Mafiascum.net

Guys, when did this stupid change in site meta happen that VCA is so sacred? What the hell is the merit of posting some random votecounts, colouring the names, and leaving it at that? It's just fucking stupid and you shouldn't waste your time doing it. We didn't waste our time doing this back in 2008, and nothing has changed so dramatically that it's now necessary. Nobody looks at it anyway above a quick skim. It is not saying anything. It isn't scumhunting. It does absolutely nothing other than making you look 'protown'.

The only instance in which you should do it, is when you are prepared to actually your data with statements such as 'x was scum because of their position on wagon y on day z'. Not if you are just going to dump your data here, like Spyrex did (oh how he has fallen ! he is such a sub-par player nowadays while he used to be so good ! ).

I reread day 1, and the Tierce push on JacobSavage looks genuine. The triple request of a claim (per PV case) is a slight concern, but definitely not enough to remove the town points for forcing the scum rolecop to claim day 1.
.
However, i'm concerned about something. Sho and me have been reasonably widespread townreads, with a strong town read on each other. We have been "reasonably" active. We are day 5, and neither of us are dead. This does not compute.

So I tried to look a bit at the opinions of the dead people, especially regarding Tierce.
- chamber died n1, and he was really pushing Tierce-scum
- TIP died n2, and he was pushing ABR. He questionned Tierce towards the end of the day, and seemed to have kept the case "for later".
- MafiaSSK died n3. Guess who he was voting towards the end of his life : Tierce.
- Death of ABR is pretty neutral given he was confirmed town, and didn't do anything else than votehop on every single wagon.

So yeah. Three dead people, 3 people suspecting Tierce. Two reasonably high NK targets (shos and me), and one thing in common: never attacked Tierce during the first 3 days.

ABR read tierce town, by the way.

But still not a good argument not to vote tierce.

I mean guys, if we wuld vote Esp I would vote that over tierce. But aside from esp tierce is the best lynch today.

In post 1924, sirdanilot wrote:That seems a tad bit too fast, doesn't it pere? We're gonna have a hard time getting her lynched in the first place.

It depends. The day is half gone, and we have half the needed votes. If we need to wait until deadline, then I expect to see some work product from everyone.

no, you *should* take it slow. there's no need to rush. I like PV's posting; and I'm gonna be halfassed about tierce because gut says she's town, and because I really don't know how sirdan is still alive. of course if we're anywhere near DL I'll be voting tierce.

meanwhile I want to ISO shadow and JS and seearch there.

