Mafiascum.net

lunar claiming any sort of ability will basically lock him in a thunderdome with me. There is absolutely no way there could be another strong town power-role in the setup, regardless of how powerful the last scum player is

no way whatsoever.

and entering a thunderdome now will end in a scum loss no matter what cuz both of us can just get lynched one after another. That’s why I said that he’ll claim VT regardless of alignment

Frogsterking wrote:

In post 1846, ejjinami wrote:

In post 1844, Frogsterking wrote: TBH I can't imagine anything scum could have that would make the setup balanced. I'll go take a look at the role list though.

some sort of joat or role that could disrupt the investigatives would probably work....???????????????????
honestly, no idea

If they have the ability to disrupt investigatives then they've done a terrible job with it.

that’s... normal imo

Personally assuming all the claims are real I don't see anything Normal in the last scum slot that could make the setup balanced IMO.

Ejji do you agree Lunar softed PR D1 and do you think it's AI?

Just throwing this out there - is it there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

In post 1849, Frogsterking wrote:

In post 1845, ejjinami wrote:

Frogsterking wrote:I agree your play makes less sense from a scum!Ejji perspective, especially a scum!rolestopper.

I was working on what Gamma asked D3, and I came up with a theory that you primarily scum hunt via introspection to determine the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude of others.

yeah.... that’s what I “””””””specialize””””””” in.

with results you saw before lol

funnily, I would have nailed the scum-team in the last game I was about to replace into xd
that might be one of the reasons why I got overconfident here

Wait seriously I was right about that?

How would you describe your process of introspection?

most of the time I just read other players’ posts without getting into the details
skilled scum can always fake a good read or reaction to a scum-read so I usually assume that reading into long wall-posts (and posts a player clearly put much effort into), is just a waste of time
Posts that look as if they were posted spontaneously or show emotions in an unobvious way seem to be more AI

idk if I’m doing it correctly but usually I just try to figure out what a person focuses on (what’s their mood / state of mind / motivation) and look for posts that a scum-player (who is currently focused on the stuff I found) wouldn’t focus on... then I just assume that it’s AI and try to determine how confident I am in them not doing it coincidentally

because of that, I usually get more town than scum-reads xD

funnily, besides him wanting to lynch people I town-read at the beginning of D1 (frog, npom, lunar) the main reason I was scum-reading luca for were because he only showed “readable” emotions in posts I thought he was likely to work on for a long time... he wrote the read on bugs (with lots of confidence and care), voted and just went “emotionally silent” later on.
People didn’t seem to agree with him later on yet he didn’t show any emotions related to anger because of that.
the only emotions I noticed were when he interacted with bugs again and voiced his anger for bugs being unwilling to cooperate...
if I remember it right, it was written in a way that pretty much meant: “you’re not cooperating so I don’t have a choice” = “lol, it’s not my fault that you’re getting mis-lynched”
there were no emotions when he hammered someone else either... just like: “everyone is town-reading me so I don’t care. I can push bugs tomorrow.”

when I replaced in I was dead certain that he is scum who just got town-read and lazy because of it xD
but oh well...

I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

That's what I was considering as well, Luca. There was a lengthy discussion about this in my last game. Apparently it's in bad taste to run a 4 scum Normal in the current meta.

In post 1818, Lunar Martian wrote:

In post 1810, Luca Blight wrote:Scum!ejj has made it hard for themselves by hard-defending Lunar, though. That would have been a viable miselim.

Only because of a stupid fucking deathtunnel by someone who can't seem to get over themselves three weeks later. JFC frogster, how is it possible to confirmation bias this consistently after being called out on it? Every bit of evidence gets interpreted as me being Mafia, regardless of what the evidence even is. If something can't be spun as me being Mafia then you ignore it.

I wouldn't call my relationship to your slot a death tunnel because I detailed my read with in-thread examples and re-evaluated your slot multiple times (at your request.)

What made you FoS the Gamma slot over the Trendall slot?

Frogsterking wrote:Personally assuming all the claims are real I don't see anything Normal in the last scum slot that could make the setup balanced IMO.

we’ll see post game then

In post 1852, Frogsterking wrote:Ejji do you agree Lunar softed PR D1 and do you think it's AI?

you claimed PR to get night-killed as well, didn’t you?

tbh I completely missed the crumb. I remember people talking about it but didn’t really bother to check it
Honestly, I’ll just wait for a claim. If he does claim PR, it’s easy, if not... idk

Luca Blight wrote:Just throwing this out there - is it

possible

there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

the funniest part is that even if there is one, my checks are valid :P
a traitor cannot perform the night kill as long as there’s still a living member of the mafia in the game (or at least that’s how the version of the role I know worked)

In post 1855, Luca Blight wrote:I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

oof......
lemme look through your posts xd

sorry if that’s the case

In post 204, Luca Blight wrote:VOTE: Amélie

This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.

134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.

138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's 142 in response to this.

