Medieval Mafia - Game Over

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch

Rogueben: 5 (Korejora, Xylthixlm, DrippingGoofball, populartajo, farside22)
stark: 2 (Rogueben, Xylthixlm)
camn: 2 (sam.samhorn, Yosarian2)

Not Voting: 5 (hasdgfas, stark, scotmany12, camn, Tarhalindur)

[Xylthixlm]

Now that I think about it, is there any reason why we should peg camn as town?

Not really.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ YOS, Xyl, and poptartajo

Your complete thoughts on the below, please.

God I am thrilled that KMD flipped scum!

Anyway.. I am sorry I have been a little out of it lately.
Finals + preparing for Mexico = spacey camn.

To that end.. As you know, I love attention, and I am ready for you people to bring your cases against me... but I am TOTALLY GOING ON VACATION SOON!

So sharpen your cases... get them ready, and bring them out when I get back.

That said, I don't leave until Monday night... so I have a little time.

Now.. Re: Mutual random voting, TAR....
The history of me and KMD is pretty well-trodden.
--He attacked me without mercy one game. He was wrong. I was right. (tranquility)
--The next game, I was scum.. I nightkilled him immediately. I hold a grudge. (night watch)
My first post that game?

um.....

Vote OBAMA

!!!


@KMD
Your Gambit is flawed.
But I suggest you try it again this game. I would like to see it.

HIS first post? (after mine)

Vote Camn

My Confirmation Gambit reveals that you are scum.

--This game, if I were scum, I would have nightkilled him again.. just for comedy! But I didn't. I am shocked he didn't nightkill me right away. It must be because of my charm.
--So you can see, there is certainly me/kmd early conflict meta... regardless of alignment.

[camn]

Ps...

I leave for the airport very soon..

Thus, you can defame me without the benefit of my defense for more than a week.
I will try to keep up on my Ipod.. but I can hardly type on that thing... so don't expect much.

c

[Yosarian2]

@ YOS, Xyl, and poptartajo

Your complete thoughts on the below, please.

God I am thrilled that KMD flipped scum!

Anyway.. I am sorry I have been a little out of it lately.
Finals + preparing for Mexico = spacey camn.

To that end.. As you know, I love attention, and I am ready for you people to bring your cases against me... but I am TOTALLY GOING ON VACATION SOON!

So sharpen your cases... get them ready, and bring them out when I get back.

That said, I don't leave until Monday night... so I have a little time.

Now.. Re: Mutual random voting, TAR....
The history of me and KMD is pretty well-trodden.
--He attacked me without mercy one game. He was wrong. I was right. (tranquility)
--The next game, I was scum.. I nightkilled him immediately. I hold a grudge. (night watch)
My first post that game?

um.....

Vote OBAMA

!!!


@KMD
Your Gambit is flawed.
But I suggest you try it again this game. I would like to see it.

HIS first post? (after mine)

Vote Camn

My Confirmation Gambit reveals that you are scum.

--This game, if I were scum, I would have nightkilled him again.. just for comedy! But I didn't. I am shocked he didn't nightkill me right away. It must be because of my charm.
--So you can see, there is certainly me/kmd early conflict meta... regardless of alignment.

I already pointed out that the first line of that post was scummy.

As for the rest of it; meh. She kidded around with KMD early in the game. That would be a somewhat gutsy move if they're both scum, but I've seen scum do it, especally if it's a situation where that would also do it as town.

[Tarhalindur]

OK. Lets get serious.

Here is my PBPA with an ear as to TODAY's gameplan.
We have too many people who aren't really into the game. If you are reading this.. just start typing. I don't care if you catch up. Just jump on a wagon and go with it. PLEASE!!

Other that that, I have very few suspects, and no solid ones.
Pop reads scummy to me, but I don't have a case.
I wanted to hate Cow, but I found that he is simply irrelevant.
Scot could be scum. KMD could be, too, and I am overlooking it.

And, All lurkers must die.

CAMN'S OPINIONS:

Caboose

:
Soft claimed PR. This = bad D1 lynch, great lynch later on... If.

camn

: Obvtown

CounselWolf

:
Is lurker. Must die. Oh wait.. Is

Korejora

... best replacement ever.

crywolf20084

:
Is hardly playing.. please rectify or die.

