Mafiascum.net

, Re: Post 1691, and Post 1692, I never panicked as scum in Wicked. Mollie annoyed me and I didn't want to continue interacting with her. As for your Ffery-read, I want specifics. If I recall correctly, the last game you played with scum-Ffery was Natirasha's Faerie game where you misread her as town so I'm not just going to buy Ffery as town because you say so. I'd like you to elaborate on the emotional response part. I have seen her respond emotionally before as scum (she called Wisdom "toxic" in a newbie game for pushing her). Also, have you read the Space game and Red Wine? There are some things that make me question my read and that's mostly based on some of her interactions with me not matching the scum baseline I have for her. Also, what are your thoughts on Mikuru's replace in post? Re: Post 1701, explain your townread on Penguin. Re: Post 1820, I didn't say I was up for an Egg lynch and I actually prefer Yonce or Mikuru over Egg.

, what are your actual thoughts on Ffery and reasons for your read? You are implying that you are reading her as town but aren't sure enough of that read to derail a lynch if it would happen without you. Also, I don't understand the point on Debuff in Post 1753. I did a search for debuff in Ikaruga and and OC Remix with no results so you are going to have to unpack that or provide links. I do find the mere action of voting Yonce and telling no one else to vote townish though and I feel it is unlikely to come from scum.

, you said that Riddleton's play makes perfect sense as the role that you are. I want an elaboration on this.

~~~

Also, going to go over Yonce's other games tomorrow:
TOWN: Micro 381
SCUM: Mini 1593, (Scum PT)

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I'm trying very hard to make this post with transparency, and in the mindframe that I've wanted to hold on to when I played with you our last couple of games. I think the mindframe bugs you, but it's how I want to play despite that, because I think it has the potential to be a more effective way of working with you in games.

Rephrase this for me. What mindframe? I'm reading it as "my mindframe bugs you but I feel I can work better with you (by bugging you)" but I'm pretty sure that's not what you are trying to say. And FFX didn't work out particularly well although I would say there was fault from both ends.

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I am paranoid about all sorts of stuff in this game. One of the things I'm paranoid about is your read of me. And I did feel like there was that implication in something you posted - that Nacho's read of me was somehow improbable and suspect for it. Maybe what you were actually conveying was that it was improbable and you strongly disagree, without the "suspect for it" underlayer. One of my other small flickers of paranoia is that Nacho's read of me actually is improbable.

I lean town on Nacho and his play here feels a lot different than FFX and more involved and engaged. I won't discount scum-Nacho defending you though regardless of your alignment because that's what he has to do. I also don't discount town-Nacho misreading scum-you because that's one of Nacho's biggest flaws/(or strength depending on how you look at it) as a player - he can often correctly read players he knows as town nearly 100% of the time but doesn't always nail them as scum i.e. he is quick to townread.

Also, hate, hate, hate Yonce's not wanting to replace out when there is a major wagon on her. It reminds me of my scumplay in NikPick V where I had real life stuff come up and didn't have time for mafia but I was scum and Regfan correctly had me pegged so I felt it would be unfair to the town to replace out and let someone else turn that slot around when they had caught scum in their hands and so didn't replace out until nearly everyone unvoted me.

I think town would be less likely to worry about the fairness upon replacing out because a mislynch is the fault of the town as a whole, not the individual so it wouldn't feel like bailing when you are caught.

Well that's just bullshit.

What's bullshit?

↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I'm trying very hard to make this post with transparency, and in the mindframe that I've wanted to hold on to when I played with you our last couple of games. I think the mindframe bugs you, but it's how I want to play despite that, because I think it has the potential to be a more effective way of working with you in games.

Rephrase this for me. What mindframe? I'm reading it as "my mindframe bugs you but I feel I can work better with you (by bugging you)" but I'm pretty sure that's not what you are trying to say. And FFX didn't work out particularly well although I would say there was fault from both ends.

FFX didn't work out great, but it was working out differently than some of our other recent games. And you died on N1. Might have worked out better with more time

It's a near-term vs long-term thing. I think it makes it a little harder for you to pattern-match my play in this game. I'm not at a point where I feel like I can be rock solid sure you're town and just trust that you'll eventually get this read right. Sometimes I can make that leap and even though I'm not rock solid sure, it's close enough for rock and roll. I'm anticipating that it's going to happen here, but I'm hesitant. I'm trying to interact with you like that level of trust is already there from my side, in part to see if my gut already trusts.

If this were a 100% intentionally kicked off process/decision, I'd probably have backed off here and thought maybe another game. But, it's a mindset thing.

That sounds like a lot of woo.

There are players that I feel like our mutual reads will reach in-thread-mason level of assurance sometimes. When I'm being misread by them but feel sure they're town, I take a leap of faith that we'll get past that and be able to cooperate and work together. And that trust leads to transparency in my interactions, intent, and read of them.

Ive felt like you and I, even when we're townreading each other, don't get to that point of cooperation usually. In FFX I was pushing for that to happen on day 1. I believe it can happen, but there's not a lot of evidence for it in our prior games.