139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.

riiiiight! it was amelie and lunar... not frog/npom

my bad
I was reading through the thread quickly

In post 1858, ejjinami wrote:

In post 1855, Luca Blight wrote:I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

oof......
lemme look through your posts xd

sorry if that’s the case

FYI this is why you scored in the bottom percentile of "cautiousness" (a category you've been mislabeling which is actually called conscientious, cautiousness is just a sub facet of conscientious.) It's your lack of attention to detail. If it makes you feel any better I also score in the bottom percentile.

Maybe I will write that personality comparison after all, I was starting to doubt myself but I think I was on the right track.

In post 1853, Luca Blight wrote:Just throwing this out there - is it

possible

there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

I feel like the NRG tries to shy away from such setups? Also I feel like the town isn’t actually OP rn
At least 2 mafia have legitimate excuses for the Neapolitan and the backup neighbor can slip by the TA

In post 1861, Gamma Emerald wrote:

In post 1853, Luca Blight wrote:Just throwing this out there - is it

possible

there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

I feel like the NRG tries to shy away from such setups? Also I feel like the town isn’t actually OP rn
At least 2 mafia have legitimate excuses for the Neapolitan and the backup neighbor can slip by the TA

Who is the second mafia with a legitimate excuse for the Neapolitan?

Informed can claim something that’s public info if guiltied
Backup neighbor has a role that’s be made known if a neighbor dies anyway, so they have to claim their real role, which explains a neap guilty away

In post 1860, Frogsterking wrote:

In post 1858, ejjinami wrote:

In post 1855, Luca Blight wrote:I never wanted to elim Frogster or NPOM? I've read them as Town from the start. And again, the argument was with Lunar, not Bugs.

You clearly haven't read my posts very well.

oof......
lemme look through your posts xd

sorry if that’s the case

FYI this is why you scored in the bottom percentile of "cautiousness" (a category you've been mislabeling which is actually called conscientious, cautiousness is just a sub facet of conscientious.) It's your lack of attention to detail. If it makes you feel any better I also score in the bottom percentile.

Maybe I will write that personality comparison after all, I was starting to doubt myself but I think I was on the right track.

welp xD
at least I know where to improve then now

In post 1854, ejjinami wrote:

In post 1849, Frogsterking wrote:

In post 1845, ejjinami wrote:

Frogsterking wrote:I agree your play makes less sense from a scum!Ejji perspective, especially a scum!rolestopper.

I was working on what Gamma asked D3, and I came up with a theory that you primarily scum hunt via introspection to determine the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude of others.

yeah.... that’s what I “””””””specialize””””””” in.

with results you saw before lol

funnily, I would have nailed the scum-team in the last game I was about to replace into xd
that might be one of the reasons why I got overconfident here

Wait seriously I was right about that?

How would you describe your process of introspection?

most of the time I just read other players’ posts without getting into the details
skilled scum can always fake a good read or reaction to a scum-read so I usually assume that reading into long wall-posts (and posts a player clearly put much effort into), is just a waste of time
Posts that look as if they were posted spontaneously or show emotions in an unobvious way seem to be more AI

idk if I’m doing it correctly but usually I just try to figure out what a person focuses on (what’s their mood / state of mind / motivation) and look for posts that a scum-player (who is currently focused on the stuff I found) wouldn’t focus on... then I just assume that it’s AI and try to determine how confident I am in them not doing it coincidentally

because of that, I usually get more town than scum-reads xD

funnily, besides him wanting to lynch people I town-read at the beginning of D1 (frog, npom, lunar) the main reason I was scum-reading luca for were because he only showed “readable” emotions in posts I thought he was likely to work on for a long time... he wrote the read on bugs (with lots of confidence and care), voted and just went “emotionally silent” later on.
People didn’t seem to agree with him later on yet he didn’t show any emotions related to anger because of that.
the only emotions I noticed were when he interacted with bugs again and voiced his anger for bugs being unwilling to cooperate...
if I remember it right, it was written in a way that pretty much meant: “you’re not cooperating so I don’t have a choice” = “lol, it’s not my fault that you’re getting mis-lynched”
there were no emotions when he hammered someone else either... just like: “everyone is town-reading me so I don’t care. I can push bugs tomorrow.”

when I replaced in I was dead certain that he is scum who just got town-read and lazy because of it xD
but oh well...

I think you're doing it correctly but it could be supplemented with other methods more, and your lack of organization and attention to detail is undermining your success. I suspect another dynamic is happening as well where you doubt your ability to do something because you didn't get the results you were expecting, but your ability to do the thing is fine, you weren't getting the results because of lack of planning, organization, and attention to detail. In this case your scum hunting ability wasn't a problem, it was your ability to execute it.

