micro 816-II: pokemon go (open game) (gambe over)

[profii]

hang on reading iso

[profii]

Profii, what do you think of the way NSG took my words out of context to push the idea that I'm scummy?

can you quote specifically the bit of NSG you take exception to? Because I am very much siding with NSG right now - however- I want to specifically answer your question.

[Shoshin]

Read page 77.

[Shoshin]

What do you side with NSG about? You think I contradicted myself in a scummy way? Please explain in your own words.

[profii]

for example, this is absolutely horrendous in my opinion, so let's break it down:

1. NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine.

There is a theme in your ISO where you are not appearing interested in other players world views and just want to impose your opinion - e.g. why does you think my content is scummy vs my content is fine are worlds apart.

2. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit.

NSG is right - if you find NSG scummy, any reason NSG has posted is therefore fabricated as she is informed already. Therefore you saying she has a genuine reason to scum read you means NSG is uninformed, ergo, town.

3. And so is her read on Profii. I don't see how she's townreading that.

1869 you say NSG is town reading me, 1923, NSG could be null on me - get your stance on what you think NSG is actually doing clear please

[profii]

reading 77 now as that seems like it might answer 2...

[Shoshin]

NSG, I said the read is fabricated. Do you understand the meaning of the word "bullshit"?

you specifically said that it was fake after i pointed out the contradiction in your thought process

your original post was this:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

i feel as if the important part to focus on here is the "she suspects me because i'm not around, period"

that comment doesn't make sense to make about someone who you believe is scum.

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit. And so is her read on Profii. I don't see how she's townreading that.

This is my original post.

And this is how NSG presents the original post:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

She completley ignores the part where I describe what NSG's doing ("saying otherwise") as "bullshit." This is incredibly manipulative. It's how actual misrepresentation looks. You take something that a townie said out of context and then emphasize its importance while ignoring everything else the player said.

Hey Maria, remember this is exactly what I suspected Shepard for in Errant's game? He did the same shit to me and he flipped scum, as you know.

NSG: "You said that it was fake after i pointed out the contradiction in your thought process."

Me: "Actually, I said it was fake in 1869 before you pointed out any contradiction. That's what the word 'bullshit' means."

NSG: "No, 1869 is actually the post where the contradiction comes from. I'm just ignoring the part of the post where you say my behavior is 'bullshit' and emphasizing the part of the post where you compare my play with what I'd do if I were town."

In what world isn't this an intentional misrepresentation? It's far beyond a simple reading error. She's intentionally emphasizing one thing I said while ignoring other things I said. That is the definition of misrepresentation. Like, I don't get how Profii or anyone can disagree with this.

[Kokichi Oma]

i think he's lynchbait

Lol.what

[Kokichi Oma]

How much time left

[Shoshin]

2. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit.

NSG is right - if you find NSG scummy, any reason NSG has posted is therefore fabricated as she is informed already. Therefore you saying she has a genuine reason to scum read you means NSG is uninformed, ergo, town.

Look at NSG's 1900.

To be clear, NSG ignores the part of my post that desribes what she's actually doing "saying otherwise" and thus ignores the part of my post that says her behavior is fake (i.e. "bullshit").

Yes, in the middle of my train of thought I consider what NSG would do as town as compared with what she'd do as scum. That isn't scummy, it's how townies think. You look at both sides - is this town? or is it scum? - and then you compare what NSG's doing with those metrics. NSG wasn't suspecting me because of inactivity (her words), she was suspecting me because of content. Thus, NSG's read is fake. This isn't complicated.

When I questioned NSG about this, what'd she do? Instead of representing me accurately, she says that I never called her read fake until AFTER she called out the contradiction in 1869. Then she quotes 1869 but removes the part of the post where I call her read fake. She literally hides that part of the post from view. It's visible to all, but she doesn't want to acknowledge it, because she's arguing that I never called her read fake until AFTER she called out a made-up contradiction.

[Shoshin]

Let's also be clear about someting. There's nothing contradictory about considering what a player would do as town AND scum in a situation - looking at both sides of things - that's just a good scumhunting habit.

NSG suspected me for reasons that appeared to be based on inactivity. My initial reaction to that was to interpret NSG's suspicion as some justified paraonia based on my inactivity. But when I said that, she clarified that she didn't suspect me for inactivity. And that's what pinged me initially. So I'm there reconciling two points of view - one view is that NSG's a townie who got paranoid of me because I was disengaged from the game - the other point of view is that NSG's scum who made up some reasons to suspect me. NSG tells me that she's not the first, so that's when I begin suspecting her for the second. And that's what my 1869 points out - it's reconciling two competing views of NSG based on how NSG describes her reasons for suspecting me.

