Mafiascum.net

Titus wrote:[v"]mhsmith[/v"]

For the fifth fucking time.

Titus wrote:[img"]http://i.giphy.com/lJIlmnkrqJRKcFdm.gif[/img"]

Can we just lynch smith now?

Titus wrote:

mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.

And with this post, you've became a scumread.

That's far to premature and this reeks of buddying.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Titus wrote:

mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.

And with this post, you've became a scumread.

That's far to premature and this reeks of buddying.

If that's the post that made you suspicious of him then what's the deal with your other posts about him?

First vote was semi-RVS based on a tell from another player off-site that I don't really value but I wanted to investigate. RVS is good for that.

Titus wrote:That was garbled.

I meant another player off-site uses a tell that I am investigating. By that standard, mhsmith would be scum.

Then, he starts buddying.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?

A joke claim in RVS = fry him. Pisskop knows this I believe.

Titus wrote:

UpsideDownChuck wrote:

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?

A joke claim in RVS = fry him. Pisskop knows this I believe.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here? If I'm not mistaken soah was asking why you were characterizing mhsmith's post as buddying and not a joke, which I am also interested in.

Jokes that imply scumminess = fry em.

It used to be a certain joke that happened always came from scum. (Namely X always rands scum). In general I don't like jokes that place others in bad lights.

Thor - Was my first town IC
.) Secondhand Revenant - no
.) Royal Ape - no
.) MysteriousLad - fair amount
.) soah - no
.) ljtrigirl - no
.) pisskop - fair anount
.) mhsmith - a couple games
.) spider - no
.) Yellow - no
.) Titus - years of experience
.) UpsideDownChuck - no
.) Azure - sounds familiar but cannot recall

Titus wrote:What's complicated about

if someone says joke in RVS lynch it

so I don't consider the possibility of jokes in RVS that paint someone as scummy?

Like many many words obfuscating the truth

Add in mhsmith triggered a tell someone i highly respect uses

done case closed

Titus wrote:My god. This one of those games.

If someone makes a joke in RVS and that joke throws shade, you lynch the "joker".
A player I respect has a tell that would suggest mhsmith is scum and I want to investigate its validity.
mhsmith is buddying.

What part about that is hard to get?

Titus wrote:) There was no "joke claim", just someone asking me why I didn't consider your posting is a joke. To me, you were throwing shade, so it didn't matter joke or real. So rather than get into a semantic argument over what's a joke, just lynch all jokers who throw shade. That's what's true from games I'm in. I've seen too many "so and so always rands scum" jokes and they flip scum. So I am ignoring the "joke" defense.

Then again, you've answered part of what would qualify. Both you and yellow cannot be town because both yellow. That's a joke. Plus, it throws shade at yellow.

I'm not in the mood to discuss semantics. If it was a joke, it's a scummy RVS joke. If it wasn't a joke, it was throwing shade.

Seriously, not rocket science.

Titus wrote:

MysteriousLad wrote:

Titus wrote:[img"]http://i.giphy.com/lJIlmnkrqJRKcFdm.gif[/img"]

Can we just lynch smith now?

Has your play style changed recently or something?
Little surprised you would even jokingly suggest that.

It's been a year. I have added a little bit of Mollie, Shiro and a hint of DGB (who I believe has the tell on Smith). It might have been Mollie retelling it.

Oh and I wasn't joking. We should lynch smith.

Titus wrote:

Thor wrote:[MENTION="]Titus[/MENTION"] - I will happily compare bad tunneling instances versus you any time - I don't think it's a contest that will change my stance towards your play this last year. Your current push is based on air and you're acting like it's serious and then dishing at people pointing out that it's air. You deserve a scumread.

[MENTION="]Yellow[/MENTION"] - your vote on mhsmith looked pure survival to push the two competing wagons of which you were part of into an mhsmith leading wagon. When you combine that with your lack of real stated reason to suspect him along with no mention of it being a survival oriented vote, it makes your vote look very scum motivated. That's why I think we should flip you.

Royal's reaction to me calling him suspect looks scummy to me. Consider that a stronger read now.
Sora's reaction to my post is a joke - but he can feel free to read up on me all he wants.
MysteriousLad is starting to hug a fence, I'd like to see that change.

If you're town, get out of the way. The student has surpassed the teacher. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's based on air. My push has withstood the litany of scum pushing against it and the counterwagon formed on obviously town Yellow.

I presume you've played with boring. Not a chance they are scum here. Yet, there's a counterwagon on them.

Let's keep it shall we. No butthurt negative reactions.