DrippingGoofball

:
Was correct about zwet not being a vig... scum, or insightful?
Def should live through today.

farside22

:
Stupid Vacation. Hurry home. Wait.. you should be back by now.

hasdgfas:

Gosh.. I read you WANTING you to be REALLY scummy.. but you aren't that bad. You are incredibly WRONG about a lot of things.. but not everything. Neutral on you. But I would lynch you because you are so wrong on everything. You could easily be scum who's buddies are furious with you for sucking.

Incognito:

Totally Lurking. Must die.

Jebus:

Um. Its not a "burst". Its called DAY ONE. Dork.

Kmd4390

:
I am biased on KMD. We were town together.. then he was town and I nightkilled him night one for revenge... now I hope to play a couple days with him. So I can't be trusted. He seems as townie as ever. I would like to see him live a couple days.

OhGodMyLife

:
Talk about repetitive posts. Jeez.

populartajo

:
I thought you were on V/LA till thursday.. but you have posted MOST of your wordcount since you left! You should go on vaca more often.
Pop reads like scum to me. He is posing enough, but without much meaning.
Stays away from the zwet wagon.. stays away from the lurker-battle despite being #2 on the Jebus wagon... then mildly goes after the Cow once it becomes cool. Which = scum.

qwints

:
Totally useless. Convince us you are worth having around, please.

sam.samhorn

:
You haven't posted much, and some of what you say is suspect... but you aren't afraid to have an opinion. That earns you townie points to me.

scotmany12

:
You have an irrational fixation on Jebus. If you don't totally start letting us in on your secret scumhunting, then you deserve to hang. Post 507 is pretty indicative. It is all about Jebus, isn't it?

stark

:
Come play mafia with us? Please? You did sign up!

Thestatusquo

:
Scummy at times.. but worth keeping around until tonight. Totally worth it. At least he is playing.

Xylthixlm

:
I guess I am a little biased, but I think obvtown. Or obvscum-who-loves-killing-lurkers. Either way . . a terrible lynch for today.

Yosarian2

:
You aren't going to find me advocating a D1 lynch of a legend. Plus I see no scum here. Not today at least.

zwetschenwasser

:
R.I.P.

So.. I haven't played with most of you.
I play a little backwards.. so bear with me.
here are some thoughts of mine.
During THIS read I mostly ignored the first few pages of nonsense...... then got totally lost in your strategy-discussion.
For the record, I am PRO hypoclaim. I just lost (as scum) to a town who hypoclaimed a Hider. It was a good play.
However.. I couldn't be bothered to figure out all your rules.... so someone please explain. Who should I target? Actually, check that -- RYAN please explain, concisely, what I need to do in regards to the hypoclaim.. and when. Thank you.

----------------
MY RUNDOWN:

* BSG - 7 posts in 16 days? Not impressive.
In fact, generally not impressive. Probably scum.
HOWEVER, this is very, very true:

Also, can anyone please explain to me why so many players are announcing who they see as town? I really don't see the point in that.

I am generally against ID'ing people as town.. though in this rundown I will... since I replaced in.

* popsofctown - Seems levelheaded... which is refreshing around here. I like his style. Though not knowing IIOA is scary.

* Netlava - nothing notable. Seems like typical D1 play.

* GIEFF - Wow. This guy is some sort of internet superstar. If he is scum, we are all screwed.. so I am hoping town. Plus I really agree with the style here. People need to answer straight questions, or the entire game is pointless.

* EsoMonty - answers questions, which is so far so good. I think pretty good. Don't think being new is any kind of excuse for anything though.

* Gamma - Wow. His FIRST 10 posts are almost entirely worthless. I think he got popped initially for poor play, and could EASILY be scum.. but I am unsure if he INITIALLY was scummy. However.. his incredibly evasive answers and lack of coherent defense WAS and IS actually scummy. SO .. probscum.

* Xtoxm - NO read.. but I think BadGuy was generally cooperative with questioning.. plus I liked his stance on Gamma. probtown

* camn - Um... obvtown! Smile

* roflcopter - So.. I think hypoclaiming is almost a gamebreaker... and it looks like this guy was the first to bring it up... so obvtown.

* Korts - I was not confused about what Popsofclaown was saying in post 189.... Korts jumping on him for that was a little weird, but I guess it reads as a bona fide misunderstanding. Plus... I like everything else. No foul.