Good town reads:
PV
Elscouta

scumreads:
tierce,
ActionDan,

omgwhythisstillalive:
sirdan

????:
spyrex
esp

if anyone's not on the list - add him to the scum pile for lurkfest out of my memory

~~~

post 380 makes me think esp is town. post 389(same page) makes me think sirdan is scum.

also see post 571 for more reasons for esp town

In post 1771, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:You don't know anything about whether Jacob targetted ABR last Night then?

I'm not even sure it matters that much given Jacob just claimed to have targetted ActionDan N3 when he said just last page that his actions N2 and N3 had been the obvious one.

Vote: Jacob

Desperado is still a good bet for scum for dropping his Shadowehread so discretely and then never showing any interest in that angle (nor having anything except the most generic possible excuse to justify it).

scrap that CES is town
VOTE: Tierce
L-1

Yay !

Okay tell me on what earth would a not-shitty pro-town player not have seen at that point that Shadow was obvscum.

I don't buy it. Also she is lurking, trying to avoid my accusation.

So, literally every person in this game except for PV then is shitty and not pro-town.

Including yourself at day end.

Just want to be sure thats clear.

If this goes through and is town, I want to be very clear that I am going to enjoy when the inevitable powerlynch on Esp happens at lylo.

Just so we're all aware.

In post 1889, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 1863, Tierce wrote:

In post 1861, shos wrote:That is still odd; the doc is weak, why dedicate an entire role for that?

Why dedicate an entire role for a Cop--oh, wait.

Weak Doctor balances like a Cop, not like a Doctor.
Something else that came to mind, if Shieldrender is indeed Strongman--they could Jail someone and kill them. Roleblock + Kill OP.

shos, saying something scum also did is not a scumtell--their job is to look Town. And PV's posts are not coming from a Town player who actually read my ISO when he says that I ignored JacobSavage, so...?

Actually, after his claim, you had NO interaction with him. Period.

You bring hiim up here:

In post 1150, Tierce wrote:

In post 1140, Majiffy wrote:Oh and JS please explain more about the specifics of your bodyguard claim when you get the chance.

i.e. are there conditionals (% chance of success, % chance of killing killer, etc)

What the hell are you doing?

Why the heck would you, as Town, want him to claim this?

It's pretty obvious. If JacobSavage is scum and is ever tracked anywhere but the person he claims to protect, he's dead. If he's rolecopped and shown to be lying, he's dead. NONE of this nonsense you're asking would ever help Town.

Then he votes you here:

In post 1394, JacobSavage wrote:VOTE: Tierce

And you defend him here:

In post 1398, Tierce wrote:

In post 1389, Majiffy wrote:VOTE: JS

This is a terrible vote. You're moving from a wagon with no momentum to another wagon with no momentum, and not making an ounce of effort to push it. If you're not voting your Townreads, then push your nullreads already.

But when you vote Shadow:

In post 1463, Tierce wrote: UNVOTE: Albert B. Rampage
VOTE: Shadoweh

Jacob follows:

In post 1476, JacobSavage wrote:VOTE: Shadoweh

Then you agree with SpryeX:

In post 1573, Tierce wrote:Regarding Jacob, I agree. I was thinking yesterday that one of {ABR, Jacob} had to be scum, but SSK flipping tracker pretty clearly means that one extra protection that doesn't alter the lynch threshold + Aegor's role makes sense as Town in a game that starts at evens, while ABR being fakeclaiming scum slots in nicely with the silly amount of investigative roles.

200 posts later, Jacob flips scum.

This is ridiculous. No, I didn't care about Jacob after he claimed, because he claimed Bodyguard. I was pushing CES and ABR, so too bad so sad if that's not enough for you that I kept Jacob's claim in mind while analyzing things. You're being disingenuous and taking things out of context to suit you. Majiffy votes Jacob near deadline, with no intent to compromise or actually push him, and I called him out on that. And I voted Shadoweh because I found Majiffy's crumb and everyone followed. Jacob's bussing of Shadoweh is not my problem.

ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit.


I am thrilled with sirdanilot's descriptions of my Town play. He has managed to praise it far more than I ever will, never knew I was a goddess at this game. Thank you!

In post 1926, Elscouta wrote:I reread day 1, and the Tierce push on JacobSavage looks genuine. The triple request of a claim (per PV case) is a slight concern, but definitely not enough to remove the town points for forcing the scum rolecop to claim day 1.
.
However, i'm concerned about something. Sho and me have been reasonably widespread townreads, with a strong town read on each other. We have been "reasonably" active. We are day 5, and neither of us are dead. This does not compute.

So I tried to look a bit at the opinions of the dead people, especially regarding Tierce.
- chamber died n1, and he was really pushing Tierce-scum
- TIP died n2, and he was pushing ABR. He questionned Tierce towards the end of the day, and seemed to have kept the case "for later".
- MafiaSSK died n3. Guess who he was voting towards the end of his life : Tierce.
- Death of ABR is pretty neutral given he was confirmed town, and didn't do anything else than votehop on every single wagon.

So yeah. Three dead people, 3 people suspecting Tierce. Two reasonably high NK targets (shos and me), and one thing in common: never attacked Tierce during the first 3 days.

Vote: Tierce

That's not my kill pattern. As scum, my priority is Town-looking targets, because they're not lynchable--everyone in a game will likely suspect you at one point or another, so it's pretty stupid to leave a paper trail like that. shos and you would likely have been kill targets for me if I were scum.

In post 1880, ActionDan wrote:

In post 1876, Tierce wrote:

In post 1870, ActionDan wrote:I dunno maybe it's shadoweh wanting to lynch SirDan over nl.

Still busy ignoring my question?

Child, please.

Chamber died N1 after expressing a scum read on you while no one else did and your posts didn't strike me as town. I have mentioned all of this before.

And you have yet to explain why my posts didn't strike you as Town. I expected something, after POWERFUL WIZARDRY was over, since you claimed that you can usually tell when I'm Town, but nary a peep. It's like that concurrent game didn't exist when you were analyzing things. You just didn't care about making comparisons to the most recent Town game I have and that you had direct experience with. Why?

In post 1934, shos wrote:L-1

No. And if I were scum, you'd be giving me an out to throw a beautiful emotional tantrum when that fake hammer happened. Stop assuming people can't count if they roll scum, I know how to react "post"-hammer as scum because I'm a goddess at this game with my ~womanly wiles~. I'm Town, I'm not going to be lynched, vote ActionDan.