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I am paranoid about all sorts of stuff in this game. One of the things I'm paranoid about is your read of me. And I did feel like there was that implication in something you posted - that Nacho's read of me was somehow improbable and suspect for it. Maybe what you were actually conveying was that it was improbable and you strongly disagree, without the "suspect for it" underlayer. One of my other small flickers of paranoia is that Nacho's read of me actually is improbable.

I lean town on Nacho and his play here feels a lot different than FFX and more involved and engaged. I won't discount scum-Nacho defending you though regardless of your alignment because that's what he has to do. I also don't discount town-Nacho misreading scum-you because that's one of Nacho's biggest flaws/(or strength depending on how you look at it) as a player - he can often correctly read players he knows as town nearly 100% of the time but doesn't always nail them as scum i.e. he is quick to townread.[/quote]

He is quick to townread. But he's excellent at reviewing, starting over, and reevaluating. I think that's his real strength as town. I've seen this in our hydra games when we're alive long enough to look back from three days into the game.

That was my biggest challenge in the Nati game you're thinking of, but my ability to withstand that review process wasn't really tested due to his time constraints.

↑ fferyllt wrote:

↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I'm trying very hard to make this post with transparency, and in the mindframe that I've wanted to hold on to when I played with you our last couple of games. I think the mindframe bugs you, but it's how I want to play despite that, because I think it has the potential to be a more effective way of working with you in games.

Rephrase this for me. What mindframe? I'm reading it as "my mindframe bugs you but I feel I can work better with you (by bugging you)" but I'm pretty sure that's not what you are trying to say. And FFX didn't work out particularly well although I would say there was fault from both ends.

FFX didn't work out great, but it was working out differently than some of our other recent games. And you died on N1. Might have worked out better with more time

It's a near-term vs long-term thing. I think it makes it a little harder for you to pattern-match my play in this game. I'm not at a point where I feel like I can be rock solid sure you're town and just trust that you'll eventually get this read right. Sometimes I can make that leap and even though I'm not rock solid sure, it's close enough for rock and roll. I'm anticipating that it's going to happen here, but I'm hesitant. I'm trying to interact with you like that level of trust is already there from my side, in part to see if my gut already trusts.

If this were a 100% intentionally kicked off process/decision, I'd probably have backed off here and thought maybe another game. But, it's a mindset thing.

That sounds like a lot of woo.

There are players that I feel like our mutual reads will reach in-thread-mason level of assurance sometimes. When I'm being misread by them but feel sure they're town, I take a leap of faith that we'll get past that and be able to cooperate and work together. And that trust leads to transparency in my interactions, intent, and read of them.

Ive felt like you and I, even when we're townreading each other, don't get to that point of cooperation usually. In FFX I was pushing for that to happen on day 1. I believe it can happen, but there's not a lot of evidence for it in our prior games.

↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:I am paranoid about all sorts of stuff in this game. One of the things I'm paranoid about is your read of me. And I did feel like there was that implication in something you posted - that Nacho's read of me was somehow improbable and suspect for it. Maybe what you were actually conveying was that it was improbable and you strongly disagree, without the "suspect for it" underlayer. One of my other small flickers of paranoia is that Nacho's read of me actually is improbable.

I lean town on Nacho and his play here feels a lot different than FFX and more involved and engaged. I won't discount scum-Nacho defending you though regardless of your alignment because that's what he has to do. I also don't discount town-Nacho misreading scum-you because that's one of Nacho's biggest flaws/(or strength depending on how you look at it) as a player - he can often correctly read players he knows as town nearly 100% of the time but doesn't always nail them as scum i.e. he is quick to townread.

He is quick to townread. But he's excellent at reviewing, starting over, and reevaluating. I think that's his real strength as town. I've seen this in our hydra games when we're alive long enough to look back from three days into the game.

That was my biggest challenge in the Nati game you're thinking of, but my ability to withstand that review process wasn't really tested due to his time constraints.

sigh. mine.

Yonce isn't really my favoured lynch today.

I'm feeling worse about eye, and potentially egg.

I could see one of them, or maybe anti, and two of medea, moc, and nachohydra.

Serra, if you start a counter wagon, I'll probably join it depending on who you pick.

↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:I actually find myself getting paranoid of him again (but don't tell Mara so hopefully she skims my posts?) since I can't remember a post from him in forever and a half and generally that's a sign of Antihero-scum and Antihero-scum alone.

no it's a sign that antihero is as sick as a dog and sleeping most of the day and crawling on occasionally to do random shit that doesn't require much thought

bp claim doesn't do much for me

sorry, been a busy couple of days. Still here.

21 hours
Can we just fucking lynch yonce?
On a related note, my Medea townread is plummeting.

↑ F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:What's bullshit?

1928

↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:21 hours
Can we just fucking lynch yonce?
On a related note, my Medea townread is plummeting.

Who is this?