* Empking - no real read. nothing jumps out from magisterrain either.

* ryan2754 - At first I couldn't see the case on him. In fact, I still can't. But then I saw his last post, and I got annoyed.

Wow this game has grown a little stagnant as of late. Not many new posts to go through. Then again, it looks like we are waiting on eso or Gieff to do the hypo claiming.

He has 11 posts during the course of this game. None of which are particularly interesting. His post BEFORE this one was 5 days before! So maybe it is HIM making the thread 'stagnant'. I hate posts like that. So my vision is cloudy, but that strikes me as the scummiest post of the game.
"well.. nothing going on here! Guess I don't have to do anything!"

Grr.

--------------------

So... Thats it. Please let me know if I need to address any outstanding questions....and be advised.. I was in a hurry when I wrote this.. so I might have missed some details.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: Oops, wrong button (meant to press Preview).

I was looking over those to see how similar they were.

Conclusions coming in a bit.

[Xylthixlm]

For reference, camn's scumbuddies in that game were GIEFF and BSG.

[DrippingGoofball]

For reference, camn's scumbuddies in that game were GIEFF and BSG.

Read it... I must humbly admit to being stumped.

[camn]

Gosh you guys.. I DO love attention. DGB is right. but you should know...

a) My meta is like a cloud. Always changing.

b) I go on vacation in 3 hours.

c) I REALLY want to be here for this discussion! Please save it till I get back!!!!!

d) we won that game I like winning. But I hate lurkers.. as is plainly shown.

[Yosarian2]

Stark: I've been giving you a LOT of rope here, more then I would most people probably, but we really need to hear more from you here. You said you think Camm is scum; why? Who else do you think looks scummy? Who do you think looks pro-town?

[Xylthixlm]

stark knows he's going to die tonight, and he's afraid of saying anything that will link him to his scumbuddies.

[DrippingGoofball]

stark knows he's going to die tonight, and he's afraid of saying anything that will link him to his scumbuddies.

That is becoming cleared by the minute.

[DrippingGoofball]

I already pointed out that the first line of that post was scummy.

As for the rest of it; meh. She kidded around with KMD early in the game. That would be a somewhat gutsy move if they're both scum, but I've seen scum do it, especally if it's a situation where that would also do it as town.

Do you recall how, early in the game, I called the KMD/camn interaction out as obvbus?

I'd forgotten about it, but it seemed to have made an impression on camn's mind.

As soon as Kmd flips scum, quickly, she brings up that old stuff again, almost as if she's reading the writing on the wall, and awkwardly tries to beat us to the punch. She's usually quite flippant and brazen, but in that post, she appears to have lost that sure footing of hers, and feels a little nervous.

Do you get vibes of that nature? If not, how do the vibes you get differ from mine? Please, no sitting on the fence answers.

[DrippingGoofball]

stark knows he's going to die tonight, and he's afraid of saying anything that will link him to his scumbuddies.

He often shows up when his name is brought up. Otherwise, he hides like a coward.

[DrippingGoofball]

And I'd like to point out that I just spotted him on the list of viewers for this forum, and he has declined to bless us with a post.

[camn]

I'll lay a vote on him before I go... just so I am on the record...

Vote Stark

Because you are useless....

And DGB.. I am still brazen!
See you next week, suckers!

[Tarhalindur]

OK. Lets get serious.

Here is my PBPA with an ear as to TODAY's gameplan.
We have too many people who aren't really into the game. If you are reading this.. just start typing. I don't care if you catch up. Just jump on a wagon and go with it. PLEASE!!

Other that that, I have very few suspects, and no solid ones.
Pop reads scummy to me, but I don't have a case.
I wanted to hate Cow, but I found that he is simply irrelevant.
Scot could be scum. KMD could be, too, and I am overlooking it.

And, All lurkers must die.

CAMN'S OPINIONS:

Caboose

:
Soft claimed PR. This = bad D1 lynch, great lynch later on... If.

camn

: Obvtown

CounselWolf

:
Is lurker. Must die. Oh wait.. Is

Korejora

... best replacement ever.

crywolf20084

:
Is hardly playing.. please rectify or die.

