Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over


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Post Post #1950 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:46 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

In post 1828, morph the cat wrote:
In post 1798, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:I wanted to wait until I had discussed things with Quilford before posting, but he's been pretty busy lately. I'll be honest: I don't think I completely understand morph's plan. Everyone makes a list of their top townreads and then everyone else transfers to those people? And there's no way of checking whether scum is following the plan?

I mean, I don't think there's any scum motivation behind morph suggesting it and I personally think they're probably town. But it just seems fruitless.
The plan doesn't ensure the kind of accountability that was possible in the earlier game designs, but it does limit the ability of scum to interfere with the transfers.

What the plan does do, though, is concentrate town funds so that they can be spent more effectively on abilities, and put a burden on scum advertisement costs that would be difficult for town players to do individually.
Is it bad that I'm a lot happier with it now that I know I'm in the top 6? I want to buy some shit!

I also feel guilty that we never got around to posting our 6, so our personal score is probably a bit inflated. I've posted mine in the qt and am just waiting for Quilford to have time to go over them and agree/disagree.
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Post Post #1951 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:48 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

he said in the post he selfvoted that it was his last post
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Post Post #1952 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:51 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

In post 1866, Garuda wrote:words
DoctorPepper is always like this
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Post Post #1953 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:52 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

I mean, I can understand that DP is not particularly towny and that he would be a good lynch if we didn't have people like Voided and Mhork scumclaiming.
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Post Post #1954 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:54 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

In post 1874, morph the cat wrote:
In post 1873, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
We're sifting through shit, and I forgot MM was the place for mechanics a-hoy. I'm usually not this late to the party. Most of you know me as the guy who's name you'll generally be fucking screaming later. I'm Ghostlin, and I will post in color. I expect PA to nicely introduce herself.

I'm not so nice. I'll have a wall soon about which of you, frankly, suck and deserve to eat rope.
No pressure or anything but we're hoping to get to the eat rope part of Day 2 in less than 1.5 days because mechanics.
So why are you switching to DP? Voided was
right there!
Ugh.
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Post Post #1955 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:55 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

In post 1887, DoctorPepper wrote:Ohh, a wagon on me led by my scum read. Predictable.
DID YOU LEARN NOTHING FROM HERMY?
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Post Post #1956 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:03 am

Post by uʍop ǝpısdn »

In post 1912, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 1878, pieguyn wrote:. so you were pissed off because he was attacking you when there wasn't any problem? I thought it was because you didn't like how he asked questions that were seemingly pointless.
My first question was because his question didn't really specify why or how they were similar, which is what lent to the scum theory I gave.

The 2nd question ties back to me believe that there was nothing wrong.

The 3rd question has my annoyance with the pointless question.
Can you two please quote what the hell ever you're arguing about?
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Post Post #1957 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:17 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

^V wrote:I can understand that DP is not particularly towny and that he would be a good lynch if we didn't have people like Voided and Mhork scumclaiming
i'm still fine with a voided or nero wagon if they happen. i don't think mhork is scum, though.
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Post Post #1958 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:22 am

Post by ProHawk »

You want me to replace out and let someone else struggle through this honestly lame game? You two little girls saying I have done nothing (despite me actually doing something) and trashing the work that I actually have put into the game is dumb. If it weren't just Muffin and Voided, two people who have been undermining me since day one, I would actually consider it.

You two are really annoying to play with TBH.

Like literally, you two are pissing and moaning about the little work I have done and have said jack squat about the people who have contributed actually less than I have. Its one thing to disagree with my analysis, its another thing to trash it completely. Grow up.
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Post Post #1959 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:40 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

what analysis?
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Post Post #1960 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:43 am

Post by ProHawk »

Go away
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Post Post #1961 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:43 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

what about my summary of your play today do you think is incorrect?

i'm STILL fucking waiting on you to explain the upsidedown vote. your reasons for thinking harakiri is scum are still weak. you've pushed neither of these lynches strongly. you've provided little analysis outside of your semi-VCA that you really didn't do much with. and you've spent most of your recent posts asking morph about me, but you're not voting me, so like...... yeah.