[Shoshin]

Then NSG misreps 1869 (she literally hides the conclusion of the post from her "analysis" in 1900 while expressly identifying the opposite of what she's doing as the "important" part of the post).

[Shoshin]

Koki, you're on board with lynching Profii? Do you agree with me on NSG?

[profii]

sorry, not really.

anyways, on an unrelated note, not sure why i should be townreading shoshin. from the very beginning i kind of just took it as a granted but looking back on his posts right now (and especially those from today), i realize that i was giving out far too easy of a townread.

this is a really scummy pop-in after being prodded that when i look at it really reminds me of scum feeling like "i really don't want to put in the effort to fake something towny so let me just make a few posts in a row"

Spoiler:

prodding shoshin and northsidegal

Meh, I'll get into this eventually.

Why isn't profii lynched yet?

Stun, why are you on Nico?

Why isn't profii lynched yet?

Why would I be lynched

Scummy behaviors.

no effort to get a scumread lynched, a scumread who is apparently so strongly scumread that he asks why he isn't lynched yet. it feels very fake to me.



there's basically no actual content for the rest of his iso up until now, and it's been 5 days since he's posted anything despite having posted in other games within that timeframe

Spoiler: the rest of his iso up until now, you should also look at these yourself because the timestamps of the posts are also important

That's literally the point I was making about Profii.. and you unvoted when asked...

Actually nvm, I can't keep things straight. I'm not reading this very carefully atm

@shoshin i actually need to know why you were so adamant about aronis claiming last day phase? so much so that you were entirely distracted from the profii lynch.

I don't think it's okay for players to troll around like Aronis, be put at L-1 where it's obvious they're going to get lynched if they don't claim, and then refuse to claim. I find that sort of behavior anti-town and I think it's anti-town to let it continue.

Your view of my play is too simplistic, Stun. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Creature's probably town.

This is the original scum read from NSG that set this debate off.

imo...

NSG is saying, you appeared after a prod, didn't particularly do anything towny, therefore you are scummy.

Shoshin is saying what NSG means is you appeared after a prod, didn't do anything, period. Therefore you are scummy.

I think that is a fair and concise way to say what is going on?

Based on that- I asked Koki what he felt Maria's game was, as she is also just sort of pushing me in a similar way to the spoiler tag above (can we lynch pro yet repeat repeat etc)

I specifically asked Koki as he appears to know Maria well(?) and has been towning it up recently so may die- If I survived I wanted to know if that is legit Maria or scummy.

I feel the same about your play - i.e. you are just blindly pushing me, but idk if anyone knows you well enough to say if it's towny of you or not.

But my point is I guess I find you 2 have similar behaviours but I'll take Kokis word on Maria for now - I just don't know about you


saying that

the whole thing about me - I guess scum probably think I can be lynched later and aren't helping the push, or if they are already on, then town are just not that strongly scum reading me and players like you and Maria are very brazen scum.

The latter seems unlikely, which would mean perhaps NSG is looking to stay away from the profii mislynch and as scum she isn't in a position to suddenly scum me based on her progression...

That would suggest Shoshin vs NSG could likely be TvS so we should lynch one and if we are right we _probably_ have an inno and if we are wrong we speed lynch the opposite tomorrow.


that seemed to ramble a bit sorry

[profii]

2. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit.

NSG is right - if you find NSG scummy, any reason NSG has posted is therefore fabricated as she is informed already. Therefore you saying she has a genuine reason to scum read you means NSG is uninformed, ergo, town.

Look at NSG's 1900.

To be clear, NSG ignores the part of my post that desribes what she's actually doing "saying otherwise" and thus ignores the part of my post that says her behavior is fake (i.e. "bullshit").

Yes, in the middle of my train of thought I consider what NSG would do as town as compared with what she'd do as scum. That isn't scummy, it's how townies think. You look at both sides - is this town? or is it scum? - and then you compare what NSG's doing with those metrics. NSG wasn't suspecting me because of inactivity (her words), she was suspecting me because of content. Thus, NSG's read is fake. This isn't complicated.

When I questioned NSG about this, what'd she do? Instead of representing me accurately, she says that I never called her read fake until AFTER she called out the contradiction in 1869. Then she quotes 1869 but removes the part of the post where I call her read fake. She literally hides that part of the post from view. It's visible to all, but she doesn't want to acknowledge it, because she's arguing that I never called her read fake until AFTER she called out a made-up contradiction.

my gut feeling is tell me if we lynch NSG today and it's a mislynch to votepark you tomorrow.

