special). Also, if he wasn't a backup cop, then why would he put in his communique, "dead guy = backup cop" and "Miztef=cop"? That just wouldn't make sense at all if he was just a vanilla townie. Furthermore, if Phoebus was vanilla, my being scum would mean that the only town power in this game would be a cop and a doc, which would be ridiculously unbalanced. His message to me really doesn't make sense unless he's the backup cop.

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:38 am
by Glork
Eyce, I am still awaiting your analysis.


In other news, I think I'll have time to review most (if not all) of the thread on Thursday evening, my time.