Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Menalque]

GL, you've mentioned High Noon a couple of times wrt reading Amrun. Does my play from that game influence your read in any way?

were you in the hydra btw? I had wondered about that

and yes, I was Logic
I thought it was obvious by my post-game comments to birb (and to anyone who knows what "datisi" means khm)

ngl I didn't read the whole thing

[Menalque]

Doing an ISO on DDL... his entire Amrun tunnel is shallow as hell tbh

why

[Menalque]

okay my head is starting to turn to mush so I'm taking a pause to have some lunch I'll prob be on this evening if people are still around/if other people are around

[Menalque]

we still have like 24hrs tho so there's no need to rush a lynch

[Datisi]

this is talking about my ddl push D1, correct?

yes, your D1 DDL """push""", and immediate dropping of said push for you being alive even tho 50% of the people voting DDL ended up dead

and also DDL barely mentioning you and having this sorta weird TR on you throughout the game that he handwaves as "townies are wrong"

and now you stopping his lynch again

well yeah exactly, I never really got the chance to push it D1 and when I did people stayed glued onto creature despite the reasons for SRing him being bad

also I don't think I dropped it today, I just said I wanted to reconsider? why is me saying I want to reconsider scum!indicative? esp when I was the strongest advocate for a ddl Lynch and the easiest way to control whether you're getting pushed or not is using the nk as scum to remove people who are likely to be problematic for you and ddl had plenty of reasons to believe I'd be problematic for him today (as in he didn't have good reasons to think I would consider my not being dead in this way)

I haven't got to that point yet but are you not also TRing me? so why is ddl TRing me weird? do you think he should be omgusing regardless of alignment?

also tbh if he is scum at this point then him continuing to TR me makes sense because somehow this "mena is bussing ddl" theory has gained traction

which also doesn't make sense because how are you reconciling my constant anti-bus position with me deciding to bus on D1?

and I'm pausing his lynch because I'd ideally like him to answer my questions without anyone being able to lolhammer, I'm only stopping it if his answers are enough to persuade me he's not scum

Where? You made an actual case on Amrun. All you did wrt to DDL was ask people to vote and make some arguements about inactivity or whatever. Like when you get the time I'd like you to kinda go a bit more in depth there and wrt your Creature TR

okay cool you wanted to reconsider but the only person who gave you any consideration for voting DDL ended up dead and you don't comment on that part at all, like if there was absolutely nobody listening to you except for that 1 person then removing that one person could do a very good job of stopping the wagon and I found it really weird you didn't even seem to consider that?

I'm TRing you yes, but it's shaky, and I'm very not sold on it yet. DDL TRing you wouldn't be as weird if he tried to actually engage with you about your SR on him and maybe try to get you to untunnel or anything? Like don't Townies getting pushed by someone they TR like try to interact with that slot? Instead he gives it p much zero thought and keeps TRing you regardless because "not in danger of getting lynched" or whatever

And I called it "theatre". In scum!Mena and scum!DDL world, that wasn't bussing. The way you "pushed" him, then dropped it gave a vibe of you not wanting to lynch him in the first place.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because it provides town plenty of insulation? Why do you think town having many guns is good?

I don't think having

many

guns is good, as evident by last run

But with one Town gun being dead before he got to shoot and with hell knowing what's the status of the other one, this game might be getting close to mountainous? And i don't like Town's chances there

Also Gamma, I kinda think the problem of your catch-up is speed? You've only done 5 pages, and the game has over 70, with the Day ending in a bit over two days. Your slot has done jack shit this game, and unless we get p lucky with our roses, tomorrow is most likely LyLo/MyLo if we mislynch.

So would be good to have some substance to read your slot I guess? Rather than waiting for the long catch up that's half just fluff.

Eh it’s still not mountainous because there are still Roses to stop kills, beyond that your point is somewhat fair regarding performance in mountainous, but what has happened that makes you doubt town’s abilities?
And yeah I’ll be working on more catch-up today, yesterday ended up unexpectedly super packed with other business. I hope to get to like Page 25 today.

[Datisi]

Eh it’s still not mountainous because there are still Roses to stop kills, beyond that your point is somewhat fair regarding performance in mountainous, but what has happened that makes you doubt town’s abilities?

Yeah, but the odds of getting roses to stop kills are not something I'd bet on

Considering that most of the slots have v questionable moments, half the game is half-lurking, and I can say I'm confidently TRing maybe like 2 people, nothing's happened to *not* make me doubt Town's abilities.