DrippingGoofball

:
Was correct about zwet not being a vig... scum, or insightful?
Def should live through today.

farside22

:
Stupid Vacation. Hurry home. Wait.. you should be back by now.

hasdgfas:

Gosh.. I read you WANTING you to be REALLY scummy.. but you aren't that bad. You are incredibly WRONG about a lot of things.. but not everything. Neutral on you. But I would lynch you because you are so wrong on everything. You could easily be scum who's buddies are furious with you for sucking.

Incognito:

Totally Lurking. Must die.

Jebus:

Um. Its not a "burst". Its called DAY ONE. Dork.

Kmd4390

:
I am biased on KMD. We were town together.. then he was town and I nightkilled him night one for revenge... now I hope to play a couple days with him. So I can't be trusted. He seems as townie as ever. I would like to see him live a couple days.

OhGodMyLife

:
Talk about repetitive posts. Jeez.

populartajo

:
I thought you were on V/LA till thursday.. but you have posted MOST of your wordcount since you left! You should go on vaca more often.
Pop reads like scum to me. He is posing enough, but without much meaning.
Stays away from the zwet wagon.. stays away from the lurker-battle despite being #2 on the Jebus wagon... then mildly goes after the Cow once it becomes cool. Which = scum.

qwints

:
Totally useless. Convince us you are worth having around, please.

sam.samhorn

:
You haven't posted much, and some of what you say is suspect... but you aren't afraid to have an opinion. That earns you townie points to me.

scotmany12

:
You have an irrational fixation on Jebus. If you don't totally start letting us in on your secret scumhunting, then you deserve to hang. Post 507 is pretty indicative. It is all about Jebus, isn't it?

stark

:
Come play mafia with us? Please? You did sign up!

Thestatusquo

:
Scummy at times.. but worth keeping around until tonight. Totally worth it. At least he is playing.

Xylthixlm

:
I guess I am a little biased, but I think obvtown. Or obvscum-who-loves-killing-lurkers. Either way . . a terrible lynch for today.

Yosarian2

:
You aren't going to find me advocating a D1 lynch of a legend. Plus I see no scum here. Not today at least.

zwetschenwasser

:
R.I.P.

So.. I haven't played with most of you.
I play a little backwards.. so bear with me.
here are some thoughts of mine.
During THIS read I mostly ignored the first few pages of nonsense...... then got totally lost in your strategy-discussion.
For the record, I am PRO hypoclaim. I just lost (as scum) to a town who hypoclaimed a Hider. It was a good play.
However.. I couldn't be bothered to figure out all your rules.... so someone please explain. Who should I target? Actually, check that -- RYAN please explain, concisely, what I need to do in regards to the hypoclaim.. and when. Thank you.

----------------
MY RUNDOWN:

* BSG - 7 posts in 16 days? Not impressive.
In fact, generally not impressive. Probably scum.
HOWEVER, this is very, very true:

Also, can anyone please explain to me why so many players are announcing who they see as town? I really don't see the point in that.

I am generally against ID'ing people as town.. though in this rundown I will... since I replaced in.

* popsofctown - Seems levelheaded... which is refreshing around here. I like his style. Though not knowing IIOA is scary.

* Netlava - nothing notable. Seems like typical D1 play.

* GIEFF - Wow. This guy is some sort of internet superstar. If he is scum, we are all screwed.. so I am hoping town. Plus I really agree with the style here. People need to answer straight questions, or the entire game is pointless.

* EsoMonty - answers questions, which is so far so good. I think pretty good. Don't think being new is any kind of excuse for anything though.

* Gamma - Wow. His FIRST 10 posts are almost entirely worthless. I think he got popped initially for poor play, and could EASILY be scum.. but I am unsure if he INITIALLY was scummy. However.. his incredibly evasive answers and lack of coherent defense WAS and IS actually scummy. SO .. probscum.

* Xtoxm - NO read.. but I think BadGuy was generally cooperative with questioning.. plus I liked his stance on Gamma. probtown

* camn - Um... obvtown! Smile

* roflcopter - So.. I think hypoclaiming is almost a gamebreaker... and it looks like this guy was the first to bring it up... so obvtown.

* Korts - I was not confused about what Popsofclaown was saying in post 189.... Korts jumping on him for that was a little weird, but I guess it reads as a bona fide misunderstanding. Plus... I like everything else. No foul.

