You're missing the point. Having a two scum team game more often than not relies on crosskills to come to a successful conclusion. Having an entirely bulletproof team means that BOTH of them need to be lynched in order for another team to win. Coupled with the Vig role shooting at just about anybody, Team 2 will win in most cases. This isn't a setup most people would want to play, since unless you end up on the SK team, you are more than likely going to lose.
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:42 pm
by drmyshottyizsik
they are lovers dude so only one of them will need to be lynched
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:03 pm
by bv310
I still don't like it, but that's a bit closer to the balance you need.
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:16 pm
by Andrius
Shotty, two Serial Killers with a shared kill, as mason-lovers (?!?) is just a scumteam that's compromised of lovers.
Also, PR passing will make this game a BITCH for the scum, so.
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:18 pm
by jimfinn
Andrius, it's PR passing with the lynch, but with a NK it dies. Or at least that's my understanding. I think adding one extra goon might make it viable.
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:44 pm
by Andrius
jimfinn wrote:Andrius, it's PR passing with the lynch, but with a NK it dies. Or at least that's my understanding. I think adding one extra goon might make it viable.
Sounds like a vague shade of Trader Mafia...
you mind posting the setup again with updates?
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:46 am
by drmyshottyizsik
drmyshottyizsik after he updated it wrote:ok so the town starts with 6 PR's and if the pr is lynched they can pass on their ability. If they are NK'd the ability dies.
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:52 am
by Andrius
Can PRs pass to non-townies?
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:53 am
by drmyshottyizsik
No the PR goes away if that happens. Unless you think it would work better other wise
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:56 am
by bv310
To make the game fair, it should be able to. Otherwise, a PR pass would mean confirmed townie status if they could prove it.
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:02 am
by drmyshottyizsik
but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:11 pm
by Andrius
drmyshottyizsik wrote:but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's
NO. MASSCLAIM MEANS BREAKAGE.
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:34 pm
by drmyshottyizsik
Andrius wrote:
drmyshottyizsik wrote:but they couldnt really could they?
and confirmed town would make it ballanced because of the 3 nk's
NO. MASSCLAIM MEANS BREAKAGE.
oh ok, so ya scum can get the pr
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:24 am
by hitogoroshi
I posted this idea a long time ago, and I had a flash of inspiration for a few changes, so I'm gonna bring it back and see what you guys think.
Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia
You cannot no-lynch or no-kill in Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia.
2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker
1 Town Tracker
1 Sydney Carton
1 One-Shot Impatient Vigilante
7 Townies
So that's the game. Because you cannot no-lynch or no-kill, the town can have three mislynches but loses on the fourth mislynch. Curious what you guys think. At the moment, if you think one faction is slightly stronger than the other, there are some fairly easy changes that could be implemented:
If mafia is too strong: make tracker a watcher, turn lengthy roleblocker into a normal roleblocker (remember both impatient vig and carton can guaranteed confirm themselves with no dayblocker, unless carton thinks current person strung up is scum.)
if town is too strong: sydney carton ability use is hidden until day end, remove -lynch threshold on impatient vig, remove a VT (which would let scum win on the third townie mislynch)
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 am
by gandalf5166
The tracker seems a bit much. There are no town night actions, so he's only a TINY bit less powerful than a cop. One question though: can the roleblocker both roleblock and kill the same night?
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:11 am
by Antihero
I would ditch the sydney carton role. I would also add a vigilante and a some kind of protective role (roleblocker or doc).
EDIT: I disagree with gandalf. Unless there's only 1 scum left, a tracker is WAY harder than a cop (because in order to get a good result, the tracker has to guess not only who's scum, but which scum is doing the kill).
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:37 am
by gandalf5166
Well, if the roleblocker can't kill and roleblock same night, then only one scum didn't do the kill. The point is, if he gets a result at all, he gets a guilty.
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:14 pm
by Herodotus
Looks to me like the setup favors the scum, though they don't have room to fakeclaim.
The carton should almost never use their ability, right? Only if it would prove their claim if scum counterclaim. And even then, the previous day's lynchee gets out of being lynched until at least the following day. It seems this role combines the badness of a governor and the badness of a self-targeting-only vig.
