Mafiascum.net

In post 1892, Aristeia wrote:mena i just want to be clear here

if irrel flips town you get flipped tomm and you never call bop in any game with me again ok?

If we flip Relly today and he flips town then yes, I get flipped tomorrow -- I'm not committing never pulling BoP in any games ever again and talking about this is tantalisingly close to OOG, if I understand the rules correctly

I think scum is in you and Relly -- I am never 100% certain but I think atp that skitt and dats are town and that scum is in the two of you. I'm trusting dats, maybe a little reluctantly because I haven't really thought about how good his reasons for town!you are, that you're town

but to be clear: I am not saying there is no way that Relly can be town here. I'm saying that I prefer him to you!scum and currently think I prefer him as lim. I also know I'm town and it's better that he die than me given that I think he has high odds of being scum

In post 1893, Aristeia wrote:

In post 1890, Menalque wrote:like if you're going to vote Relly do it because you think he's scum not because you're worried about something that won't happen

I'm going to vote for Irrel today because that's the elimination you want to happen and I personally don't enjoy the type of things you've said about me. I do not want it to get more unpleasant.

I wanted to leave this be and address it in post but unfortunately I think it is game relevant

I do not want you to vote Relly because I want that lim to happen. I'm not sure what things I've said about you that have been unpleasant but sorry if they were. if you can point me at what I've said that has been hurtful that would be helpful because I don't know what it is I did that has made this unpleasant for you

I am not going to shout at you if you decide that you prefer to lim me > Relly

I would like you to acknowledge that while I am sometimes wrong I am also sometimes dead right, and that while I don't consider myself a great player I also don't think I'm dogshit and I don't like to be made to feel that way

if I've made the game unpleasant for anyone else by my conduct, I also apologise for that

I am and have been attempting to play in a way that is as free of AtE as possible since my return (if I may not quite live up to that standard it's because I am only human) and additionally to try and keep things light and fun while playing to wincon

but it is more important to me that nobody feels like shit as a result of the game than that I win, so again, sorry to anybody who has been made to feel that way. happy to discuss more in postgame as this seems like a fraught topic while flips haven't happened

(again, Ari, while I don't want to linger on the point it would be very helpful to me if you could point out what I've said/where I was unpleasant to you bc I'm really sort of lost)

The long post that I wrote and lost twice was weirdly similar to menalque’s above posts

Here’s the summary: I’m pretty angry. I want to confine those emotions to one post for game pleasantness.

Datisi, stop being lazy about sorting between me and Menalque.

Skitter, if you’re going to vote me make the scumcase. Right now it seems like you’re voting me just because I’m doing everything I can to get a mena lim (when I could have come into today confused and waiting for a lim to present itself - this is a reason youre townreading mena, remember?). Ive been angry and direct and, fypov, manipulative. I’ve seen you scumread shoshin for the same moves and you know I like how she plays. Consider my motivations, not just my most recent posts towards you pls.

Aristeia, vote me if you’re scum or you think I’m scum. Don’t vote me to avoid an argument or something, because you know I’ve put blood sweat and tears into this game.

Fire, you’re the only one besides std and I who seems to see that anything mena is doing is scummy. Consider why you and std are basically being ignored and I’m collecting votes for making a push you (at least sort of) agree with. Please appeal to those you think are town a little louder, if it’s something you believe in.

I get that I’ve put myself into this 1v1 but I’m so mad that multiple players seem to be shrugging instead of sorting us. I feel so unheard and I can’t tell who’s scum but I’m very upset about the general way this game day has gone because I really thought I came into the day confident on a read and making the case as best I could and now I feel like mena’s couple of “don’t you dare” posts is going to win the day because it satisfies some meta expectation of mena. This just sucks.

Angry pity party over (and this is the short version lol)

I feel as though I am in a catch-22 where I either push hard for something I'm not sure about (often bad outcome) or I don't push hard for it and my passivity/uncertainty gets scumread and makes me an easier lim (bad outcome)

I, generally, have been trying to move away from BoP shit and acting like my reads are the shit when I know they're not, but also unsure how to get people invested in something if I'm not committing hard myself

to clarify, I guess: I would like to be listened to if I get flipped because I don't think my reads are total shit, but I also don't think they're mind-blowing or anything like that. I am now somewhat unsure if StD is scum but he still seems likely to me? fire has been consistently townie imo, and Roden has improved the mala slot a lot, although who knows, maybe I'm biased or being pocketed because his reasons for TRing me make a lot of sense fmpov

guess it could be NK15 who hammered because a different partner was in coalition and it would make me look bad but I'm not sure who

