Mini 1637- Pokemon Generation I uPick (Game Over)

[Boonskiies]

I said that what you're doing right now exactly coincides with a scum agenda. Do you disagree?

Scumhunting and checking out possible scenarios in the case I am wrong about either you or pie being scum? Fuck yeah, I disagree.

[pieguyn]

The point is, if there is no explanation for which I can be scum, I must be town, right? That's not too hard to grasp, is it? I'm looking for all possibilities in which I could be scum, to examine if any of them is possible. If any of them is, I'm not 100% confirmed town, just close. If none of them is, I am confirmed town.

NO.

this is, in fact, exactly why what you're doing right now comes from a scum mindset. it is a fairly textbook scum play to attempt to misdirect away from yourself by saying there is no explanation for you being scum. my Tales of You example was intended to demonstrate this - no one would have ever figured out the explanation of JSU-town AP-scum (AP being a godfather-roleblocker and happening to roleblock Katsuki on that night), but that's what happened.

you can't assume you are aware of every single possibility in a role madness game. this is exactly what I've been saying this whole time.

[TierShift]

Sorry, I did read only the first half before responding.

Also, why is him saying he can redirect kills indicative of town? That gives Seo an easy move of saying he redirected something from whoever and mislynch to win.

Also, the fact that it's redirect "kills"...we're not killing in this game. We're knocking Pokemon out.

Don't nitpick here. Seo obviously meant that he could redirect the scum NK, regardless of if it's called a kill or a knock-out.

If seo is scum, telling the town that he should have redirected my nightkill if I were scum is stupid. It should clear me (and I still believe it does and I still think pie is being paranoid and annoying as fuck) and take away a possible mislynch.

If he would just have said that he couldn't redirect kills, I would have been easier to lynch.

So boon, answer me this: why would seo tell me he can redirect kills?

[TierShift]

Oh god, pie, believe what the fuck you want to believe. If you think it's in any way plausible that I both have
an ability which only has one very straightforward explanation but is something else
AND
A passive way to stop seo's redirect (remember, both ascetic and roleblocking were active abilities this game! And I already used another night action, namely perish song) from affecting me and that doesn't exist yet (or that at least I cannot in any way think of)

Then you can hold on to your silly argument that I'm not town.
This is like consistently distrusting cop results in theme games because hidden millers exist. It's the sort of risk you simply have to take.

To me, it sounds like you just have some sort of trauma from an extremely counterintuitive setup.

Fwiw, I thnk town made the right decision in that game; you shoukd always go with the higher percentage play if you can.

Anyway, if even this cannot convince you, this settles the discussion for me. I'm just sad you're this obtuse.

Boon, this same post is for you. Do you believe I have both of these abilities?

[Boonskiies]

Aren't you ascetic...?

[Boonskiies]

I thought Perish Song made you ascetic.

[Boonskiies]

Let me look back.

[TierShift]

Boon, I'd say that if you were scum, it would be in your best interest to not focus on if I am conftown or not and rather push my lynch. Am I correct?

It's also in scumboon's best interest to set up a mislynch for tomorrow. Am I correct?

If the answer to both of these is yes, why do you feel offended that I compare your play to scum-motivated play?

[pieguyn]

This is like consistently distrusting cop results in theme games because hidden millers exist. It's the sort of risk you simply have to take.

it's like distrusting a cop inno because of the possibility of a godfather - which is not in any way obtuse and depending on the mod can be the correct play

I still find it funny that are you are continuing to discredit me by calling me "obtuse" or trying to write this off as "lol u have PTSD from another game". seriously. I outright said earlier that I did like the way you're attempting to clear me based on your supposed role at the very least - I just don't see any town motivation in the rest of your play - and I literally just asked you about the Boon read. that was, believe it or not, a mild form of reach out. I think Boon is town via D3 - I wanted you to convince me I'm wrong. but rather than attempt to work with me, you.......... completely ignore it and continue claiming I'm being non-cooperative. que que?

