Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[LicketyQuickety]

Hi

Your move?

Waiting for std

Well this means 1 of 2 things. Either NM is Scum with Egix, or NM and Egix are both Town. Pretty sure I am leaning the former.

Egix and NM cannot be scum together.

I said it earlier but I think it holds up still. Scum can only come from one of {StD, LQ, D'Arby} and {Egix, NM}. I don't think any other combination is possible.

I don't think that is a bad solve at all.

[DArby]

Egix's move is the most town outcome, tbh. If Egix votes for NM eventually, town should win.

[DArby]

Hi

Your move?

Waiting for std

Well this means 1 of 2 things. Either NM is Scum with Egix, or NM and Egix are both Town. Pretty sure I am leaning the former.

Egix and NM cannot be scum together.

I said it earlier but I think it holds up still. Scum can only come from one of {StD, LQ, D'Arby} and {Egix, NM}. I don't think any other combination is possible.

I don't think that is a bad solve at all.

Wdym by "that"?

[LicketyQuickety]

Hi

Your move?

Waiting for std

Well this means 1 of 2 things. Either NM is Scum with Egix, or NM and Egix are both Town. Pretty sure I am leaning the former.

Egix and NM cannot be scum together.

I said it earlier but I think it holds up still. Scum can only come from one of {StD, LQ, D'Arby} and {Egix, NM}. I don't think any other combination is possible.

I don't think that is a bad solve at all.

Wdym by "that"?

That there is a Scum in StD/DArby and Egix/NM. I remember the post you made about that. Sorry for getting paranoid about you earlier. I had to be sure.

[lendunistus]

Mini Normal 2248 Official Vote Count - 4.2

Not_Mafia

(2): LicketyQuickety, DArby

[E -1]

Not Voting

(3): Egix96, Save The Dragons, Not_Mafia

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-12-01 16:00:00)

[DArby]

I'm never opposed to being scrutinized. It's part of the game and all.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm never opposed to being scrutinized. It's part of the game and all.

When you owned up to getting worked up about being pressured, that was what sealed the deal for me TRing you.

[Not_Mafia]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

[LicketyQuickety]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

I can't believe you are doubling down on this.

In the case a 2-Shot goes down N1 it's literally the same exact thing as a night-specific. The game in question is a N1/N2 and I was a backup WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS of N1/N2. It would actually be BETTER if the role died there because then I would have gotten to use the ability every night.

You're right that there's no standardization of X-shot backup, but it's the exact same for night specific.

And irt getting 4 shots, that's actually not true because, for example, we don't know if T3 actually used any of their shots or who they were on. So you can't say it's 4 full shots because this game demonstrates that we don't actually know anything about T3's invests. And Darby clearly said in the same post they claimed that they were 2-Shot. That's exactly what I would expect in this setup if DArby's claim is legit.

But I'll

UNVOTE:

for now and give you a chance to give your own setup spec for this game. Like what do you think is realistic for PRs for this game? What are you thinking with Traitor? Or do you think it's just 2 Group Scum? Like, 2 TPRs with a backup seems very reasonable in a 2 Group Scum with a Traitor. So what setup are you seeing here?

[LicketyQuickety]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

Why not?

Reasons.

Darby is town

I mean, this looks like it could be an invest?

[DArby]

I was the target of the neighborizor btw

I don’t trust this.

Why not?

Reasons.

Darby is town

I mean, this looks like it could be an invest?

Haha no.

Give me like 48 hours and I can explain this.

[DArby]

But there is a reason Pan agreed. It was not an invest.

[LicketyQuickety]

Oh also, thinking about it more, if I was scum, wouldn’t I want to be here more during d2? If my partner or whatever is getting pushed hard, wouldn’t I want to either give myself towncred or try and defend her? I’d be able to tell in the scum PT that something was wrong, and in normal circumstances I’m not that passive of a player. Scum!me doesn’t make that much sense.

You were literally there after the hammer. You even made this passing comment like you thought Gamma was Town, which, all things considered, was really freaking weird.

[DArby]

I’m sorry can you elaborate?

[LicketyQuickety]

929

[LicketyQuickety]

StD why do I keep you Darby and LQ alive?

I said I don't trust you. That has nothing to do with my read on you. Please calm down while I read through d2.