Relly seems way too sure about me and it's like he's fronting, and from what I can glean an important part of why he came after me seems to be because I wasn't here. I'm sure he wouldn't say that was the reason, but that's how it feels to me when he makes reference to "how I've played D2" when... I was away on holiday with two of my best friends for most of it, and then it was another best friend's -- who is also my flatmate -- birthday after getting back

Skitter and Dats are endless sources of paranoia for me but I've been trying to avoid bringing that into thread because I don't think it's that helpful. the summary reason is that while I think both of them can read me very well, I also wonder if they would try to deliberately white knight me for the towncred if they think I have a good chance of getting flipped anyway. probably more paranoid about skitt because I think her range is wider and I could see her angling to win in 5p after lims on me/relly if we're both town

ari -- I think I've had a decent read on in recent games but frankly also has a monster range and that's paranoia inducing too. I know her scumgame is to just survive, and I'm worried about whether she's also thinking about 5p elo after limming me/relly in either order. I'm mostly trusting dats and really hoping my read there is right, bc I have also had paranoia about whether ari/dats could actually be possible where they gang up to take down skitter after there being t/t lims on me and relly, but I thought that was unlikely because it's such a 100% committal play and I'm not sure it goes through after me/relly go down because I think ari probably comes out of that looking worst -- I guess the hope could be a win for dats in 3p elo but dats living there would be a red flag

How much time do we have left

I think Relly is on balance of probabilities more likely to be scum than Ari but I wouldn't say I'm so confident that I'd be surprised if I have it the wrong way round

that sucks if it is the wrong way round because I'm dying tomorrow for sure

I don't think it's skitter or dats, and kudos to either one (or both, perish the thought) if they're scum -- if it is one I'd say probably skitter but again her defending me seems needlessly complicated for what would be a hard 5p elo to win anyway, and I'm hoping that train of thought is correct

Relly seems to be keen for/worried about getting this lim in a way that I think town!him would be less so about, because he'd know that I die tomorrow which is not *that* big a loss even if limming scum!me today is obviously better fhpov

uh like a day and a half I think

bit less, 1 day 8hrs from this post

Because I hate this but uhhhhhhhhh page 77 and I’m not sure Menalque is scum. Hahahahaha I feel like an insane person making this post, it feels like a death wish. But. Do we really both make “sorry for heating up the thread” posts at the same time as tvs? Lol I hate mafia

1903 and 1905 are as honest as I can be about my thought process through the game thus far and I don't really know what else to add

I'll be around in some capacity to try and answer questions or engage, but I'm not going to be making any big cases/other posts à la StD

I had been trying to hold back some of what I was thinking/where I was at on some stuff while trying to figure it all out but we're probably past that being useful now and if I am going horrendously wrong in any of what I'm thinking or how I'm perceiving the game then I need somebody to tell me

I have also felt a catch-22 of continuing the push my strong scumread or re-evaluating and getting scumread for it (not exactly the same catch-22 but similar)

Let’s work together for like 8 hours? Is this an awful idea
We can always go back to 1v1ing after that?

Hahahahahahaha am I gamethrowing ahhhhhhh

In post 1908, Irrelephant11 wrote:Because I hate this but uhhhhhhhhh page 77 and I’m not sure Menalque is scum. Hahahahaha I feel like an insane person making this post, it feels like a death wish. But. Do we really both make “sorry for heating up the thread” posts at the same time as tvs? Lol I hate mafia

outside of you the only person I think is likely is Ari but I still think you're likely scum for the reasons I just stated and if I'm being totally honest I'm worried about having to relitigate this entire thing tomorrow if ari is town

I'm also concerned that your re-evaluation may be prompted by concern that you might lose the 1v1 and that would be, to borrow a phrase from antiquity "v bad for scum"

I am however happy to try and talk in case I am wrong and it's not you

I also have to admit that I've been skimming some of your posts while you've been tunnelled on me so if you already talked about this point me at where, but what do you think of skitter this game?

In post 1905, Menalque wrote:I think Relly is on balance of probabilities more likely to be scum than Ari but I wouldn't say I'm so confident that I'd be surprised if I have it the wrong way round

that sucks if it is the wrong way round because I'm dying tomorrow for sure

I don't think it's skitter or dats, and kudos to either one (or both, perish the thought) if they're scum -- if it is one I'd say probably skitter but again her defending me seems needlessly complicated for what would be a hard 5p elo to win anyway, and I'm hoping that train of thought is correct

Relly seems to be keen for/worried about getting this lim in a way that I think town!him would be less so about, because he'd know that I die tomorrow which is not *that* big a loss even if limming scum!me today is obviously better fhpov

This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game. As I’m writing this I can hear the scumcase for irrelephant getting longer but I don’t want to lim Menalque and then myself if we’re tvt ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

In post 1912, Menalque wrote:I'm also concerned that your re-evaluation may be prompted by concern that you might lose the 1v1 and that would be, to borrow a phrase from antiquity "v bad for scum"

I am however happy to try and talk in case I am wrong and it's not you

I also have to admit that I've been skimming some of your posts while you've been tunnelled on me so if you already talked about this point me at where, but what do you think of skitter this game?

