Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia II {Game Over!}

[Moratorium]

So.. I guess I don't understand why the game ended.

- There's still a mechanic in the game that can protect players.
- There's still a non-scum mechanic in the game that can kill players.
- Scum doesn't have a majority for votes to force them to get daykills.

If it was a normal game, you get to a tie and town can no longer do anything to kill people. But here, Dr. Pepper could still kill people, scum wasn't assured of a kill due to security guard, and sending no one to prison was still an option.

Am I misunderstanding something?

[Percy]

This was one of the first games I ever played here on MS, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thanks guys!

Also, here's the quicktopic link:
http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/5DRYEEz98ZaKi

I'd especially like to thank Albert, Zach and solo for being great scumbuddies, and MM for a great game.


Also, Dr Pepper was killed by zach, Mora.

[Kublai Khan]

Bah congrats scum..

Yeah, the setup looks a little swingy. The mafia seems to have too much killing ability (poison gas massacre springs to mind).

And yeah, Zwenchenwasser could have tried to look a little more town.

Moratorium and ortolan did a great job, but that last night killed too many townies for them to have a chance (plus inactive killa seven was useless).

Really good and entertaining game though, Machiavellian-Mafia!

[Moratorium]

Ah ok, didn't see that.

[Moratorium]

It will keep that creep Moriatum or whatever he calls himself...

sadface

[Dr Pepper]

Actually Percy, I wasn't. I believe there were at least a few strats that could have saved town and potentially even myself for the win. One of my abilities was One shot bullet proof which prevent zachs day kill attempt. The mod even recorded that my vest stopped the first kill attempt on me, even 100% day vig.

I guess I am saying the same things Mora is, why did the game end?

[Moratorium]

Interesting.

[Moratorium]

Apparently the quickboard broke on scum, prevented them from removing mistakes such as Percy communicating while in prison. (Not his fault, he was trying to fix it.)

[Moratorium]

You win with your Mafia group when group members constitute at least 50% of all players alive and

it is impossible to not maintain the 50% threshold.

I guess that's what's in dispute. I think an aborted tie may have just been snatched from the jaws of victory.

[ortolan]

You win with your Mafia group when group members constitute at least 50% of all players alive and it is impossible to not maintain the 50% threshold.

This is kind of ambiguous but I guess seeing as they had 4/8 of the players and there were no remaining dayvigs they fulfilled this criteria, like in any other game.

[Moratorium]

An example scenario that puts town back in the game:

Day
Zach dayvigs Dr. Pepper.
Dr. Pepper is immune, and survives.

Night
No one is sent to prison.
Mafia attempts to shoot someone (choosing someone other than Dr. Pepper because he just demonstrated immunity), but that person is captured by security guard.
Dr. Pepper targets and kills a mafia member.

If the mafia win scenario was "You win with your Mafia group when group members constitute at least 50% of all players alive" and that's all, then sure this game should have been ended immediately.

[Albert B. Rampage]

bang bang

Day 4 we had two dayvigs and four scum left. It was a total joke.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It will keep that creep Moriatum or whatever he calls himself...

sadface

I badmouth random players in the game in the QT to convince myself that they're the bad guys so I have no guilt when I have them killed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Seven scum and a SK, with three millers on the town side... we were severely disadvantaged.

I did my absolute best - but then with the scum having the ability to change answers... it was hopeless from the get-go.

[zachattack]

How did I get sent with jakep for powers is what I want to know. I'd been acting like a solid townie, but jakep really came out of left field, I couldn't believe our luck when people started pushing to send me with him instead of sly. Also, why did English Argo say yes?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seven scum and a SK, with three millers on the town side... we were severely disadvantaged.

I did my absolute best - but then with the scum having the ability to change answers... it was hopeless from the get-go.

Its balanced IMO. 25 players, 6 scum +1 traitor = ~1/3 of the town. Keep in mind that we can't daytalk either.

We won because on day 2 we successfully manipulated 6 town players into going to the PD when we unleashed the gas, and on day 3 we successfully manipulated one townie to volunteer herself into the PD with someone who claimed a guilty on her. On day 4 it was just a quick cleanup, with or without the two day-vigs.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This was one of the first games I ever played here on MS, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thanks guys!

Also, here's the quicktopic link:
http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/5DRYEEz98ZaKi

I'd especially like to thank Albert, Zach and solo for being great scumbuddies, and MM for a great game.


Also, Dr Pepper was killed by zach, Mora.

Ahh thanks! You deserve most the credit for this win though, with your claim on day 3. They walked right into that one.

And if ortolan investigated Zach, that would have been hilarious lol

[DrippingGoofball]

Good thing you couldn't daytalk, too.

If the scum didn't have crazy powers like changing the answers, Percy would be dead. Another crazy power was to sequester a whole bunch of players, too. When you have an SK, plus 6 players (informed minority) with this much power, and a town that CANNOT LYNCH, it is unwinnable for the town.

And to add insult to injury, we were pleagued by millers, so even if we got investigations, they were dodgy. And if that wasn't bad enough, the scum had a godfather.

With 3 millers, a godfather, the few investigations that we could get out of a heavily-favored for the scum PDs, were tainted. Was there even a death-miller???

[Albert B. Rampage]

Good thing you couldn't daytalk, too.

If the scum didn't have crazy powers like changing the answers, Percy would be dead.

If the scum couldn't change the answers, I wouldn't have came up with the idea for Percy to claim a guilty in the first place. Percy was the most pro-town looking player in our group up until that point.

[DrippingGoofball]

If the scum couldn't change the answers, I wouldn't have came up with the idea for Percy to claim a guilty in the first place. Percy was the most pro-town looking player in our group up until that point.

Of course. But once again, reading the extensive list of scum tricks and powers, and comparing the lynch-less, powerless town, it's pretty stacked.

My power was decent, but it was only one-shot. Moratorium's was OK. Other than that, nothing. And the PDs were heavily favoring the scum. I cannot conceive of a sequence of event where the town could win this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree that its pretty frustrating when you can't guarantee anyone's lynch. However that's not what happened in this game. In this game, the town tried to send all their pro-town players to get investigations and daykills, instead of sending the scum in to die.

If you used the PD correctly, it wouldn't have favored the scum - our powers would amount to a one-shot ability to swap the answers.

Anyway, in the last PD game, we managed to kill the scum pretty well, so I think its pretty balanced.

[Moratorium]

Just felt like a mafia-run prison to me. Every night scum had manipulative powers to affect prison. Kinda defeated the purpose of the core idea of the game (the dilemma itself) to have so much peripheral stuff affecting the prison.

Anyways, I would like to see M-M's opinion on this game, what he perceived, what rules he'd change in the future (if anything), etc...

[zachattack]

Trade Empking or Freeko for ABR and this is a completely different game. We were constantly able to lead the town into killing the wrong people because certain townies were acting scummier than any of us could have if we tried.

[Moratorium]

About the 1000$ thing...

When this game is over, I promise to post a "Should there be a rule against wagering?" in the Mafiascum discussion forum.

Not going to bother with this, because hey, look at that, this rule does exist already.

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes,

wagers

, promises, alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.

[zachattack]

I agree that was ridiculous and I regret not completely dismissing it when Sly brought it up. That was the only time I got caught off guard and I didn't know how to react.