#434: Communiqu├® Mafia - Done. No -- seriously.


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Post Post #1875 (ISO) » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:41 am

Post by MeMe »

No current votes.
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Post Post #1876 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:50 am

Post by Patrick »

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can we get a prod on Eyceking please?
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Post Post #1877 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:08 am

Post by MeMe »

Eyceking has been prodded
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Post Post #1878 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:52 am

Post by Glork »

Okay, I've quickly re-read most of D2 and the early part of D3.


There are a few more things I'm looking over, but I may be working towards some sort of decision.




Eyce, I am still waiting on you to fulfill my request of you.
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Post Post #1879 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:16 am

Post by Eyceking »

*rubs back of neck*

OK, OK. If I get sacked, I'm blaming you guys. :p

And Glork, FYI - there's no way you can "quickly" re-read D2 - that was one helluva long ass day both time wise and posts wise. :D
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Post Post #1880 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:24 am

Post by Eyceking »

Patrick wrote:I agree that the wording is a bit funny, but he did actually say, "dead guy = backup cop".
Quick point - this quote actually makes me believe the theory a
lot
more. If you look at the D2 morning scene, then MeMe calls Phoebus "That Dead Guy" which could easily be translated in the Communique as him calling himself the backup cop. Of course, this could have been said by anyone, but I already believed that it was from Phoebus - this makes me believe that he was an activated backup cop, though.
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Post Post #1881 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:12 am

Post by Glork »

"Quickly" for me was taking about an hour just reading over posts. I didn't take any notes or anything, just read for general tone/attitudes and possible scum-connections.
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Post Post #1882 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:43 am

Post by Patrick »

Do you think Phoebus investigated me innocent? Do you have any opinion on any of the recent exchanges between me and Eyceking? You've been very noncommital for a while now.
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Post Post #1883 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:10 am

Post by Glork »

Phoebus' behavior is one of the things I still have yet to look over. Like I said, Patrick, I've read D2-earlyD3, but I've not looked at Phoebus' behavior D1 and I have not examined your "revelation" regarding his communique to you.


And honestly, I'm not getting anything about this "three week gap" discrepancy. Everything regarding Phoebus' communique to Patrick -- contents, date, etc. -- is something that we either have to take on face value as being true or something to reject if Patrick is scum. I understand that Eyce is searching for disparities which may prove that you were making it up, but I cannot in good conscience say that I feel strongly one way or another.


Finally, if it seems that I'm being noncommittal, it's because
I am noncommittal
right now. I don't know who the last scum is, and I'm still working towards figuring that out. I'm not about to overextend myself on an attack against a single player without doing my homework first. I haven't arrived at a decision because it's so split down the middle, I'm literally flip-flopping in my own head just about every single time I look at this stupid game.
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Post Post #1884 (ISO) » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by Patrick »

Eh. That's a bizarre thing to say. I didn't ever suggest that you "overextend on an attack against a single player". Where did that notion come from? You are right that the three week thing is a non issue.
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Post Post #1885 (ISO) » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:44 pm

Post by Glork »

It actually came from my experience in Mafia 60. I was honed in on MBL because I thought he was scum, but when I isolated your posts and looked at your relations with CES and CDB, I started to wonder if maybe I'd jumped into the wrong part of the sharkpool. As it turns out, my initial guess was right there, but for a while I was seriously wondering if I'd been making a horrible, horrible mistake this time.

I think the different approach I've taken in this endgame is mainly a product of the fact that I just have no idea which way to turn right now. In just about every other endgame I've been in (which is only a very small handful -- maybe four or so?), I've had a pretty clear-cut idea of where I was going to be voting before the day started. That's not the case here, so I'm trying to be as thorough as possible with my own reads. Truth be told, I think discussion in endgame is usually pretty fruitless. I just feel that I'm going to get a better idea of things by looking for clues on my own, rather than from talking with you two.
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Post Post #1886 (ISO) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:28 am

Post by Glork »

*shrug*
Vote: Eyceking



>.<
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Post Post #1887 (ISO) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:23 am

Post by Patrick »

Waves hi.
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Post Post #1888 (ISO) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:30 am

Post by Patrick »

So, we've taken a step in the right direction, since I'm now confirmed town. I don't plan on dragging this out eternally, but I'm not going to vote until I'm happy(ish). Both of you will probably want to explain to me, in any number of words, why I should be hammering the other and not you.

Glork, what made you just vote Eyceking out of the blue there? What swung it in the end? I need to see whether you had legit reasons because you've been defending Eyceking most of the game.

Eyceking, you were asked by Glork to list reasons why both Patrick and Glork might be scum. I guess now you only have to list reasons against Glork.
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Post Post #1889 (ISO) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:16 am

Post by Glork »

Oh, thank goodness.

....Unless you're just screwing with me, Patrick. I am going to give you a mouthful during postgame if that's the case.


First of all, Patrick -- I realize this may be out of the blue to you (and probably Eyce as well), but it's far from out-of-the-blue for me. I've put extensive thought into what to do here

There are severeal reasons that ultimately led me to vote for Eyceking.

1) Meta on Simenon. After reviewing his behavior towards Stoofer, I decided that Simenon would be more likely to bus/distance from his scumbuddy than not. He left his vote sitting around on Eyceking for basically the entire latter portion of his life, but Eyce was never seriously a lynch target once Stoof died -- especially with me defending Eyce so staunchly throughout the game. This is a reasonably weak tell, and it's not really the kind of thing that Eyce could possibly defend against. Nevertheless, it was a factor in my decision, and I feel it worth mentioning.