and now you want to lynch seanald because of one post. you know, that same thing you criticised the people voting hermy D1 for?

stop whining.
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Post Post #1962 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:44 am

Post by ProHawk »

Actually

VOTE: Voided

Kill me then MuffinMan
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Post Post #1963 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:46 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

i'd vig you if i could
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Post Post #1964 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:39 am

Post by Lost Butterfly »

Prod dodge, since I'm running late for work. I've been busy with work and spread really thin the past few days. Faraday sent me a message saying he thought the DoctorPepper lynch was so-so (it's kind of similar to the Hermy lynch except DoctorPepper hasn't done anything, but his reads WERE terrible), but he also thinks Nero has a higher chance of flipping scum (I was actually starting to warm up to Nero, but his late D1/early D2 stuff was bad), but I frankly don't know why he couldn't have just said that in the thread himself instead of flagellating himself for his "uselessness." Also, we prefer DoctorPepper to Voided, because although I don't like Voided as much as I did yesterday, he's still looked quite genuine at times in response to pressure.

I really want to get actual reads out, so I'd request people wait until I'm around tonight before hammering DoctorPepper UNLESS it's the difference between an extra $5 efficiency bonus. (In that case, it's my own fault for putting it off so long and doing absolutely nothing today.)

I'd started typing this response out to Nacho like a couple of days ago and forgotten to submit it, though, so:

@Nacho: the "reasons" I was referring to re: morph was that Doctor and Watcher both showed up on N1. It led credence to their claim. (If you notice, I said something similar about upside down, since they were the only ones to claim a Cop advertisement before Banakai.)
Reading through their ISO I'm not particularly inclined to do much explaining with this read (because it should be really really obvious to everyone with eyes), but reminding myself of how fucking town they are makes me get weird on LB a little more because honestly the paranoia on Tammy should be pretty much eradicated and turned to ash in a blast oven by now. I don't care how bad you think Tammy's points on you are, do you really think *this* is what her scumgame has become?
Given that we included her as third in our list of six, obviously our paranoia wasn't very serious. morph and upside down had actual hard evidence in their favour (morph is proven to have advertised Watcher, and upside down is proven to have advertised Cop). We were mostly starting to discuss Tammy a lot behind the scenes to double-check that we weren't letting her slip through the cracks. Our main concerns were 1) she didn't seem to be following up on her suspicions of us, 2) we might have been underestimating how well Tammy can play in multiscum (she might have genuinely believed everything she was saying about us), and 3) she'd gone quiet for awhile on D2. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, but it was on my mind because I'd just been talking about her to Faraday on AIM.

Edit from the future: her most recent posting does a lot to remove this. She's back to a rock-solid town read.

I also maintain that the wording of that Voidedmafia quote reads as off (although the format of probably made it sound like it played a larger part in my renewed suspicions of him than it actually did).
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Post Post #1965 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 am

Post by Lost Butterfly »

VOTE: Nero Cain

I'm mostly just sheeping Faraday. Also, this is a better placeholder vote than ourselves, anyway.

EBWOP:
it's kind of similar to the Hermy lynch except DoctorPepper hasn't done anything,
Um, I mean, isn't as obviously scummy, just hasn't done anything of substance.

Also, fuck, I'm really late for work now.
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Post Post #1966 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:59 am

Post by Garuda »

Empire here, as of yesterday, been trying to catch up on the ridiculous amount of pages I've missed due to sickness since I last posted in this thread (which you can imagine is just a lot of fun). Nacho told me about The Plan(tm) last night when we talked on skype and I didn't find any of it objectionable when looking at it at first glance but I'll have more time to be thinking deeply about it today (well, aside from a block of time between 2PM-7PM where I won't be here). I'm *hoping* to be fully up to speed by the end of tonight and realposting by then.
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Post Post #1967 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:24 am

Post by Lost Butterfly »

Actually, um...

I just skimmed Nero's ISO to see if he'd ever followed up on his Harakiri suspicions or answered
why
Love Potion and Vote Freezer were sooo protown, and...his posts about Muffin and Mhork (particularly the thing about them not being scum together)...actually...looked kind of genuine...