[TierShift]

I would argue that it's snething far less likely than a gf if you can't even think of it, but fuck it. The obtuse is not trying to be a discredit. It's me hoping to talk some sense into you, but that's over now.

and I literally just asked you about the Boon read. that was, believe it or not, a mild form of reach out. I think Boon is town via D3 - I wanted you to convince me I'm wrong. but rather than attempt to work with me, you.......... completely ignore it and continue claiming I'm being non-cooperative. que que?

I saw the reach-out and I'm happy with it. I didn't ignore it, I just didn't get to it yet. Will do so quickly.

[Boonskiies]

Sure, Tier. What's the point? That's very generalized.

[Boonskiies]

Your latest post on flames is correct.
The previous motivation for my question was this:
I thought that strongman was a possible explanation for flamesscum
I thought ascetic or RB was a possible explanation for tierscum

I was hoping you would admit that strongman was impossible because another scum already had it. I would post in response that that would clear me as well, because both possible explanations would fit the same description as of why you're clearing flames.

I find it interesting you are pseudo-pushing me when I fit this bill too with my role.

[pieguyn]

The obtuse is not trying to be a discredit. It's me hoping to talk some sense into you, but that's over now.

if you want to "talk some sense into me", then actually produce arguments instead of just going "lol ur obtuse" "lol, there's no way I can be scum".

I am attempting to analyze your play objectively. save for the fact you're trying to clear someone in endgame, I do not see any town motivation in your play here. if I see a compelling argument otherwise, I will reconsider my view of the gamestate.

this is why I reached out to you over the Boon read earlier.

/shrug

[TierShift]

Longpost on boon-vett interactions

@Flames - vettrock is saying he has read much of the game, yet he's trying to POE people? Haha. Just by reading the page before this and skimming some of it beforehand I'm town reading Flames pretty hard, and scum reading Vett. I read both of their ISO's (including Vett's earlier slot), and Flames genuinely looks like he's town on the verge of figuring out this game (we'll find out later how accurate he is). Vett looks like he replaced into a scum slot and isn't sure how to move on forward with it.

VOTE: Vettrock

I'll sheep my town read onto really my only scum read at this point.

I still see the flames townread here as unwarranted. Nobody afaicr had that read and I think it might be WKing.

I hate to OMGUS vote, but I'm inclined to vote for Boon as well. I didn't really see the interaction between Wisdom and NM as scum partners, but Boon's recent push on me seems pretty scummy, but I'm not sure how much I'm letting the OMGUS aspect of it bother me.
VOTE: Boon

If both are scum, they're obviously going for the crossbus.

I can support flames. He was my pick before Boon started scumming it up.

VOTE: Flames

Looks like this is L-1.

Here, vettrock seems not to want to lynch boon though, while having said he had to be scum because of his selfvote earlier. Not much has changed, but his read has. Would call that likely for buddies.

My reaction is

'So that's why he mighta been mightie careful about not being scummy"

Yeh I had no thought cross my mind of you being a potential pr

So now both players who have had the most pressure today, in their words when under pressure (sometimes those words can be the most clearly thought in a weird way), have continued to push Vettrock as a scumread

I am missing something and will look back

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I still like Boon over flames, but that is what we have. We have time, so I probably should have waited before moving me vote back.

He's baaackpedaling.

Flames682 - I like how Flames has been playing. Mostly all of his posts are one liners and quick, and he hasn't been throwing his vote all over the place. When he voted Vettrock, he actually changed from his quick one liner posts and wrote a little more to explain his vote. He also has been generally posting longer posts when talking about vettrock, and this just seems like Flames trying to figure out the game. I'm leaning town.

Bert - I'm not exactly sure what Bert is doing. Sometimes I feel like he isn't doing absolutely anything, but other times I feel he's helping a lot. I don't know. He's my hardest to figure out. I feel like he's looking for reasons to mislynch someone, but he isn't coming off as scummy at all. I'm nervous to town read him as I don't want him to fall off the radar and just slip by if he actually is scum. This is my nullest read for now. I'm completely in the middle with him. I'll have to evaluate this more.

vettrock - I don't really like much about vettrock. There's been a few time where I thought he came across as town, like in 1274, but other times he is the scummiest thing ever. His reactions to my self-voting was super opportunistic, and he is voting Flames and saying he would prefer a Boon lynch, but he'll settle for Flames is him preparing for an excuse. I haven't looked over the Marquis slot much. I'm scum reading him.