That was Skrew. So is this. Cabd I see you on Skype and I see you using e's and d's.

↑ fferyllt wrote:The new blood in this game should have made things awesome for town, given how many of them replaced into slots I read as town. And that's where I think my responsibility factors in. I've been a huge distraction. If I can't shift some opinions, and so far I haven't made so much as a dent, it's not a case of if, but of when.

Today is better than yesterday. Yesterday is better than today.
I think your expectations re: shifting opinions are unrelated considering you only very recently led yourself out of the ether. I also think you underestimate me/Regfan if you think suspicions on you will survive too much longer (as in if I die over Regfan tonight, he won't lynch you tomorrow), so the longer you live in this game, the better.

I'm not sure switching wagons on this town is a good idea this close to deadline. I'm not sure I want to switch the wagon.

I'm going to eat with the buddhathebest, then I'll let you know the answer to those relevant questions because I'll die if I don't feed them soon.

But: if Cabd is scum, which he probably is, Egg probably is not his partner. Who is the third?

I'll be able to check in while the football games on. My parents have wifi and I'm at their house.

↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:But: if Cabd is scum, which he probably is, Egg probably is not his partner. Who is the third?

I don't know. Maybe Mikuru.

I'm not convinced yonce is scum. Willing to vote her but don't feel great about it.

Sorry, ended up being taken away for a family birthday for the weekend, got about an hour now catching up.

↑ Murder of Crows wrote:

↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:But: if Cabd is scum, which he probably is, Egg probably is not his partner. Who is the third?

I don't know. Maybe Mikuru.

I'm not convinced yonce is scum. Willing to vote her but don't feel great about it.

I meant Mikuru/Medea as the first two.

Backup clash with BP is largely a) If town it's a p useless role to have backed up, also means likely one less PR in the game ie. Less roles I can get to even begin with and b) If BP was somehow the first PR to die I could end up being a 0-Shot BP. That said since I could have apparently been an IC it's less of a 'counter-claim' then I'd thought initially, still think Yonce is scum from his play - thought I'd already gone over this though.

Agree with Ms Post 1903, can really see the Mik slot as scum.

Nachohydra re; Post 1905 it's 'manipulative' because she's throwing her comments to attempt to change his mind in a subtle? skeevy? manner, it's a large play at emotion, biggest example I can find is actually directed at F-16 and not Serra and is the parts that F-16 somehow town read italized in Post 1922, there's no real reason to make that statement other than to attempt to get him to second-guess and getting someone to re-think purely using emotional threats of "I'm going to burn your team hard" or "If you're town you'll at least learn to read me better after this" (Appeal to emotion) are disingenuous as shit. It's the same thing re; her Cabd stuff D1, please go re-read it and you'll notice the way that she was 'trying to get a read on him' was moreso her trying to throw fear of 'we're being lynched and you'll look bad since you won't be town read from me'. The point about them playing up being lynched at DL was they were still making posts like "Lynch X tomorrow when we die" ect after it was obvious a no lynch was going through ie. they weren't getting lynched which makes the posts very contrived. And re Post 1908, I can see it simply being them discussing that Eye is a good counter-wagon to the both of them, MoC throws down a vote and Yonce doesn't think through how it would be perceived and throws down a vote alongside it - his reaction towards me suggesting this was OTT and fits with it too.

↑ jesusbuddhavrishnathebest wrote:This site is too big to use meta correctly. That does not mean it's impossible to use meta correctly. A significant amount of meta defense comes from my side because you aren't looking into ffery's scum motivations versus town motivations at all: how many times did you use the same "motivation" in your big case wall versus "feels fake as fuck?". Meta is good when you are intimately familiar with a player. Meta is good when you understand what is fake and what is not. I am telling you that my experience with ffery puts me in a better position to read her because I understand her tendencies far better than you do: if you want to dance the motivation dance I'm happy to be your partner but you have to understand your case didn't address motivations at all (except maybe in the Yonce/Ffery both voting eyesott around the same time).

Except I have addressed the motivations several several times 1) The way she changed her reads especially at the end of D1 so that she was willing to lynch just about everyone in the room and be able to jump onto any weaker player thrown up is a huge scum-tell since it points against scumhunting and instead shows survivalist intent which is scum motivated. 2) The manner she responded to Serra or anyone that scum-read her was done in a manipulative way (Gone into this above), if you're going to continue to insist this isn't a scum-tell for her link me to specific instances where she's reacted in this exact manner as town because again I've only seen her react with more anger and frustration, the way she's done so here does not feel similar or genuine compared to those, scum motivation in reacting in this particular manner would be getting people to second-guess and given the amount she's done it there's a lot of scum motivation towards it 3) The way her Yonce read played out not reading natural, looking like distancing / backtracking afterwards, the way that she jumped on Eyesott today especially re; the timing of it feeling opportunistic. There's plenty more but we can start with that

↑ serrapaladin wrote:How would people feel about a massclaim?

Not just yet I don't think, especially not this close to the DL.