[Shoshin]

I don't care about this stupid chain lynch logic you're coming up with. I want to know how the fuck you think NSG isn't misrepresenting me? Or if you think she's misrepresenting me, why aren't you taking a position on it?

[profii]

she was suspecting me because of content. Thus, NSG's read is fake.

but there was content, it was potentially bad, bad doesn't necessarily mean scum, however, as the bad content was pushing me, I know im town, therefore I know it's wrong which makes me see that NSG has a point.


when I say content, I refer to the spoiler'd bit in the NSG post I quoted

[Shoshin]

I have no idea what you're saying Profii. Do you think NSG misrepresented me? Yes or no?

If no, why did NSG hide the part of my post that conflicts with the narrative she's telling (i.e. she hid the part1869 that called her read fake, while arguing that I didn't call her read fake until after she called 1869 contradictory)? Like, why do that?

[profii]

what is so hard to understand

you said:

she was suspecting me because of content. Thus, NSG's read is fake.

NSG literally highlighted all the content she is suspecting you for in a spoiler tag in 1751 so it seems like you are wrong to me.


so no, not a misrep- you appear to be ignoring what NSG is saying because it doesn't fit your world view.

to answer the 2nd bit of your question.

so your post is about this:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

Saying otherwise is bullshit. And so is her read on Profii. I don't see how she's townreading that.

see above - you are ignoring the content provided in 1751 which she is saying is scummy. (I also agree)
you can't just call her post BS because you don't like it and not try to understand where she is coming from at all.

I see there are some timing issues mentioned - I've not really picked up on that because obviously the content provided in 1751 was before the 'misrep' in 1869 - so this just seems like you calling something bs that doesn't work for you.

[Shoshin]

Profii, I'm not asking you about NSG's initial read. I'm talking about her claim that I contradicted myself and her response in 1900 when I called her out. That's where she misreps me.

[Shoshin]

I'd like you to address the specific things that NSG said in 1900 and explain how she doesn't misrep me. Quote her words from that post.

[profii]

NSG, I said the read is fabricated. Do you understand the meaning of the word "bullshit"?

you specifically said that it was fake after i pointed out the contradiction in your thought process

your original post was this:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

i feel as if the important part to focus on here is the "she suspects me because i'm not around, period"

that comment doesn't make sense to make about someone who you believe is scum.

NSG points out the important part out of what was said in the 2nd bit so I think it’s fair to assume that’s the point she was mainly trying to convey which still relates to my previous posts about content

The whole thing hinges on this because in the first bit you are focusing on bullshit as the operative word


I have asked FL if I’m being super dense here but I don’t think so

[Shoshin]

That's not the important part because NSG literally said that's not what she's doing. WTF? The important part is what she doesn't quote. The part she leaves out. The next fucking sentence in 1869. The part that calls it fake, which directly conflicts what she's saying in 1900. Like, wtf how are you this dumb?

[Shoshin]

NSG, I said the read is fabricated. Do you understand the meaning of the word "bullshit"?

you specifically said that it was fake after i pointed out the contradiction in your thought process

your original post was this:

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period.

i feel as if the important part to focus on here is the "she suspects me because i'm not around, period"

that comment doesn't make sense to make about someone who you believe is scum.

NSG points out the important part out of what was said in the 2nd bit so I think it’s fair to assume that’s the point she was mainly trying to convey which still relates to my previous posts about content

The whole thing hinges on this because in the first bit you are focusing on bullshit as the operative word
In 1898, I tell NSG that my original post said her read was fake.

In 1900, NSG responds to 1898 by saying that's not true. As evidence, she quotes 1869 as my original post but leaves out the part of 1869 where I call her read fake.

Do you understand what misrepresentation is? Do you know what it looks like?

You misrepresent something by emphasizing one part of something said while ignoring another part of what someone said. Emphasize some pieces of information. Downplay or ignore others. That's how misrepresentation works.

What is NSG doing here? She argues that 1869 didn't call her read fake. To make that argument, she quotes part of 1869, while ignoring the part of 1869 that calls her read fake.

This is the definition of misrepresentation. The way you're interpreting this doesn't make any sense. It's like you're assuming NSG is town and can't possibly be misrepresenting me intentionally, so you're going into this convoluted nonsensical explanation about how what she's saying makes sense when it really doesn't.

[Shoshin]

Profii's response to this is really fucking bad. He needs to be lynched.