* Empking - no real read. nothing jumps out from magisterrain either.

* ryan2754 - At first I couldn't see the case on him. In fact, I still can't. But then I saw his last post, and I got annoyed.

Wow this game has grown a little stagnant as of late. Not many new posts to go through. Then again, it looks like we are waiting on eso or Gieff to do the hypo claiming.

He has 11 posts during the course of this game. None of which are particularly interesting. His post BEFORE this one was 5 days before! So maybe it is HIM making the thread 'stagnant'. I hate posts like that. So my vision is cloudy, but that strikes me as the scummiest post of the game.
"well.. nothing going on here! Guess I don't have to do anything!"

Grr.

--------------------

So... Thats it. Please let me know if I need to address any outstanding questions....and be advised.. I was in a hurry when I wrote this.. so I might have missed some details.

Looking over these two...

- The tone is somewhat different between camn's post here and camn's scum PBPA in 103, but not different enough to conclude wholeheartedly that camn's alignment is different here. Indeed, what the opinions post from this game really reminds me of is this post, by Vi in Mafia 87:

The body count in this game is massive o.0 Sorry for being slow to return; two other games have me... involved, so to speak.

I think between the Puta Puta scumflip and the three Townflips, everyone got proven wrong about someone. The question of the day is thus who got foiled more than embarrassed...

I'll play PbPA.

Vi

~ Miaow~

iamausername

~ If it hasn't yet been made obvious, you are ringing up as Weird to me just as far as your gameplay has gone. You jumped on Der Hammer early and faded out, went for al4xz early on and then made a late jump onto Puta Puta (how about I shorten that to Gimbo from now on) after initially agreeing with him and trying to continue with the al4xz lynch. That last part is what solidifies my suspicion. I like your contribution today though.

Tom Mason

~ Did not vote for either Scheherazade or Der Hammer D1 because he was catching up, which is a positive point IMO. Pushes forward with al4xz for agreeable reasons. The jump to Gimbo was somewhat on the resigned side, but I don't think I could label it scummy. Erratically signs his name to some of his posts, but not all of them (obvscumtell).

DoomCow

~ I'm torn between calling you useless or anti-Town... or both. I notice you were on the two big wagons very late, and while I would be more understanding if you said you were not around for the Gimbo fiasco you've already said that you were there, but didn't want to hammer (or more plainly, you were lurking). I have a meta on you (ongoing game), but it's not helping much. I don't see the hindsight on Juls as incredibly enlightening, personally.

Jazzmyn

~ As far as factuality goes, I think Scheherazade was a bit on the losing end in arguing with you. As far as attitude goes, I think otherwise. You did not wish to vote Gimbo for his meta in another game, it seems... which is almost a null-tell, except--

I realize that it might just be his way of trying to establish a mechanism for avoiding being lynched

when he

[Puta Puta]

is scum in other games

, of course, but for what it's worth, there it is.

THIS needs explaining.
Another quote that jumps out at me--

If I were scum, I would have voted for DerHammer somewhere around the middle of the pack and been quite happy with a town lynch, any town lynch.

There's a glaringly obvious problem with this statement. If you need a hint, look at posts 179 and 183.

ribwich

~ Is immediately barred from suspicion because he has

me

in his sig~
But seriously. At least as of now, I don't think I have anything either way on you. Leaning townside because you seemed rather reasonable about al4xz.

Gerrendus

~ I think you already have some idea of what I've to say here. You hammered Der Hammer as a policy lynch while constantly saying you believed Scheherazade was scum. You voted Scheherazade 429 on grounds of not being succinct (?!), and in 434 seem to insinuate that the thrust of your argument is the succinctness point (!?!); while in that same post hitting Scheherazade about diverting from the lynch of someone he implies deserves a lynch. This in itself is odd, because you said that you couldn't find where Scheherazade expressed suspicion of al4xz "in the mountains of posts", but we had to ask you where you ever mentioned al4xz; and reading them you don't express any strong suspicion of him at all. And at the end, you seem to argue against (or at least excuse) the Gimbo lynch. Yep, #1 suspect.

Caboose

~ As I've mentioned before, the timing of your Scheherazade vote strikes me - it seems to come after a weak point. Other than that, the only thing that strikes me is that you don't seem to have said as much as the other players (barring teh cow of doom).