In post 1937, Tierce wrote:ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit.

really now.

your certainty in your assessment strikes me as something you wouldn't have if you were town here.

But I dunno.

Tuor slew Othrod a lord of the Orcs, cleaving his helm, and Balcmeg he hewed asunder, and Lug he smote with his axe that his limbs were cut from beneath him at the knee, but Ecthelion shore through two captains of the goblins at a sweep and cleft the head of Orcobal their chiefest champion to his teeth; and by reason of the great doughtiness of those two lords they came even unto the Balrogs. Of those demons of power Ecthelion slew three, for the brightness of his sword cleft the iron of them and did hurt to their fire, and they writhed.

VOTE COUNT 5:3

Espeonage

- 1 - SpyreX

ActionDan

- 1 - Tierce

Desperado

- 1 - Cogito Ergo Sum

Tierce

- 4 - PeregrineV, sirdanilot, Elscouta, shos

sirdanilot

- 1 - Desperado

Not voting (2)

: ActionDan, Espeonage

With 10 players alive it takes

6

votes to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-02-25 20:05:00)

Ecthelion > Gandalf, obv.

In post 1940, ActionDan wrote:

In post 1937, Tierce wrote:ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit.

really now.

your certainty in your assessment strikes me as something you wouldn't have if you were town here.

But I dunno.

Given that you have yet to state any sort of way my posts are not my Town play when you just played with me and that PeregrineV is pushing a terrible case when the person who knows me best is V/LA, damn right I'm certain. Elscouta is another possibility given the lack of analysis earlier and the "let's look at dead Town's reads on Tierce" without studying their reads on other people, including the dead scum. I'd put money on these three lynches winning the game.

Tierce you're drivin me nuts this game.

ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit

AD - scum means JS tossed him out in his nonsense night action claims which I have a hard time buying assuming rationality but..JS so maybe.
But then PV is the one who insta-votes him for it?

One man down, another on the block and two others (more likely than not the entire rest of the scumteam) throw themselves out in a way that isn't gonna stop that lynch or even really make them look better for it?

I have a hard time choking that down.

---

But, your exchange today feels good and right, especially with AD. I'm still not thrilled about xRECKx early and doubly so on ABR which served as an esp shield.

Guess its a good thing I don't have to think about it too hard *rimshot*

In post 1936, SpyreX wrote:

Okay tell me on what earth would a not-shitty pro-town player not have seen at that point that Shadow was obvscum.

I don't buy it. Also she is lurking, trying to avoid my accusation.

So, literally every person in this game except for PV then is shitty and not pro-town.

Including yourself at day end.

Just want to be sure thats clear.

Not really, since most people sheeped Tierce's bus that day.

If tierce doesn't answer why he didn't see that Shadoweh was scum at the point I described then I'm not changing my vote

In post 1936, SpyreX wrote:

Okay tell me on what earth would a not-shitty pro-town player not have seen at that point that Shadow was obvscum.

I don't buy it. Also she is lurking, trying to avoid my accusation.

So, literally every person in this game except for PV then is shitty and not pro-town.

Including yourself at day end.

Just want to be sure thats clear.

If this goes through and is town, I want to be very clear that I am going to enjoy when the inevitable powerlynch on Esp happens at lylo.

Just so we're all aware.

Why does it look like you're feeding in to his bullshit? Sirdan is and you're just going to keep beating the Espeonage drum and fucking let it happen?

Shame on you.

@ Shos: What the fuck am I, chopped liver? Tierce is town, so cut the shit and vote sirdan.

In post 1921, PeregrineV wrote:Everyone has posted and no one has refuted my initial case on Tierce. Then, when I went back to look some more, it only reinforced it. Furthermore, no one has a single better reason for any other player.

No one "refuted" your case because there isn't anything to refute, it's just a recitation of the facts. Tierce pushed JS early, forced him to claim along with someone who flipped scum, and then largely ignored him the rest of the game. This is scummy...why? He was a claimed BG in a large game, which is exactly the kind of thing that resolves itself and isn't worth wasting time on and, lo and behold, he fucked up his night actions! Imagine that.

And I presented better reasons for sirdan, I've just been consistently stonewalled by an endless string of shitty pseudo-town clears for him, the latest being your "you think sirdanscum saw JSscum drowning and forced him to claim while still distancing? Impossible!" track.

Shadoweh's vote on sirdan comes AFTER Majiffy has stated that he will not push the sirdan wagon to a lynch, and the immediate reaction is that a NL is imminent. Shadoweh puts sirdan at L-3 with ABR, Majiffy, and Jacob all staying off sirdan; as deadline approaches Tierce switches, followed by AD (who said he's "not gonna do it unless Shadoweh yells at him a lot" because he "doesn't want it and there aren't enough people anyway") and then we NL'd anyway.

Speaking of, AD:

In post 1417, ActionDan wrote:still don't want it :/

surprised he hasn't claimed tho

In post 1418, ActionDan wrote:also not enough people for sirdan anyway

In post 1873, ActionDan wrote:It [the d2 NL] wasn't necessarily [a foregone conclusion when Shadoweh voted sirdan].

What's up with this?

In post 1937, Tierce wrote:So I tried to look a bit at the opinions of the dead people, especially regarding Tierce.
- chamber died n1, and he was really pushing Tierce-scum
- TIP died n2, and he was pushing ABR. He questionned Tierce towards the end of the day, and seemed to have kept the case "for later".
- MafiaSSK died n3. Guess who he was voting towards the end of his life : Tierce.
- Death of ABR is pretty neutral given he was confirmed town, and didn't do anything else than votehop on every single wagon.

So yeah. Three dead people, 3 people suspecting Tierce. Two reasonably high NK targets (shos and me), and one thing in common: never attacked Tierce during the first 3 days.

Vote: Tierce

That's not my kill pattern. As scum, my priority is Town-looking targets, because they're not lynchable--everyone in a game will likely suspect you at one point or another, so it's pretty stupid to leave a paper trail like that. shos and you would likely have been kill targets for me if I were scum.[/quote]

Can you point to a scum QT where you have argued for this?

pending your answer.