1) this is why I have shoved down paranoia that it’s not you all game day, because the likelihood I get limmed goes way up for that exact reason if I reevaluate. But I *would* be fronting to keep tunneling you, at least in this ~moment~ (who knows how long it’ll last maybe I’ll still think it’s you soon) and that does seem worse

I’ve had multiple times where I mindmelded with skitter, which has always been one of my best ways to read her. But the mindmelds basically ended d2 so idk what to do with that

I think her voting for the wrong coalition is a town point. I think she lost the argument with Aristeia at start of d2 but I don’t think that makes her scum. I think her recent paranoia about ari made sense from town her

I think her townread on you has always been stronger than you deserved, but maybe I’m the dumb one who, without meta, can’t see that you’re obvtown

can you think of any reason why scum!her would commit this hard on defending me? because that's kind of the sticking point for me and why I've been sorta town binning her more than anything else

I just don't really see the motivation? I think without skitter/dats I almost certainly go down today and I don't think dats alone is necessarily enough to stop it because I think he has the most pull with ari but skitter probably has more pull with most other players in the PL

again, the only thing I can come up with is long-term towncred to try and win at 5p elo, but that seems equally do-able from skitt with just letting me go through or taking less risk from being such a voice against the current, then flipping you tomorrow for the push on me, and then having a tough 5p battle to try and win anyway

I don't think I'm obvtown to everyone, but I believe skitt and dats would see it where nobody else can

there was another game before I went on hiatus (I think? can try to find it) where skitt p much singlehandedly stopped me being mislimmed despite most everyone else being convinced I was scum, which is why I can believe in her reading me correctly when it might not be so to the rest of the PL

In post 1915, Irrelephant11 wrote:I think her voting for the wrong coalition is a town point. I think she lost the argument with Aristeia at start of d2 but I don’t think that makes her scum

again, sorry if you've been through this already, but please elaborate on the wrong coalition vote being a townpoint for her

and the argument with ari was about whether ari had agreed to sheep or not, right?

In post 1913, Irrelephant11 wrote:This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game

how is *that* the towniest post from him for you?

and while i know i've been called lazy, i don't appreciate it >.> i've read the points against him being scum, i don't see it. i could be wrong, i've been wrong before and i will be wrong again, but i don't think he has a red role pm this game. so. the only reason why i'm stalling is because i'm wondering if there's a chance i have some sorta revelation that makes me either sure in voting you, or sure in voting someone else. i know it's very unlikely to happen, but

In post 1913, Irrelephant11 wrote:This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game

how is *that* the towniest post from him for you?

and while i know i've been called lazy, i don't appreciate it >.> i've read the points against him being scum, i don't see it. i could be wrong, i've been wrong before and i will be wrong again, but i don't think he has a red role pm this game. so. the only reason why i'm stalling is because i'm wondering if there's a chance i have some sorta revelation that makes me either sure in voting you, or sure in voting someone else. i know it's very unlikely to happen, but

I need to reread that bit because I did look it over but my memory is hazy of exactly what was said/being debated

why do i keep double-posting >_>

i will be so fuckin mad if scum!mena decided to not fake paranoia on me because ~it's not helpful for the game~ and i bought it but it is what it is

I thought she was potentially your partner for awhile there. But if you’re town…

Scum skitter wants me > you > ?? as the three mislims because that’s somehow better than you > me > ??
Probably not
Town skitter just has a strong townread and defends her friend she thinks she can read
Sounds more likely

Which is why I’ve been arguing with her so much I think, I’ve subconsciously sorted her as more likely town but I’ve thought she’s missing the obvious

Petit: I think nearly any wagon that flips in a way scum likes has scum on it. The coalition wagon flipped in a way scum likes, so I think scum was on it.

Yes that was the skitter/ari argument

One sec datisi

In post 1920, Datisi wrote:

In post 1913, Irrelephant11 wrote:This is maybe the towniest post Menalque has posted all game

how is *that* the towniest post from him for you?

and while i know i've been called lazy, i don't appreciate it >.> i've read the points against him being scum, i don't see it. i could be wrong, i've been wrong before and i will be wrong again, but i don't think he has a red role pm this game. so. the only reason why i'm stalling is because i'm wondering if there's a chance i have some sorta revelation that makes me either sure in voting you, or sure in voting someone else. i know it's very unlikely to happen, but

You’re right I meant 1903