ZazieR

~ Another player where the lengths of time between posts bother me. On the surface, though, I don't see a lot to comment on. I'm willing to believe that you have a meta on Gimbo, but trying to call him

confirmed

makes me wonder.

Top

Gerrendus
iamausername
Jazzmyn

Mid

DoomCow
Caboose
ZazieR

Bottom

ribwich
Tom Mason

I see Gerrendus is quickly gaining a wagon, of which I approve right now. But I'd like to hear him respond to me before I decide whether to join it.

Everyone who has not laid out suspect(s) for today yet should, frankly. Still to go: DoomCow, Cabüse, ribwich, Jazzmyn, Gerrendus (sorta), and ZazieR.

------------

Happy Innovative Interactive Response Time!

I didn't address Puta Puta's L-1 Vote (Here I mean his placing al4xz at L-1) because it didn't seem necessary. Everyone was aware that al4xz was at L-1, and no one was willing to vote for him until we could hear from him.

Do you... even care why people vote for others?
I see your defense of this later, but I don't buy it. Only paying attention to large wagons seems like a scum mindset.

I made the statement merely that we had needed to be careful. Although I doubted it, I was willing to give his mason claim the benefit of the doubt and not hammer until his alleged mason partner had time to claim as such. Had I pushed further for a lynch (which at the point he was: L-1, all I could do was vote and then hammer) I would have been denying that benefit of the doubt.

I thought you said that Gimbo could have been a sympathetic? Doesn't that counter the Mason claim? See also DoomCow's question.

Jazz was on the defensive from sche all yesterday, and had pushed for his death the previous two days. Granted I also did but she was his main target. It's possible she felt threatened, though as has been previously stated analysis based on night actions quickly and easily falls into the realm of WIFOM.

It's absolutely WIFOM. Do you have any other suspects?

it seemed more likely that Puta was a symp than a full partner, still a necesary lynch but an observation to be made. I also wasn't about to make the same mistake and be hammered for being the person to hammer twice in a row, I had checked vote counts etc this time in reaction to my mistake the previous day.

In the immortal words of JDodge--WIMP
You just said that Gimbo was a necessary lynch. Your reason for not hammering sounds like self-preservation; I at least would have been much more understanding if you had clarified that you were NOT accidentally hammering and thought you had hit scum/a necessary lynch this time (both of these would be improvements over D1).

As for me not voting Puta Puta, by the time I read her posts, she was already at L-1.

I wasn't willing to hammer after the claim.

Why? Masons aren't that big a deal tbqh, and if it were true the other Mason would have had good reason to claim ASAP - if they were even confirmed at all. If they weren't confirmed, then the claim is essentially worthless.

Why aren't you in more of my games, Vi?

You should probably be glad for it; a bunch of my games have wound up being modless train wrecks. (Praise be to Incog-Co-Mod!)
But hay, after this game we can IC together or something.

And after Night Two, coincidentally two people he put in his targets were eliminated.

Again, NK WIFOM. I wouldn't accept this as an argument against Gerrendus.

That's still a scum mass summary post, mind, even if it's from a different player...

Key things that feel off:

- Focuses on "good lynch on day so and so". I don't usually see townies talking about "good lynch on day so and so" - the closest I've seen townies play is the threat prioritizing "we'll deal with him today and you tomorrow", which is generally seen when a player thinks two different players are definitely scum. No, I usually associate "good lynch on day so and so" with scum trying to set up future mislynches ("okay, now TODAY is a good day to deal with so and so").
- Note how camn's assessment with known scum Kmd doesn't directly say he's town (it implies it, but in such a way that camn can easily back down later), instead backing away from attacking Kmd using "bad lynch today" terminology. (Also of interest - camn does much the same thing with TSQ/Rogueben, except that she's avoiding doing anything with an implied scum read instead of an implied town read. It's a null tell at best, and looks rather like her "read" on scumbuddy BSG in the 103 post.)
- Inconsistent with later play (note her lack of hatred for lurkers Stark and TSQ).
- Flippant tone - see especially the comments on CounselWolf, OGML, Incognito (speaking of that, including the Mod and Backup Mod in a summary of *players* is ITSELF rather flippant, let alone what she says), and Jebus, though others caught my attention to a lesser degree. That's a tone I generally associate with scum trying to defuse possible antagonism (trying to veil their attacks to soften possible blowback from those attacks).
- IIoA? Not sure here, since there's one form of the tell outside of more conventional active lurking that I've had severe trouble defining (best I can offer is that it's a form of analysis that seems to be substantative but really isn't). I suspect that Camn's opinions here are an example of that tell, and that despite the words themselves appearing to contain content there actually isn't anything here. I can't prove it, however, since I can't figure out exactly WHY these words give me that impression.
- Intuition/gut read. Every so often, I get a "their posts look town but I get this nagging feeling that they are actually scum" vibe from a player's posts (or vice versa). I'm finding that the intuition is actually more reliable than the logical read - reliable enough that I've considered using some game (probably a Mini Normal) where I'm town to experiment by not building cases at all and just relying on my intuition. The gut intuition wound up giving me the correct read on Vi and Jazzmyn in Mafia 87 (though it took a while to catch up on Jazzmyn); it was pinging Kmd during my initial read here, but nowhere near as much as it was pinging camn.