In post 1865, Frogsterking wrote:I think you're doing it correctly but it could be supplemented with other methods more, and your lack of organization and attention to detail is undermining your success. I suspect another dynamic is happening as well where you doubt your ability to do something because you didn't get the results you were expecting, but your ability to do the thing is fine, you weren't getting the results because of lack of planning, organization, and attention to detail. In this case your scum hunting ability wasn't a problem, it was your ability to execute it.

the lack of organization you saw here is mainly caused by me replacing in late game and having to rely pretty much only on a fast skim through the thread in order to get reads.
I skimmed through the thread, got what I got and just went with it.
Normally, I try to implement VCA and interactions in my reads as well so I don’t think that’s the main issue here. I don’t know what else I could add to fix my read accuracy...

from what I’ve seen till now, the main issue with my emotion based reads might be the day phase length on this forum. I usually play on a forum with 72h days max so most posts I analyze are “spontaneous” + the games tend to be a bit more emotional as well.
The day phases here are long enough to make stress a smaller factor, thus make players more likely to write better posts despite it.
and I’ve seen quite a few players on this site who don’t show emotions at all (or show them very rarely)... like luca, volxen, maybe irrelephant?
It seems that this way of reading can’t be applied to them at all

another problem is me misjudging people’s capabilities... but that’s something I’m still working on
bugs didn’t seem like a player I’d apply the reasoning above to
IF owe (who was in my PoE) is scum, considering the previous game I’ve read, I’d say that the results are pretty inconclusive
but if lunar is scum here, there’s probably something seriously wrong with my methods
idk what could it be caused by then :/

ngl, I really hope that’s the case
bad reads or not, getting some sort of hint to where I could improve is always a good thing

In post 1866, ejjinami wrote:

In post 1865, Frogsterking wrote:I think you're doing it correctly but it could be supplemented with other methods more, and your lack of organization and attention to detail is undermining your success. I suspect another dynamic is happening as well where you doubt your ability to do something because you didn't get the results you were expecting, but your ability to do the thing is fine, you weren't getting the results because of lack of planning, organization, and attention to detail. In this case your scum hunting ability wasn't a problem, it was your ability to execute it.

the lack of organization you saw here is mainly caused by me replacing in late game and having to rely pretty much only on a fast skim through the thread in order to get reads.
I skimmed through the thread, got what I got and just went with it.
Normally, I try to implement VCA and interactions in my reads as well so I don’t think that’s the main issue here. I don’t know what else I could add to fix my read accuracy...

from what I’ve seen till now, the main issue with my emotion based reads might be the day phase length on this forum. I usually play on a forum with 72h days max so most posts I analyze are “spontaneous” + the games tend to be a bit more emotional as well.
The day phases here are long enough to make stress a smaller factor, thus make players more likely to write better posts despite it.
and I’ve seen quite a few players on this site who don’t show emotions at all (or show them very rarely)... like luca, volxen, maybe irrelephant?
It seems that this way of reading can’t be applied to them at all

another problem is me misjudging people’s capabilities... but that’s something I’m still working on
bugs didn’t seem like a player I’d apply the reasoning above to
IF owe (who was in my PoE) is scum, considering the previous game I’ve read, I’d say that the results are pretty inconclusive
but if lunar is scum here, there’s probably something seriously wrong with my methods
idk what could it be caused by then :/

actually, nvm what I just wrote. You are completely right
emotional tells being less AI means that I should depend on other ways of reading people more

we both said the same thing but in a different way

In post 716, Momrangal wrote:

In post 698, Lunar Martian wrote:I think I'd like to go for Trendall or OutWorldER. Failing that, NoPower or Frog.

VOTE: Trendall

This bugs me

Is this some sort of hint?

Is Lunar scum traitor, along with a Bugs, Momrangal, ejj scum team?

Just something that caught my eye.

In post 1869, Luca Blight wrote:

In post 716, Momrangal wrote:

In post 698, Lunar Martian wrote:I think I'd like to go for Trendall or OutWorldER. Failing that, NoPower or Frog.

VOTE: Trendall

This bugs me

Is this some sort of hint?

Is Lunar scum traitor, along with a Bugs, Momrangal, ejj scum team?

Just something that caught my eye.

I analyzed a similar idea in depth in 1439.

Something that was pointed out to me after was that on MS traitors are typically informed of their scum team.

Ah, I see.

In post 1871, Luca Blight wrote:Ah, I see.

I know, I got so excited when I saw that.

It makes the comment from Momrangel even more bizarre, there's no follow up at all and I don't think it's a comment that she normally makes. I'm wondering now if it was subconscious and she was indeed thinking of her team mate, Bugs, when she wrote it.

In post 1869, Luca Blight wrote:

In post 716, Momrangal wrote:

In post 698, Lunar Martian wrote:I think I'd like to go for Trendall or OutWorldER. Failing that, NoPower or Frog.

VOTE: Trendall

This bugs me

Is this some sort of hint?

Is Lunar scum traitor, along with a Bugs, Momrangal, ejj scum team?

Just something that caught my eye.

if lunar is a traitor, mom shouldn’t have been aware of their identity
(....unless that’s what “informed” meant... but why not just add the traitor to the team as a normal scum member in that case)

eh, let me say it differently. I don’t mind lynching lunar.

if we do, he’s scum and the game doesn’t end, I’ll just get lynched after him.
if I don’t die at night and am allowed to get another check, I will eventually have to get lynched because something would clearly be wrong
I’m pretty sure we should have enough lynches left to clear the PoE anyway