.____________________________________________________________.

FARADAY. GET IN HERE AND SAVE ME.

Um, Nero, assuming I didn't miss it, I don't suppose you could answer the thing about Love Potion/Vote Freezer? Or explain whatever happened to Harakiri/why you still suspect them?
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Post Post #1968 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:28 am

Post by Lost Butterfly »

I should also mention to Nacho that Voided's explanation for the post I thought sounded like other-team fishing is confusing and evasive and doesn't make sense. (Will elaborate when I have more time to look up the quotes.)
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Post Post #1969 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:43 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 1946, morph the cat wrote:This is quite a list of complaints for someone on that list:
Well, that read came before this.
In post 1953, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:I mean, I can understand that DP is not particularly towny and that he would be a good lynch if we didn't have people like Voided and Mhork scumclaiming.
lol.

So you're going to be the idiot who calls things scumclaims when they're not, N? Good luck with that.

If we're scumclaiming, why don't you show everyone?
In post 1958, ProHawk wrote:You want me to replace out and let someone else struggle through this honestly lame game? You two little girls saying I have done nothing (despite me actually doing something) and trashing the work that I actually have put into the game is dumb. If it weren't just Muffin and Voided, two people who have been undermining me since day one, I would actually consider it.
I'd have little problem with your body of work (sans how little it is, obviously) if it weren't for the fact that most of your other posts of note involve saying stuff like "this wagon is a quicklynch" (or something like that) when the wagon's either already gone through and it's the next day (Hermy) or when the wagon's already on the cusp of going through (DP). I gave you a townread based on a townie-sounding post, but you really haven't done much to make me build off it when you came back.
In post 1958, ProHawk wrote:Like literally, you two are pissing and moaning about the little work I have done and have said jack squat about the people who have contributed actually less than I have. Its one thing to disagree with my analysis, its another thing to trash it completely. Grow up.
Actually, yes I have. Those people have either replaced out, are on my scumlist (Klick, before the wagon on him; DP), on my townlist (Banakai) (or stupidtownlist, in the case of Seanald), or are currently attempting to catch up and/or be relevant (JS, GP). Try again.
In post 1962, ProHawk wrote:Actually

VOTE: Voided

Kill me then MuffinMan
So you are not even trying? Cool, thanks for proving me right.

Now get.
In post 1968, Lost Butterfly wrote:I should also mention to Nacho that Voided's explanation for the post I thought sounded like other-team fishing is confusing and evasive and doesn't make sense. (Will elaborate when I have more time to look up the quotes.)
You mean the one that people (Morph) are claiming I scumslipped in?
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;

coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
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Post Post #1970 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:31 am

Post by Ghostly Penguin »

In post 1945, BBmolla wrote:
In post 1928, Ghostlin wrote:Molla is either being scum or stupid from his posts. While I'm not fuzzy about LB yet, tehy're right with the muitiquote. Also, no one gives a shit about muitiball day one. Except if you're scum.
What exactly would make me stupid or scum in particular

Because I can probably attribute it off to being stupid but I need to know what you're referring to
Your entire ISO up to that point is full of cute shit. It's like you cast two RVS votes, and then decided to play a game where you'd most the most fucking insipid fluff ever.

This is a Marketplace game. At the very fucking least, you could talk about mechanics and what Town's theoretical best move would be. You seemed uninterested in doing that, and hence you're a scumread for me.
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Post Post #1971 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:08 am

Post by Ghostly Penguin »

Through Page 20:

#399 Pyro: I don't see the use of this argument. Generally, unless a slot is known for gambitting and admitting they gambit as scum, it's generally a fucking Town thing to do. Also, the sins you just accused LB of...half the fucking game is guilty of.

You're town too, that's why I'm saying it's not a good use of your time.

#417 upside: You're not fucking trying, are you?

Page 17: Pyro and LB, I want the time you've wasted making me read that page back.

