Mafiascum.net

↑ ɀefiend wrote:To be SC+massive means you and NH are town. Only way that's possible is if both NH and shadowez were independently blocked. NH probably by the scum blocker and shadowez by Firebringer (who claimed to have blocked Jeanne).

↑ ɀefiend wrote:BECAUSE I'VE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE GAME THAT THERE IS 100% PROBABILITY OF SCUM IN NH/GL UNLESS FB LIED.

If FB didn't lie, SC gets the hammer. If FB did lie, then fuck him and this game.

These two posts probably. SC already made the "FB didn't lie" point

Probably because Dwlee was onto GL and NH could have gotten a guilty on him and was basically confirmed town due to the Ninja flip.

OK I see why NH had to die regardless.

There are a LOT of things bothering me by both of you. I'm just gonna start cramming questions into the thread.

In post 1867, SirCakez wrote:I was certain in a NH/massive team, just more certain on massive
Then massive flipped Ninja and confirmed NH as town which of course leaves you as scum

since the only way you and NH were both town is if Fire lied

which I highly doubt

Is this a scum slip? FYPOV there is NO way GL and NH are both town. Furthermore, IF the only way for GL and NH to both be town was FB lying, then FYPOV you wouldn't just "doubt" it, you would claim it's impossible that he lied.

I meant I highly doubted Fire lied. Fire could have lied and GL still be scum, they aren't linked now that the weird Tracker rules have been clarified.

In post 1868, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 1867, SirCakez wrote:the only way you and NH were both town is if Fire lied which I highly doubt

No, this is a false notion that I've figured out.

Aero's post:

In post 1585, Aeronaut wrote:

Let's just be clear here. If there is/was a tracker in the game, they would receive NO RESULT if the player tracked is role blocked. They would also receive NO RESULT if the player is jail kept. If the player does not visit anyone, they would receive PLAYER DID NOT VISIT ANYBODY. Finally, if the tracker was blocked, then the tracker would receive NO RESULT

Obviously you must have blocked shaddowez N1 and Fire N2, who just happened to be the track targets both times. The ascetic push on me never made any sense which is why I was so certain NH was scum

I agree that an ascetic mafia existing is unlikely because alongside Ninja and 1SBP would probably be imbalanced. So +1 for you.

But this quote contradicts your general sentiment throughout the game that "why wasn't a tracker (NH) blocked?" Explain.

In post 1880, SirCakez wrote:I meant I highly doubted Fire lied. Fire could have lied and GL still be scum, they aren't linked now that the weird Tracker rules have been clarified.

Speaking about that, and since NH is conf-tracker, can you please detail what you think N1 and N2 looked like? Please include names, roles, and targets. I'm still trying to apply the unconventional roleblocking/tracker mechanics to this game.

@GL I would appreciate if you did this too.

In post 1881, ɀefiend wrote:
But this quote contradicts your general sentiment throughout the game that "why wasn't a tracker (NH) blocked?" Explain.

I was arguing why wasn't the tracker killed, since they were claiming throughout to be blocked. The problem was other players were also claiming blocked.

I didn't see a reason why scum would target someone other than an outed tracker on D1 with a NK/RB, and I knew shaddowez wasn't lying about being blocked as soon as I saw his flip. Then Fire claimed to have jailed Thor and been blocked, and NH kept pushing the two blockers or GL!ascetic angle, and since I'm not ascetic the simplest explanation was that one of the blocks was made up since the shaddowez/Fire blocks were confirmed

As for why they were left alive, I didn't consider the possibility of a ninja

In post 1882, ɀefiend wrote:

In post 1880, SirCakez wrote:I meant I highly doubted Fire lied. Fire could have lied and GL still be scum, they aren't linked now that the weird Tracker rules have been clarified.

Speaking about that, and since NH is conf-tracker, can you please detail what you think N1 and N2 looked like? Please include names, roles, and targets. I'm still trying to apply the unconventional roleblocking/tracker mechanics to this game.

@GL I would appreciate if you did this too.

I think it went down like this:

N1
SirCakez blocks shaddowez
shaddowez attempts to neighborize GL (fails)
NH tracks shaddowez (no result)
Fire JKs Jeanne

N2
SirCakez blocks Fire
Fire JKs Thor (fails)
NH tracks Fire (no result)

So there was one blocker throughout targeting other players, and scum weren't worried about NH's tracks because massive was making the kills. This explains why NH thought there were two blocks in play and why they were left alive for so long

GL knows more about the night actions then me since he's the scum here. I think what he said is accurate, except switch him for me in the night actions obviously. I'm still pretty confused about all the roleblocking mechanics tbh, I was leaving that to others.

Damn I thought weekends were counted as half days. Wrong mod I guess. Been busy with work, but I'll try and get to this later tonight.

Have nothing really to add
I think GL has made it pretty clear he has inside knowledge of the night actions, if you still have questions fire 'em off.

Here are a lot of thoughts I have about the game at the moment. Feel free to pick off what you think needs responding to that will convince me.

