Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia II {Game Over!}

[DrippingGoofball]

Kinda defeated the purpose of the core idea of the game (the dilemma itself) to have so much peripheral stuff affecting the prison.

I echo this sentiment.

I found that zachattack played a really solid game for the scum side, as did Moratorium for the town side.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Anyway Moratorium, you got what was coming to you in the QT. Your avatar, your name, your signature, everything about it is creepy lol

But we had a funny exchange here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 42#1436642

[Plum]

Just felt like a mafia-run prison to me. Every night scum had manipulative powers to affect prison. Kinda defeated the purpose of the core idea of the game (the dilemma itself) to have so much peripheral stuff affecting the prison.

Anyways, I would like to see M-M's opinion on this game, what he perceived, what rules he'd change in the future (if anything), etc...

Agreed. If the scum had only 2/3 of those powers, maybe . . .

[Albert B. Rampage]

Look guys:

Freeko's ability could completely fuck up our capture kit ability AND our answer swapping ability.

The gas only has a % chance, and it is as likely to kill scum as town.

The town had the tools to win, they just didn't use it.

[Moratorium]

ABR, this isn't like the post-game game to see who can best justify whether the win was valid or not. Game's over. Everyone will take from this whatever they want.

People are just expressing their opinions on the setup.

I didn't mind you badmouthing me, we're cool.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Moratorium

I hope to see you again in another game, hopefully, on the same side!

[Moratorium]

Thanks, DGB, same goes to you.

[DrippingGoofball]

Meanwhile, you can go get yourself a non-creepy avatar

[zachattack]

This was probably my last game on MS, but I'll echo the compliments for Moratorium and ortolan, for carrying the town most of the way, to ABR, for taking the lead in the quicktopic up until his death, and to Percy for taking the lead in the thread until he was sent to jail on Day 3. You're all some of the best players I've seen here, and I enjoyed playing with you.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@Mora: I admit there was a very small chance the game could have not ended a Mafia Win. But given the fact that an endgame filled with various PD scenarios is already hard to resolve, I considered the Mafia win % to be large enough to satisfy the win condition.

@complaints about Mafia being overpowered:
I think the setup is pretty balanced. One fundamental aspect about this PD game is that

most of the time, it is a bad thing to go to prison

. I even dropped the hint "The most frequent fate of prisoners was the desired result: death" in the opening flavor post.

So the more players are sent to prison each night, more bad things will happen to those prisoners. The town mainly lost this game because they thought it would be good to send in the max players to gain positive powers. That's where the Mafia powers comes in to balance that town strategy. Better strategies for the town would include either sending as many scummy players as possible or sending only 1 pair of players each day to gain powers.

Also there were some good town powers that didn't realize their full potentials such as freeko's avenger and doctor no/CW's tracker/implanter pair. This combined with Mafia strategizing and playing well to realize the full potential of their powers, it's no surprise the Mafia won.

[Moratorium]

Probably the easiest way to emphasize that "most of the time, it is a bad thing to go to prison" (which is something that no one picked up on) would have been to make it slightly more evident.. like the suggestion from my screenplay earlier...

And the town descended to chaos. Pretty soon, town was overwhelmed by the mafia element in the town. The Prison was renamed "Guido's Spaghetti Emporium".

[Moratorium]

...that suggestion being to rename the prison something scummy...

(my brain is rambling today)

[DrippingGoofball]

The town had no kills, so sending players to prison was the only way for the town to eliminate scummy players. Or sending players in town/scum PD's, as was done with Percy and myself.

And each time we'd go to night, we had an SK to worry about, and a scum NK! Plus 3 millers and a godfather!

You could play this set up a thousand times, and the town will win once.

[DrippingGoofball]

And the town descended to chaos. Pretty soon, town was overwhelmed by the mafia element in the town. The Prison was renamed "Guido's Spaghetti Emporium".

Yeah, I like that. Also, the guards/waiters are Nico, Rocco and Don, trying to stop traffic of bootleg tomatoes and cannolli. The Italian flag flies at high mast, and the gym is painted red, white and green. The pinup girls on the walls have mustaches.

[zwetschenwasser]

*facepalm*

[jakep]

How did I get sent with jakep for powers is what I want to know. I'd been acting like a solid townie, but jakep really came out of left field, I couldn't believe our luck when people started pushing to send me with him instead of sly. Also, why did English Argo say yes?

Pretty much this. I was away from the thread for a day, and when I came back, was a vote away from being sent with Zach.

[SlySly]

Congrats, scum.

I think the setup is fine. The town had plenty of chance to win, it just refused to work together.

Being silenced for 2 days was kind of a bummer but it was fun once I could talk again. I look forward to playing in the next PD.

[zachattack]

I <3 Sly, he made Day 3 incredibly fun.

[Stephoscope]

Woohoo, my first win!

Signing up for this one was a mistake...I was in way over my head. My contributions sucked not because I was trying to act scummy, but because I had no clue what to talk about. Sorry scumbuddies

(from here I signed up for a few Newbie games, and now I like to think I'm a little better player )

[DrippingGoofball]

I <3 Sly, he made Day 3 incredibly fun.

Yes, I wanted to kill him, and that sure was fun!

I'm very much looking forward to locking horns with Sly again.

[Dr Pepper]

I would have given SlySly far more room to breath had I realized there really were 6 to 7 scum plus SK this game, I just found the idea so far out there that I was more than happy to night kill him.

Also, noone bought my vig story because I tried to be to creative. I had mod information that there were no vigs so I knew I wouldn't be counterclaimed, I just got to fancy paraphrasing my PM.

I kinda knew that PD was basically a death booth waiting to happen, but I wanted every one dead and had a lot of work to do, so I let the town hang itself, I didnt realize how many scum I had to shoot along the way.

I even shot Albert B for trying to convince the town of the correct play, I just got lucky for hitting scum.

[Percy]

From the beginning I wanted everyone to go to prison; given our powers, I think all scum shared this view. We wanted to turn the prison into an abbatoir, which we did in style.

I made a few mistakes, but managed to wriggle my way out of most of them. Once Day 3 came around, we wanted to use the flip during the evening, and that's why I claimed a guilty on DGB. It turned out to be harder than I expected, but not too much harder, to get into prison with her.

Poor SlySly, I felt very sorry for him

If solorpg had been killed or roleblocked last night, today would have started with only two (or three) scum - DGB would have killed me, and zach/jake would have no powers and look incredibly fishy from having answered yes/yes.

TCS was great for us, and his replacement got similar treatment - leave the lurking, uncooperative members unexamined while they use all our neat abilities unhindered!


I think what was required to win this game was to send scum to prison, possibly with townie partners. Be cold hearted about it and enforce 1-1 trades!



Can I just clarify - Moratorium was totally NKable, right, MM?

[Moratorium]

No, I wasn't. Any scum in prison could have put the kill order in on me.

[Seraphim]

No offense but I'm kinda glad I replaced out. Scum looked like they kicked hardcore ass.

[solorpg]

No, I wasn't. Any scum in prison could have put the kill order in on me.

I checked. That wouldn't have worked.