#425 LB: "Moreover, THIS IS A COMPLETE FUCKING DISTRACTION THAT DOESN'T HELP FIND SCUM." DING DING DING. Meanwhile, scum has managed to find ways to powerlurk through it. This has given me a very light read of Morph.

#428 Garuda: I'd rather you be mastubatory with your reads list. I want to watch your thought processes. Consider me the ceiling cat of your brain.

#440 Upside: I would like to thank you, and Seanald from saving me time and claiming scum. Or at least P-lynchable.

#448-449 BE: BE is Town and will not be lynched. Thank you for your patronage. Seriously, tho', that's someone who's actually trying to pay attention to this game where there's been a lot of lurking (and some Town dickwaving, but that happens every game)

#452: It probably didn't help this fucking Town, but who ever activated Deadline was interested in seeing some shit actually happen this game.

#457 VM: I don't know what the fucking make of this. It's mostly MM Mafia theory and shows no trajectory (in this case, Ghostlin's using it to declare suspicion towards a person) anywhere. I've just waded through twenty pages of shit and I have some opinions. Where the fuck are yours?

#459, Klick: Yeah, what you have to know is you have to read the fucking thread.

$467, 469 Molla: God, I really do think you're scum.

Ghostlin only reads through Page 20:

Town: LB, Pyro, BE (who went from he's light scum to I can't picture him being scum...thank you Day 1's), Garuda (light), Morph (light)

Scum: Prohawk, Molla, VM (light, mostly on discussing theory, rather than scum hunting), Mhork (really light, everyone's on his ass, and it's the first major wagon of the day, which in Ghostlin's experience is rarely correct. I'll see if it's a 'sticky' wagon), Klick, Seanald, Upside (all of which are suspected for being fucking useless; also it's really kinda of funny that Seanald said 'I'll see you day 2' and then Deadline got activated.)

PA told me via hydra thread she'll be here to share her thoughts, read and treat you to someone who won't insult you.
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Post Post #1972 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:23 am

Post by morph the cat »

In post 1969, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 1968, Lost Butterfly wrote:I should also mention to Nacho that Voided's explanation for the post I thought sounded like other-team fishing is confusing and evasive and doesn't make sense. (Will elaborate when I have more time to look up the quotes.)
You mean the one that people (Morph)
are claiming
I scumslipped in?
You mean the one I said I could see it as a scenario exploration? There were other, earlier posts that felt like other-team fishing. I called them out in this post.

Spoiler: from my scumreads post
In post 1503, morph the cat wrote:
VoidedMafia


The scum vibe started with our first exchange.
In post 88, morph the cat wrote:
In post 86, Voidedmafia wrote:You aren't scum?
Unfortunately not.
In post 89, morph the cat wrote:
In post 86, Voidedmafia wrote:You aren't scum?
p much had to happen eventually.
In post 92, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 87, BBmolla wrote:Opposite team scum found.
Eh, don't see it.

Morph, don't lie to me. P-EDIT: We pretty much just were scum together. Sorry if I'm a little paranoid now.

pyro, bald: Or, yknow, she doesn't think that neighborizer needs to claim?

We've had three scum games as a hydra. We've won all three. But, they weren't awe inspiringly impressive wins for the most part. Well maybe that one game. Oh yeah Voided was our scumbuddy in that game. Still, though, declaring paranoia this early in the game with nothing on which to base it looks unusual. It's not like our meta was going to go unnoticed this game.

Nacho is going to tell me that it makes perfect sense for Voided to be this paranoid. And I'm going to point out that even I give Cabd time and room to actually do something I
can I freak out about before I start with the in-thread squinty eyes.
In post 108, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 93, zMuffinMan wrote:voided is scum
Ha.

What'cha got, then?

P-EDIT: Vote me, now? That's not nice, Mina.

I largely adverted EV for myself. Had thought of the possibility for better people than me to get it, but largely for myself (and to make sure scum didn't advert or get it later).


Bald does have the sound of someone who's not used to larges and feels a bit over his head, but his recent posts don't make me think he's town.

ED2:
Vote: Prohawk


That's what you went for?