I'm leaning strongly towards camn being scum here. Since I rather doubt that I'll convince the masons to deal with her tonight (I know there's one mason who seems absolutely supportive of camn, I'll have to see what the fencesitter thinks), if we want to get rid of her without worrying about mason politics we'll need to rely on either the lynch or the daykiller.

She'll wait, of course, since Rogueben needs to claim as a matter of policy. But she's near the top of my scum list right now.

[Yosarian2]

I already pointed out that the first line of that post was scummy.

As for the rest of it; meh. She kidded around with KMD early in the game. That would be a somewhat gutsy move if they're both scum, but I've seen scum do it, especally if it's a situation where that would also do it as town.

Do you recall how, early in the game, I called the KMD/camn interaction out as obvbus?

I'd forgotten about it, but it seemed to have made an impression on camn's mind.

As soon as Kmd flips scum, quickly, she brings up that old stuff again, almost as if she's reading the writing on the wall, and awkwardly tries to beat us to the punch. She's usually quite flippant and brazen, but in that post, she appears to have lost that sure footing of hers, and feels a little nervous.

Do you get vibes of that nature? If not, how do the vibes you get differ from mine? Please, no sitting on the fence answers.

Ok. I didn't really think that the origional stuff looked bad, just the normal kind of early game joking around that dosn't mean much.

However, you are right that it was over-defensive of her, and a very fast response; now that I think about it, it looks kind of like she already had a defense ready to go against the "kmd is linked to camm" thing you flung at her earlier, which would imply that she already knew he was going to come up scum.

[stark]

Stark: I've been giving you a LOT of rope here, more then I would most people probably, but we really need to hear more from you here. You said you think Camm is scum; why? Who else do you think looks scummy? Who do you think looks pro-town?

I know I disappoint the ladies, but for you, Yos, my devotion is unfailing.
It's a nice night, I have a grapefruit, so I'll do an analysis.

I started by looking at camn's posts, but it was too intense, so I'm going to look at KMD's relationship to camn.

Vote Camn

Seriously, she's scum.

KMD would be the expert.

I've seen that Camn likes to go after lurkers as town. The game we played together, she kept screaming, "Lurker scum team!". And she actually ended up being probably the only person in the game who was right about the scum. But yeah, she does go after lurkers as town.

Making excuses for camn’s behavior.

Scot calling camn scum for going after lurkers is interesting.

Not quite chainsaw. Hedgeclippers?

The DGB calls camn "unbelievably town". I don't see where you are getting this from. Sure, she doesn't look too scummy right now. But unbelievably town? Why?

You can draw your own conclusion from that, but to me that’s at least +3 scum points
NOTE: I didn’t bother to quote them, but the whole few first pages were filled with banter between KMD and camn. It is my opinion that this was for the purpose of mutual town-appearance building.

Well... Camn says she's biased on me and I think I feel the same with her. I see her massively buddying up to Yos with the "legend" comment, but one of my points against her in Tranquility was buddying up to Rishi early in the game. Remember that she was town... I don't even know what tells to look for with her because I was so wrong on her in the other game. =/

ATTACK POWER: ½ Assed. This is coming after KMD gave the whole thing near the beginning of the game (I don’t remember if I quoted it here) about camn’s playstyle.