2) Percieved scum interactions with Simenon/Stoofer on D2. When Simenon launched his attack on Stoof based on the "last communique" thing, he asked what people thought about the whole situation. Eyce critiqued Simenon's attack in this post, an indirect defense of Stoofer. Furthermore, when Simenon asked why Eyce "answered for Stoofer," Eyce replied that he was simply answering the question that Sim had posed, and Sim backed down without raising any points about the connection. Legitimate Simenon-Eyce connection there. Another interesting thing to note -- nobody else really answered Simenon's request for opinions on "why Stoof is scum," yet Sim chose not to pursue the issue. The whole thing struck me as more-than-coincidental. Eyce was the only one who stepped up and defended Stoof, and Sim/Eyce were entirely too friendly with each other.

3) Eyce's voting habits. He played follow-the-others too much for my liking. I especially noticed this on D3 when he followed during the momentum against muse and then slid over to Adel when Adel became a more viable target. It also happened yesterday when Muse became an evident "target." Finally, I got the feeling that Eyce was angling his stance against you, Patrick, because he didn't feel that I was a realistic lynch candidate. I think he hoped to square off with you and force me to make a decision. Well... I have made one. D4 was intereseting because Simenon and Eyce were really the only viable lynch candidates during the day. Throughout D4, Eyce danced around and never really offered an opinion on anybody until he pretty much had to. He did, at one point, say that the chances of Patrick and Mert being scum were "slim," but he was still setting himself up against Muse. He finally laid a vote down on Simenon shortly after MeMe's "93 hours until deadline" vote count, when the VC was 2 for Sim and 2 for Eyce. I just feel as though he tried to avoid definitively weighing in on the Simenon issue as much as possible (even when directly asked about why Simenon might send a fakecult communique as either town or as scum).

4) Pheobus. This was the hardest for me to figure out. One one hand, if I even considered Phoebus' alleged message to you, Patrick, that would be an acknowledgment that you were telling the truth about it and that he did indeed change his mind. I've flipped on this probably a dozen times in the last day or so, but I ultimately decided (and I mean this as no offense to you) that you probably didn't have the foresight to plant the seeds of this "investigation" in that manner, especially when one takes into account the fact that Sim would've recieved Phoebus' role at daybreak, so you couldn't possibly know that he even
was
a backup cop. I suppose it's *POSSIBLE* that you all decided "Hey, if one of us gets Phoebus' role, claim backup cop and set up for an investigation on Patrick," but that struck me as rather far-fetched.


So yeah, that's about it. I'm still not completely satisfied with the whole Roleblocking thing, but it was a little too WIFOM for me to consider. I also ended up throwing out the protown tell I had from Eyce's "I'm testing your honesty" Communique to me for various reasons.
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Post Post #1890 (ISO) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by Patrick »

Ok guys, I'll be rereading certain parts over the next few days and probably asking questions here and there. And I await Eyceking's case against Glork with interest.
Glork wrote:....Unless you're just screwing with me, Patrick. I am going to give you a mouthful during postgame if that's the case.
This is not something I'd ever do.
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Post Post #1891 (ISO) » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:04 am

Post by Patrick »

It's just occurred to me that all three of us here are James Bond fans.


Anyway, Eyceking, I know you're out there, because you posted in a few hours ago in the game you're modding. I'll probably have some things for Glork to address, but I'd rather you post your case first, so that you can't leech off anything I say if you're scum. Can I remind you that you were asked for some analysis 12 days ago. Of course, you might want to respond to Glork too. Just picking up on one of his points: It seems that yesterday you had very serious concerns about me being scum and I was your top suspect. Where were you while we were busy lynching muse? Most of your posts yesterday were shots against me, and I think I can track down one post that mentioned muse at all, where you questioned her strange shadowing Eteocles action. Were you actually happy with a muse lynch? Were you worried that I might slip through to victory if I was scum?
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Post Post #1892 (ISO) » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:37 am

Post by Patrick »

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can we get another prod on Eyceking please? 5 days without a post :cry:
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Post Post #1893 (ISO) » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:02 pm

Post by Eyceking »

Didn't get a prod yet - don't give me one. Working on it. Honestly. *crosses heart, hopes to die*
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Post Post #1894 (ISO) » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:29 am

Post by Patrick »

Glrok why did you suggest a massclaim on day 3? What made you think a massclaim was a good idea at that point?
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Post Post #1895 (ISO) » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:01 am

Post by Glork »

Honestly? I don't remember, exactly.

Looking back at it, I think that I wanted to make as much information public knowledge as possible because A) I felt there was a significant possiblity of the scums not knowing each other; and B) It would have
severely
limited the scums' ability to improvies regardless of whether they were together or isolated.
There were issues and theories regarding Communique Extras, role abilities, the Vanilla-Maker, and I was definitely worried that scums were slipping misinformation with all of the confusion. I wanted to systematically go through
everything
so that we could mitigate the chaos and try to make sense of what was going on.
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Post Post #1896 (ISO) » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:28 am

Post by Patrick »

Eyceking, my patience with you is wearing very thin.
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Post Post #1897 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:45 am

Post by Glork »

Limited access for about twelve days. I should be checking in approximately once daily to respond to anything outstanding, but anything lengthy will have to wait.

Hopefully, though, Patrick will have come to the right decision well before then. ;)
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Post Post #1898 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:29 pm

Post by Eyceking »

Glork wrote:I also ended up throwing out the protown tell I had from Eyce's "I'm testing your honesty" Communique to me for various reasons.
I want to know these reasons.

Still going.
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Post Post #1899 (ISO) » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:19 am

Post by Patrick »

How come you haven't voted Glrok yet?
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