[GuiltyLion]

his disengagement here is enough that it's at least making me question my SR because idk if scum does this little to prevent their lynch/if his scum buddies would also be doing such little to prevent his lynch

why does town do this little to prevent their lynch? when I'm town and at L-1 I'm making gigantic wall posts of all my last reads and thoughts, both to try not to get lynched as one desperate last measure and to help town after my flip

[GuiltyLion]

we still have like 24hrs tho so there's no need to rush a lynch

sure, but we also need six votes to lynch

[GuiltyLion]

I think there is few scum on my wagon as they are content sitting back right now waiting out the deadline because there is no counterwagon threat.

on AF, I think this is maybe town?

if you think that scum is off wagon then can you just fucking lynch ddl with us so I can get the towncred I need to lead this game

hate to break it to you but a DDL scumflip is not how you're gonna get towncred from me

Seconding this, a find it strange that he thinks that'll get him towncred. At the same time, I think Mena knows that a DDL townflip would look bad on him so I don't think Mena is scum pushing a mislynch on town!DDL

Hmm, Datisi might be right about her tinfoil theory

although ss and alimedia are afk so idk

Pls lynch amrun day 3 after 2 town flips calling for her head. That is all

These are DDL's last posts at L-2 and under serious possibility of lynch. hasn't posted yet since intent to hammer. you really think this is all a townie cares to say as they're about to be rung up?

Last game I played with DDL where he was town he was a D1 Lynch in a Micro. here's his ISO from that game. Notice how much more aggressive he is giving out last thoughts/reads, and in general throughout.

Plus this post is fun:

"

I am meek as hell when I play scum what are you talking about

. I literally said in my last scum game, gosh people have scum agendas and plans and I'm just barely able to stay alive.

I want an appology from you after this game when I flip town if you are town too. what you are doing to me this game is entirely in bad faith."

this isn't the same DDL from that game.

[AaronFrost]

Here's a breakdown of why I don't like your GL case Mena.

your reaction was massively over defensive and I don’t really see why town!you would be worried about it

I don't think his reaction was over defensive. And even if it was, is being defensive a scummy trait? Town players have every reason to defend themselves as much as scum players do.

You seem off as well in that you’re choosing to throw quite subtle shade at me instead of trying to work with me

Where was he throwing shade at you?

You’re making a really weird semantics point while simultaneously saying that it’s not so much to influence the game as it is for you to look back at later despite that it’s obviously influencing the game by throwing shade at my slot

Again where was the shade?

Your immediate reaction to being voted is also really defensive “how could you possibly be scum reading me” and again trying to throw shade at me which isn’t what I think you do with someone who I’m pretty sure you were townreading before

Again I don't think GL has been overly defensive in the way which you're painting this to be.

But mostly you’re trying to direct lynches onto the unproductive slots while trying to keep your distance from it by talking about how “I personally don’t have any good reason not to lynch them” which is super awkward phrasing that I don’t think is likely to come from town who I think would just say “I wanna lynch tex/DW for being lurksacks” rather than feeling such a need to justify it

Fair point about tex/Gamma, but I think there's plenty of other reasons for lynching DW other than them just lurking.

It would also make sense from a gamestate point of view in that scum have probably been relatively happy with things and letting the game tick over rather than highly contesting it which makes me think the most likely slots that looked like they were lynchable today were all town (DW, tex, maybe ddl)

GL's become one of my stronger townreads today because his attempts to solve feel genuine and he's showing a townie mindset. I don't think he's been overdefensive or 'shading' your slot, but rather trying to sort it.

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 2.6

Amrun [2] - DrDolittle, Something_Smart
Dogwatch [2] - AaronFrost, alimdia
DrDolittle [4] - Datisi, GuiltyLion, Dogwatch, Amrun

Not Voting [3]

- Iconeum, Gamma Emerald, Menalque

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-21 11:56:16)

[Amrun]

I keep expecting S_S to explain that naked vote on me, but nope. Just hangin out for presumably no reason.


I strongly townread GL now, fwiw. On day 1 I could not follow his train of thought in a genuine way. D2, with the realization that he was comparing it so specifically to high noon, I do.

Menalque, why are you categorizing DogWatch as a lurker? I don’t.

because she has the lowest posts of everyone in the game aside from alim and tex/gamma!slot

I just checked and she had only 3 more posts than alim at the time that you posted this and he hasn't posted in 3 days so my question back to you is why don't you think that's lurky?

Eh, she’s been present for every major game state IIRC. Whenever she posts, it’s content. Not everyone is a spammer. That aspect doesn’t bother me.

[Amrun]

so actually I did reread creature's ISO and I think he was very clearly engaged and trying to get reads on multiple players by the end of day

would you disagree with that assessment @amrun

He picked it up, yes, but Creature is a high post rate player no matter what he’s playing. I find post count irrelevant. I also think all his reads at the end when he “seemed” more engaged were really, really bad.

[Amrun]

Why did Creature make 80 posts in two days if he was disengaged?