@Gandalf: yes, any non-null result is a guilty, but the tracker only has a 1 in 3 chance of choosing the killer even if they track mafia, and the mafia may hold their RB until they have 1 or 2 good guesses about who is the tracker.
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:16 pm
by hitogoroshi
One question though: can the roleblocker both roleblock and kill the same night?
Nope.
The carton should almost never use their ability, right? Only if it would prove their claim if scum counterclaim. And even then, the previous day's lynchee gets out of being lynched until at least the following day. It seems this role combines the badness of a governor and the badness of a self-targeting-only vig.
It's there for when the Carton believes that the target has been mistakenly lynched. I'm going off the idea that it can be fairly obvious in the course of a game day that the person currently slated to die is actually a townie. I suppose, though, that a Carton who makes a poor judgment call can ruin the game by un-lynching scum. Putting the entire game in the hands of one judgment call is a bit un-fun, even if (as I feel) it's not a terrible difficult judgment call.
I like the idea of possible salvation because it helps give incentive for the dead player to still play their hardest, but the game being lost because a good scum fooled Carton does seem iffy. Let's try switching it up a bit.
Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia (First Revision)
You cannot no-lynch or no-kill in Slow Rusty Guillotine Mafia.
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker
1 Town Tracker
1 Sydney Carton
1 Charles Darnay
1 One-Shot Impatient Vigilante
6 Townies
There are the changes. Town is more powerful because there's a mason-pair replacing weird, unhelpful Carton. Scum are more powerful because they get a tracker as well, and because the tracker now has half odds of detecting either town or scum(one roleblocking, one killing). Makes it so the Carton's ability is automatic, and while it's less likely to trigger you're 100% sure you're being an awesome hero when you do it.
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:33 am
by drmyshottyizsik
At this point man you need to get rid of a towny and run this as a mini theme(semi-open)
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:36 pm
by Herodotus
hitogoroshi wrote:It's there for when the Carton believes that the target has been mistakenly lynched. I'm going off the idea that it can be fairly obvious in the course of a game day that the person currently slated to die is actually a townie. I suppose, though, that a Carton who makes a poor judgment call can ruin the game by un-lynching scum. Putting the entire game in the hands of one judgment call is a bit un-fun, even if (as I feel) it's not a terrible difficult judgment call.
I disagree that there are such situations. I can think of some exceptions, like role-based information, but a lynchee who acts town is just trying to escape the guillotine for all the town knows.
I approve of the change.
hitogoroshi wrote:There are the changes. Town is more powerful because there's a mason-pair replacing weird, unhelpful Carton. Scum are more powerful because they get a tracker as well, and because
the tracker now has half odds of detecting either town or scum
(one roleblocking, one killing). Makes it so the Carton's ability is automatic, and while it's less likely to trigger you're 100% sure you're being an awesome hero when you do it.
No; as you posted it, if the tracker gets any result that says "your target visited _____", that means they must have tracked scum, because only the scum and the tracker have night actions.
Observation: If n scum and n+1 townies are alive, the scum have already won. Even if mafia is lynched, they will control half the votes on the following day, unless the vig can save the town - which they can only do once. So I think the town can only afford 2 mislynches before they lose.
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:38 pm
by drmyshottyizsik
also a Mass Claim will destroy it if it's run open
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:46 pm
by Herodotus
drmyshottyizsik wrote:also a Mass Claim will destroy it if it's run open
I disagree.
But for balance and for playtesting purposes, I would suggest simplifying things by making it 2 mafia, maybe have the vig be the only town PR, and maybe give them two, or unlimited, shots.
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:46 pm
by drmyshottyizsik
they could always play pass the miller ability
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:39 am
by Twomz
Desert Island Mafia
Shirley Temple - Innocent Child (cannot be mafia or miller)
Sherlock Holmes - Cop
Columbo - Cop
Jack Sparrow - Roleblocker
Marilyn Monroe - Roleblocker
Conspiracy Nut - Miller, all who target him become miller's as well (retain's abilities)
George Carlin - Miller, if targeted by someone who is a miller, shows as innocent
Theodore Roosevelt - Bulletproof
Dio - Bulletproof
Roles will be assigned at random, then alignments will be assigned (2 mafia, 1 Sk, 6 town).