- Neither of you have strongly scumread each other or even somewhat pushed each other til today when it became obvious you had to. Even yesterDay, SC was like certain it was NH+massive and GL was like "don't make me choose between SC and massive today, just lynch NH first." Basically, both of your progressions of reads on each other don't really add up this game.

- SC was actually willing to vote Massive pretty readily yesterday. If SC was scum with massive, he could have just parked his vote on NH. A GL lynch would win him the game (if massive came back and voted with me and NH), a NL would have won him the game (if massive simply never came back), and a SC lynch was looking pretty unlikely at the time because of the hydra disagreement, and the real/feigned reluctance of GL to vote SC (or massive).

- On the other hand, a massive lynch was happening whether GL hammered him or not, because I would hammer before letting it NL. So GL's vote on massive looks like a very redundant and regretful "bus."

- If GL's argument is that SC bussed, it wasn't a very aggressive bus. I mean, SC was calling out massive for pretty much the same reasons any townie would call him out. Massive's responses were more akin to deflection than actually trying to sell a bus.

- Both SC and GL have disturbing trajectories regarding massive. SC has a LOT of posts questioning the massive wagon/votes for massive/case against massive. Meanwhile, GL is largely distant from massive. So this is a case of whether I believe veiled chainsawing was going on or just flat out purposeful avoidance of each other.

- SC's play on D1 was catastrophic and lynch-worthy and yet this was never brought up again because all the attention surrounded the claimed PRs. This allows him a comfortable position on the sideline to pick his shots vs NH or GL as need be. I very much dislike SC's post (can't link/find it right now cuz mobile) that is basically lining up lynches via a deal with the SK, Aristo. If SC is scum then he would be very much warming to the idea of three townies being on the chopping block regardless of what happens. At the same time though, I have to wonder if mafia would rather have Aristo alive or dead at that point.

- Which brings me to GL's play on the Day Aristo was lynched. GL is adamant about lynching Aristo no matter what, although he does continue to entertain the idea that NH is probably scum. I probably need to go look at the voting patterns of everyone that day because there's something I'm probably overlooking.

Anyway that's all I can think of right now, I'll try to remember/reread later.

Couple things I want to note
-massive tried to push me around with his bullshit "associative with Thor" case which I think is notable. Unless you think that was cross bussing or some shit.
-I never made a deal with the SK? I wasn't around when he got hamemted and claimed SK subsequently so ???

In post 1232, SirCakez wrote:

In post 1230, Aristophanes wrote:GL, FB, I've got a deal for you.
I'll compromise on an NH lynch today.

If they flip town, we lynch GL tomorrow.
If they flip scum, we lynch me tomorrow.

Thoughts?

I actually kind of like this plan.

This post.

If you're scum, you saw two lynches on town being lined up (as well as Aristo, an anti-town player surviving).

If you're town, you were fine with lining up GL after NH because……? You never really gave a reason at the time.

Oh I thought you meant actually negotiating with the SK like SK targets
I was fine with it because at the time I thought there was guaranteed scum between them due to the roleblocking mechanics (and GL is scum so I was correct in the end) and I thought a 2 for 1 town for scum trade wasn't awful.

I was adamant about lynching Aristo because he was scum, both by play and by role. I had him pegged D1. I think SirCakez wanted to keep him alive because he knew Artisto would get lynched eventually and Aristo was going to kill me that night.

Also I was not largely distant towards massive. I started a huge wagon on him D1 with BBT. The problem with his slot was that it was so lurky that I couldn't get a solid read on him one way or the other, and then I felt NH was scum and wound up spending most of the game fighting with them.

SC do you have a response to GL's case he posted at the beginning of the Day? The post about Shadowez etc.

Also can you try to talk about your repeated questioning of the massive wagon/votes on Day 1?

In post 1870, GuiltyLion wrote:In fact, as I reread shaddowez's ISO, it fits perfectly:

In post 116, shaddowez wrote:It definitely feels like Cake is White Knighting massive based on his willingness/joking regarding the NH and Jeanne wagons.

You have no scum reads, and don't want to continue wagoning people....yep, I'm good with this wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

In post 282, shaddowez wrote:SC - Do you have anything new to contribute? Basically every post of your since 180 has been repeating yourself (which you say in your posts) or asking for other people's opinions on NH. Do you have any other reads?

shaddowez was pushing you early for a lot of D1, which would explain why a scumteam with SC would block him.

Also I found this when digging through his ISO:

In post 515, Night Hunters wrote:Thor is obvtown precisely for his Fire push. Scum Thor could easily justify jumping on Cakes or massive, instead he pushes Fire. Unless his team is SirCakez and massive, Thor is town.

lmao

In post 1872, SirCakez wrote:Titus's reads were awful, that's nothing new.
A lot of people were pushing me early day 1, that means nothing.

I did respond to it Zefiend.

The massive questioning from Day 1 - I beat this to death back when I was getting wagoned for it but basically at the time it felt like a pointless wagon post-RVS with nothing backing it up.

Guess I'll drum up a VCA later tonight.

p r o d g e b o y s

is any wagon ever pointless?