Seohyun - I don't think scum would flat out say they are town reading everyone but one person in the game, and point that out. Everything he posts seems pretty town, including his psychic slip up. I'm town reading him.

pieguyn - I'm paranoid as all hell with her. She looks just like she did last game when her and I were scum partners, and I can't shake the idea that she is scum out of my head. Doesn't help that she replaced BlueBloodedToffee and I wasn't town reading BBT, one of the people I go out of my way to join a game with on the site, someone who I can usually town read pretty easily by early Day 2/late Day 1. Doesn't mean I was scum reading BBT, but yeah. I don't like the way she tried to conf town herself; she did that last game too. I also don't get why only 1 Psychic would be on the scum team. I don't like how she could be buddying herself up to Vettrock. She did that to Elbirn in the last game. Hard. This being said, i'm not stating they are scum together. I also don't like 1309. I'm scum reading her.

Formerfish - Fishy is hard for me to read, but if I'm not suspicious of Fishy, he's usually town. Nothing really shows as scummy to me. I don't have much to say on this. I'm leaning town.

TierShift - I feel Tier's just playing it safe. Hiding behind simple reads that he can change. Something is off for me. When just reading in the thread I felt a very scummy feel by him, but his ISO is making me actually see it from a more town perspective. That being said, that isn't hard to fake. I don't like how he's borderline flipflopping on some reads, and that he's not throwing a vote down on vett or flames, two people who have had voted today. It just feels like he's waiting so he doesn't look scummy. I'm leaning scum on him.

Updated Read List:

Boonskiies
Seohyun
Flames
Formerfish
Bert
Tiershift
Vettrock
Pieguyn

VOTE: Pie

Boonie also found someone else to scumread over vettrock. Also reeks of buddy preservation.

VOTE: Vettrock

At this point vettrock was beyond saving, so no townpoints.

I haven't looked back to your post, pie, but this is what I think of boon-vettrock interactions. If anything, mor elikely to be buddies.

[TierShift]

if you want to "talk some sense into me", then actually produce arguments instead of just going "lol ur obtuse" "lol, there's no way I can be scum".

Not.....respondi.g......have....to....stop...

[TierShift]

Your latest post on flames is correct.
The previous motivation for my question was this:
I thought that strongman was a possible explanation for flamesscum
I thought ascetic or RB was a possible explanation for tierscum

I was hoping you would admit that strongman was impossible because another scum already had it. I would post in response that that would clear me as well, because both possible explanations would fit the same description as of why you're clearing flames.

I find it interesting you are pseudo-pushing me when I fit this bill too with my role.

Huh, good catch. I do think JK is not RB with so many town killing roles.

[TierShift]

Sure, Tier. What's the point? That's very generalized.

The point is that you agree it would be best for scum in your situation to portray the behaviour you are portraying, yet you were offended when I said so the first time. It shows me that your earlier reaction was not genuine, as you showed aggression towards my viewpoint, while you later admit that you are agreeing with it.

I want to know why your earlier reaction was not genuine. I only have one explanation and you probably know what that is.

Pie, read this. Understand this.

[TierShift]

So boon, answer me this: why would seo tell me he can redirect kills?

Boon, this same post is for you. Do you believe I have both of theseF abilities?

Boonsie, both of these are also for you.