Have you met Creature?

I know enough to know that post count is meaningless for him

.


I don’t really have a ton of experience with him so maybe I shouldn’t be talking like that, but,

perhaps Creature and I have different definitions of “engaged,” too.

I myself have had a very difficult time engaging with this particular game, but I’m getting there.


My point is, though, that I try to take into account dead players’ reads, as referenced up thread, but I have never, ever been tempted to let them supplant my own reads. Not once.

okay so how do you define being engaged and why do you think post count is meaningless for creature?

I think Creature is a fine player that is prone to spamming. I can’t be more specific right now for ~reasons~ but I don’t think the fact that he has a high post count means they’re content posts. I think he never got into this particular game, and gave a token effort at the end to successfully fulfill his obligation as town. I don’t have any problem with him, or even with his play here, but I think the quality of his reads this game were very poor at the end and from the time he seemed to lose interest forward. They were ok in the beginning. For that reason, he read to me as disengaged. I can’t really speak for him but that’s how I see it.

[Amrun]

I mean he expressed confidence in his datisi scumread multiple times

Yeah but Creature said Amrun was scum ten times

Is this a real sentiment?

Pret said Datisi was scum almost as many times with more reasoning and oomph behind it, to boot.

For what reason do you literally not even register Pret’s reads, or anything Datisi has done even though they’ve been quite active, but have memorized Creature’s ISO even though he wasn’t here for half of the game day?

Seriously, what on earth?

[Amrun]

GL, you've mentioned High Noon a couple of times wrt reading Amrun. Does my play from that game influence your read in any way?

were you in the hydra btw? I had wondered about that

and yes, I was Logic
I thought it was obvious by my post-game comments to birb (and to anyone who knows what "datisi" means khm)

I didn’t realize.

[Amrun]

Also, I don’t buy tinfoil on this one. One at most of DDL/Menal is scum.

I also do not read his giving up as a town thing.

[DogWatch]

VOTE: menal
your ddl push is gross and your GL push is gross

okay why are those pushes gross and why do them being gross make me the most likely player to flip scum fypov

I don't think you're the MOST likely to flip scum at this point, I think DDL is, especially after GL's 1747 which I found highly incriminating. He also makes a great point that low resistance to an inevitable lynch is not pro-town nor consistent with DDL-meta. I'm still toying with the idea of your DDL push being bus station theater (your unvote at L-1 looked sus from that perspective) but if DDL is town then I think you're indeed a lot less likely to be scum.

And I can't remember specific posts at the moment but you threw a lot of misrep at GL (calling him over-defensive for instance, which is laughable) a few pages back that I couldn't agree with and you looked reachy. Like, if you think scum is coasting, then GL can't be scum. It was one of your worst posts in the game imo, other than 1767.

[DogWatch]

I mean he expressed confidence in his datisi scumread multiple times

Yeah but Creature said Amrun was scum ten times

Is this a real sentiment?

Pret said Datisi was scum almost as many times with more reasoning and oomph behind it, to boot.

For what reason do you literally not even register Pret’s reads, or anything Datisi has done even though they’ve been quite active, but have memorized Creature’s ISO even though he wasn’t here for half of the game day?

Seriously, what on earth?

I don't think 1874 was serious but I am pretty baffled at whatever logic SS has been using in his reads. On the face of it, I think the back-and-forth between SS and Amrun is probably TvT though because what motivation would scum!SS have in sheeping one flipped townie over another? It seems like a weird stance to take.

[Datisi]

Gentlemen, the deadline is near. Is anyone around for a chat?

[Menalque]

u called?

[GuiltyLion]

Creature [8] - Salamence20, GuiltyLion, Datisi, Amrun, AaronFrost, Dogwatch, Iconeum, alimdia [LYNCH]

DrDolittle [4] - Datisi, GuiltyLion, Dogwatch, Amrun

this is something to potentially look at tomorrow after a DDL flip, or we can speculate it about it now, but all four current DDL voters were on Creature EOD. Could be up to five if Aaron also jumps on as he indicated.

If DDL flips town it seems extremely unlikely that this group is all town, especially since DDL is/was a prime scum off-wagon candidate. However, if DDL is scum (and I think he is), I think this group is

potentially

all town - people genuinely trying to participate and solve the game - and so if there is scum on the Creature wagon, it'd have to be on the very back half in Ico/alimdia.

I'm still townreading Ico so I'm a bit thrown. I'd be interested to hear if anyone believes both DDL is scum and he's currently got a partner voting him right now.

p-edit: good timing, I'm here!

[GuiltyLion]

Menalque I find it kinda sketch you were sitting around to reply immediately but hadn't responded to any of the latest stuff

[Datisi]

Attaboy the squad's here! Mena, thoughts on 1929?