PE3: If you remember, I wasn't in it until the last couple nights of the game. Also, they didn't claim they had neighborzer until it was necessary to finish the stranglehold we already had on the game. So that's not even relevant, and I still don't see why whoever got it needs to claim now.

I don't see the purpose of your proposal, either, so.
This seemed either incredibly optimistic or just plain reasoning that a town player wouldn't come up with.

advertizing decreased the amount of money that could go to the auction on the same night, so given what we already know about the game mechanics, how would Voided feel that certain he could acquire EV? And why would town care if scum advertise it unless it's something we wanted to be purged from the availables asap?

- specifically where he voted ProHawk. It always catches my attention when a player whose posts are starting to sound town to me suddenly draws a vote, because the vote feels out of step, like the player doesn't realize that town sentiment is silently shifting as new stuff hits the thread.

In , this:
Voided wrote:But were any of those kill stopping abilities owned by town or even available N0? Were they available N1? No and yes. Furthermore, I do think that having some kind of flip to work with via lynches certainly helps solidify reads (either through how people got the lynch through, or just from the lynch alone). Doc protects are a good way to avoid losing more when a townie is accidentally lynch (so long as they protect correctly), but just because the ability's there and just because this is a large doesn't mean that no-lynching should always be an option in the back of our heads.

Besides, no-lynching in that situation is still stupid to me. Doing that and trying to make the most on short time is better than just doing nothing because we suddenly only had 3 days to do anything.
...read to me like he was upset with scum. With other-scum. Especially the first paragraph. I can't see town being annoyed about this.

Also this:
Voided wrote:I don't think PV-scum'd lose much by fishing for a partner N1, so long as it wasn't a blind toss. I would hope that if he is on a team they used other means to find scum last night. (and one in particular)
And in I felt like Voided was going after the lowest hanging fruit in his scum pile.


Seanald


This is more of a wtf read than a scum read I guess. As hard as it is to imagine town thinking that auctioning austerity measures is a good idea, it's even harder to imagine scum thinking it's a good idea to say you bought that crap.
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Post Post #1973 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:26 am

Post by morph the cat »

What part of this post supports your assertion of "are claiming", Voided?
In post 1706, morph the cat wrote:
In post 1702, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 1701, PeregrineV wrote:
Unvote.


Will get my top reads up probably today.
I don't see a statement of you believing me or not.

Likewise from Morph, too.
Do we believe you about that post being (part of?) a scenario exploration? I can read it that way, so I'm no longer pushing it as a slip.

We've had our vote on you since the start of Day 2. That post obviously wasn't a driver in our decision.

-----

It's bothering me atm that Nacho-garuda isn't pushing for a different lynch at the moment, he's arguing against the two top lynch contenders' wagons. This applies to LB also, though not to the same extent.

But, I saw similarities in Nacho's thought process in the Walking Dead game, hydra-ing with him. Sometimes scumhunting is more about townreads and PoE than about strong scumreads.
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Post Post #1974 (ISO) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:31 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 1971, Ghostly Penguin wrote:#457 VM: I don't know what the fucking make of this. It's mostly MM Mafia theory and shows no trajectory (in this case, Ghostlin's using it to declare suspicion towards a person) anywhere. I've just waded through twenty pages of shit and I have some opinions. Where the fuck are yours?
...In every other post of mine around there?

Also, it's nice that you ignore the rest of the post and only focus on the part where I suggest a plan. Good to know that you can't really read stuff well, eh?
In post 1971, Ghostly Penguin wrote:#448-449 BE: BE is Town and will not be lynched. Thank you for your patronage. Seriously, tho', that's someone who's actually trying to pay attention to this game where there's been a lot of lurking (and some Town dickwaving, but that happens every game)
So...ignoring where I posted theory in 457, what makes these different from my 457?
In post 1972, morph the cat wrote:You mean the one I said I could see it as a scenario exploration? There were other, earlier posts that felt like other-team fishing. I called them out in this post.
I guess that was the wrong post.
In post 1973, morph the cat wrote:What part of this post supports your assertion of "are claiming", Voided?
That's what you said it was before my response to Peregrine about it -_-.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;

coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
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