[pieguyn]

If both are scum, they're obviously going for the crossbus.

my problem with this is if you consider the rest of Boon's play, this doesn't make much sense. like, look at

I hate to OMGUS vote, but I'm inclined to vote for Boon as well. I didn't really see the interaction between Wisdom and NM as scum partners, but Boon's recent push on me seems pretty scummy, but I'm not sure how much I'm letting the OMGUS aspect of it bother me.
VOTE: Boon

Pie was referring to me being scum and doing that.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Fuck it. Don't care.

if his strategy was to bus, what exactly was the purpose of this? it would make more sense and be more beneficial for him to continue railing on vettrock instead of exploding, voting himself and then a bunch of people who weren't vettrock.

and, like, you literally just said afterward that he would be trying to save vettrock near the end of the day, which doesn't make sense if his strategy here was to go a cross bus

those 2 strategies aren't consistent with each other

the point about backpedaling, I don't get what your point is. he's backpedaling and....... offering to lynch his partner instead of town? not sure why you find this scummy.

the point re: finding someone else to scum read over vettrock I'm meh on. he was alluding to scum reading me ever since 1339. I don't think his read here is inconsistent.

there's nothing here that I think is more likely to come from a POV of scum partners, as opposed to vettrock-scum Boon-town. I feel like you're looking through it with the mindset that they're partners and pointing out things to fit the conclusion, as opposed to looking into what they'd actually have to gain by doing anything they're doing as partners. (I'm not calling you scum for this since town do this too, I'm just saying I don't think most of these points hold merit and I don't get why you find most of them more likely to come from scum than town.)

The point is that you agree it would be best for scum in your situation to portray the behaviour you are portraying, yet you were offended when I said so the first time. It shows me that your earlier reaction was not genuine, as you showed aggression towards my viewpoint, while you later admit that you are agreeing with it.

I want to know why your earlier reaction was not genuine. I only have one explanation and you probably know what that is.

Pie, read this. Understand this.

meh. I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting this. the point is that Boon does not agree that what he is doing is "lining up lynches", which I don't think is too unreasonable. from his POV, he's just claiming to have multiple scum reads as opposed to actually setting anyone up to be lynched

this isn't really something that I find compelling or that I would expect anyone to actually slip over

[TierShift]

Look, pie, you're misunderstanding me. All these points on boon-marquis are to show that they CN be buddies, they're not incriminating points, except for the vettrock read change on boon and subsuquent backpedalling.

if his strategy was to bus, what exactly was the purpose of this? it would make more sense and be more beneficial for him to continue railing on vettrock instead of exploding, voting himself and then a bunch of people who weren't vettrock.

and, like, you literally just said afterward that he would be trying to save vettrock near the end of the day, which doesn't make sense if his strategy here was to go a cross bus

those 2 strategies aren't consistent with each other

I think early crossbus for distancing and afterwards buddy preservation is a perfectly viable scum strategy. I very often see scum vote their buddy and the direct their attention elsewhere.

the point about backpedaling, I don't get what your point is. he's backpedaling and....... offering to lynch his partner instead of town? not sure why you find this scummy.

People don't just forget about their biggest scumread. Vettrock did for a moment. Then he backpedalled and threw it in again. Buddyxbuddy interaction.

[TierShift]

meh. I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting this. the point is that Boon does not agree that what he is doing is "lining up lynches", which I don't think is too unreasonable. from his POV, he's just claiming to have multiple scum reads as opposed to actually setting anyone up to be lynched

this isn't really something that I find compelling or that I would expect anyone to actually slip over

Pie, I immediately thought 1846 was not genuine. It felt as a snap-response, as though he was really mad I compared his actions to scum-motivated actions. That doesn't line up with him agreeing to my point later on and just making a throwaway gesture 'yeah, of course lol why is it important'.

His first response is to discredit me because he's scared.

[TierShift]

It really really rreally doesn't warrant such a response as town. It really doesn't. It also doesn't fit his generally helpful attitude today.

[TierShift]

I only need to reread seo one last time and if I like what I see then I'll want boon lynched for today and myself for tomorrow.

[TierShift]

Blegh perhaps not myself for tomorrow as I'm pretty sure pie is town

But if it is imperative for pie to lynch boon I'll volunteer myself for lynch tomorrow...for now.

[TierShift]

It is me volunteering btw