Sam, why is Camn your new number two suspect?

More camn defense

camn wrote:
Now.. we see the 2 people on the qwints wagon. I assume at LEAST scum got on that wagon..... so one of those 2 = scum.
Then I notice that Yosarian is on 3 townie-wagons. I ask myself.. would THE Yosarian2 allow himself to be on 3 townie wagons in one day? For now, no.

Using that logic, to me, Yos has to be scum. I'm not going to say, "Hey, Yos voted for Qwints. He's scum.", but it's a place to look. And just because he is "THE Yosarian2" doesn't mean he gets away with everything. If Yos is scum, I wouldn't be shocked to see you as a partner.

Bussing.

So if scum is on Stark's wagon, it's DGB, Tajo, and/or camn. Tajo and camn were on 2 of the 4 previously mentioned wagons. Good to know. If Stark is town, I'm going to look at both players more closely.

Moar Bussing

Why are Tajo and camn town? Why isn't Cow?

Bus3
Damn, I just choked on my grapefruit. It’s obviously a sign I’m on the right path.

camn wrote:

PS.. a side note to KMD... when I say yankees suck or redsocks suck.. I don't mean "suck" as in "bad at baseball" I mean "suck" as in "ruining baseball". I also mean "suck" as in "I hate you."


LOL!!! Ruining baseball how? Being too successful? That's OMGUS and you know it!

Oh, and you didn't think I forgot the scum list, did you?

Basically confirmed:
Cow
Xyl
Kmd

Town Read:
DGB
Rogue

Slightly Scummy to Nuetral (scummiest on bottom):
sam
Tar
farside
Stark
Scot
Kore

Scummiest:
Yosarian2
camn
populartajo

Vote Tajo

This post has two notable points.

1. The baseball banter between KMD and camn is obnoxious at best, incriminating at worst. I think the establishment of this little feud is meant to disguise their underlying relationship of scumbuddies.
2. More bussing. It should be noted though, that despite all of the accusations, no votes, or pushes for others to votes occurred

Incidentally, I just got hiccups as well. This and choking on a grapefruit (which I have never done in my life) are obviously signs that camn is employing witchcraft to hamper my analysis

Rogue wrote:
What puts camn in your absolutely scumlist KMD. I'd like a full case against him as I'm not seeing it whatsoever.


I'll do a full case before I got V/LA (see sig). 1592 is the most I have right now.

This was done in KMD’s 128th post (kinda. Another half-assed attack to no results). It’s too long to quote, but it should definitely be checked out.

Your "reasoning" on camn fails.

Moving up to bushwacker

KMD continued to bus in his 143rd post. Notable is his lack of a vote after compiling this “case”



If this compilation is not sufficient, I can sit down and do a camn to KMD, but for now, I think this is fine.

Vote: camn

And I'd like to point out that I just spotted him on the list of viewers for this forum, and he has declined to bless us with a post.

Impatience again!

[DrippingGoofball]

I really dig the post above.

[Xylthixlm]

Every so often, I get a "their posts look town but I get this nagging feeling that they are actually scum" vibe from a player's posts (or vice versa). I'm finding that the intuition is actually more reliable than the logical read - reliable enough that I've considered using some game (probably a Mini Normal) where I'm town to experiment by not building cases at all and just relying on my intuition.

I do this every game. It annoys some people to no end, particularly when they're scum and have nothing to defend against...

Don't do this. Being nearly confirmed doesn't mean sit back and let everyone guess.

[DrippingGoofball]

One of camn and Yosarian is scum. Maybe I was wrong earlier, and the scum is camn.

Hey stark - your thoughts on TSQ/Rogueben, in light of Kmd's obituary?

What about kmd's interaction with YOU? Any insight?

[stark]

One of camn and Yosarian is scum. Maybe I was wrong earlier, and the scum is camn.

Hey stark - your thoughts on TSQ/Rogueben, in light of Kmd's obituary?

What about kmd's interaction with YOU? Any insight?

I'll have to re-read for tsq/rogueben, but I remember it sticking out to me.

KMD defended me a lot, but most of it was on my joke thing. I think that was probably policy defense.

[DrippingGoofball]

Very much looking forward to your TSQ/Rogueben and Kmd interactions.

What's a policy defense? And why would you bother with it if you're scum?