Like, this and other interactions like it between DArby and Pan just give me the creeps. You sort of pull this gentle sort of killing you with kindness thing and it's just weird.

This Day you have been totally different. I call that a change in narrative and IMO it's a reason to SR you based on play.

[DArby]

929

That post is an acknowledgment that I didn’t think Gamma was in bad faith.

[DArby]

StD why do I keep you Darby and LQ alive?

I said I don't trust you. That has nothing to do with my read on you. Please calm down while I read through d2.

Like, this and other interactions like it between DArby and Pan just give me the creeps. You sort of pull this gentle sort of killing you with kindness thing and it's just weird.

This Day you have been totally different. I call that a change in narrative and IMO it's a reason to SR you based on play.

My interaction with Pan is for the same reason as T3’s town read on me and I cannot elaborate further.

[LicketyQuickety]

Based on a light meta dive of Darby, I sorta feel like they are Town here.

Mefia is hard!

I can TR pretty much everyone in the game at this point.

I have a post cooked up in my drafts but I'm waiting to see what NM has to say in response to my last interaction with them.

[DArby]

It is hard lol.

Tho, if you think I’m town, please believe Egix is town too.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, the read on Egix holds. They are more punchy as Scum.

VOTE: NM

Back here I guess.

[LicketyQuickety]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... t_Specific

For roles that players will want to use immediately, 1-Shot is very close to Night 1 in effect (and 2-Shot to Night 1,2).

But in one angle I can see is that 2-Shot Detective might want to use their actions N2+. But if that is the case, then what if it's possible that the Mafia Informed knew of a Detective in the game? If so it would mean that Gamma would be doing all the NKs since they were under heavy suspicion. It would be a move that doesn't make intuitive sense because you wouldn't actually want to get a guilty on one of your Scum buddies. But this can still be accounted for with a planned bus on Gamma. But then you risk the last Group Scum to get investigated given you haven't killed Detective yet. But the Enchant NK seems to be a PR hunt. Somehow Scum figured out who isn't PR? I was obvious, but what about StD? Or Pan? T3 I supposed was easy enough to spot as PR given 912.

If Detective gets a guilty, but then Town has a backup Detective, then that is kinda ???

NM's take on Detective isn't as bad as I originally thought. Because Detective is just a less powerful cop in this setup.

Okay, say DArby's claim is BS. Town has 2 PRs. Is it enough for there to just be an Informed Group Scum of what the roles in the game are? 2 TPRs vs 1 SPR? The setup is 11 Players. 2 Scum seems viable with low TPRs.

So the question of DArby's claim is really about whether there is a Traitor in the game or not. A Detective can get a false negative on a Traitor, so it would be possible for there to be a Backup Detective I think in that case. We can't assume Informed Mafia flipping D2 is "Normal" for the setup. We have to go based on the average setup, not what happens to happen in this particular game of this setup.

DArby's claim is suicide if they are the last Group Scum with no Traitor. However, if there

is

a Traitor, then DArby's claim makes more sense.

Okay, clearly I have some ISO's to do.

And ISO's are roughly done at this point. I think all things considered, the team is just NM/StD.

Egix holding off on Limming NM is a good look. I think given the setup spec talk and how Backup Detective is just as viable as not makes me want to read DArby as Town. And DArby is pretty Townie based on Meta and based on having some really Townie sounding reactions.

If I get snowed by voting NM here, well, NM should participate more to make themselves more readable over the course of the game. His angle that DArby's claim HAS to be BS is pretty much proven untrue at this point. I stick by my original statement that NM doubling down on this probably just means they are desperate Scum.

Anyways, I've given way too many different takes on this game. If it's not clear I can't be teamed with anyone you need your head examined (Sorry Egix, but you really are tin foiling on me atp because both StD and yourself also have bad things surrounding Gamma.)

[DArby]

I will be so mad if StD needs to be replaced it’s almost been the 48.

[LicketyQuickety]

I will be so mad if StD needs to be replaced it’s almost been the 48.

He's V/LA atm. Because of the weekend, I think.

[LicketyQuickety]

Egix not getting that I couldn't make more believable distancing with Gamma if I wanted to is something they need to consider because my distancing act with Roden in the newbie we played together is partially why Roden was able to carry it home for Scum after I get Limmed D1. Roden is a competent Scum player, but they wouldn't have been able to do it if I had bad interactions with them.

That game is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=87394