Titus wrote:

Royal Ape wrote:

Titus wrote:

Royal Ape wrote:Gut evil .

[img"]http://i.giphy.com/BaIaIDLSXEI.gif[/img"]

Does that recalibrate your gut? It's off bad.

It maybe recalibrates it on you. Azure can still be evil though - right?

Theoretically, I don't have mod confirmation, but I highly highly doubt it.

Evil does something to save smith.

Titus wrote:Like compare wgeurts asking about the tell to investigate, versus those who just outright attack with no questions.

wgeurts is scumhunting trying to figure out whether I'm blowing hard.

Thor, who has the most experience with the players who I drew my play from, has remained utterly silent.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?

Take this...

He wants to get most players to dismiss smith as joking and jovial, the very fake tone Smith is attempting to project.

He is hypersensitive so he paints technical errors as scummy.

smith is just scum.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:Also, how sure are you that his last post was not a joke?

Take this...

He wants to get most players to dismiss smith as joking and jovial, the very fake tone Smith is attempting to project.

He is hypersensitive so he paints technical errors as scummy.

smith is just scum.

So now you're disputing that smith was joking?

And you're calling me a wolf?

This would all be a lot easier if you'd communicate more clearly.

I don't believe in RVS "jokes" that paint people as scummy. That's pretty clear from my posting so far.

I'm suspecting it. Why else are you so desperate to have smith be labeled a joker when he was wildly throwing shade around?

Yeah, let's pretend the reason you're not voting scum is because I didn't communicate clearly.

Titus wrote:If you feel there's something "unsaid" about my smith rationale, you can comment.

smith triggered a tell.
smith is faking a joking attitude.
smith isn't scumhunting.
counterwagon on obvious town.

Done.

Anything about that not clear? or just not clearly attackable?

Titus wrote:

MysteriousLad wrote:Thor and Titus can you please quit attacking each others play if you're town? It just clogs things up and gets us nowhere. Work together, or ignore if you are unable to overlook your differences.

If you're scum, carry on making a good player look less reliable. Give us an easy way to get one scum knocked off our list.

There's no need for this otherwise.

You townreading Thor? To me, he's just chainsawing for Smith.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Titus wrote:I don't believe in RVS "jokes" that paint people as scummy. That's pretty clear from my posting so far.

I'm suspecting it. Why else are you so desperate to have smith be labeled a joker when he was wildly throwing shade around?

Yeah, let's pretend the reason you're not voting scum is because I didn't communicate clearly.

You are changing the timeline here.

You initially attacked smith for buddying, and made no reference whatsoever to the other half of his post. A charge of "buddying" is one that necessarily requires a very careful analysis in order to distinguish wolfy buddying from a villager who is just making a read on another (presumed) villager. Most people do extremely poorly at making this distinction even when interpreting posts correctly, so it seemed to be of particular relevance that you appeared to not even be interpreting the post correctly. (To be more specific, it was the other thing you said, something about his read being way too premature, which would be completely invalidated if smith's post were not meant to be taken seriously, though the two issues were tied together to some degree.)

It was not until after I raised this point that you introduced the argument about making a joking attack, though you still referenced the buddying argument again later without ever offering any clarification about whether you were reading that part of the post as a joke as well.

You label smith as "wildly throwing shade around", which, again relies people actually interpreting his post as anything other than a joke. But you would have us believe that this game can be solved solely by blindly applying simple heuristics, with no examination whatsoever of context and the specific details of the posts. This, frankly, is absurd.

I have offered you many chances to transparently lay out the thought process that went into your posts, yet you have chosen instead to ignore my simple questions and engage in ad hominem attacks on me in place of explaining your own actions. Calling me "desperate" is begging the question. I started out merely by asking you how sure you were that the post you'd responded to was not meant as a joke. As you continued to evade my questions, I became more forceful in asserting myself, as it seemed that my original tactics were ineffective. There is no need for me to be desperate in painting smith's post as a joke, because such a conclusion seems transparently obvious to anyone who reads it, and even you yourself won't go out on a limb far enough to say otherwise. The only thing that I have been desperate about is to try to get you to actually explain your own posts.

I've laid out the thought process repeatedly. In fact, your opening betrays that fact as you accuse me of changing the timeline. Which is it? Did I lay nothing out? Or is what I laid out insufficient?

Nah, on page you say someone's buddying it's good enough to get things going. He was buddying. Yet, you are always there trying to force alternative explanations down my throat and claiming it's scummy not to agree. You tried to shove "joking" down my throat and now you're trying to say town buddying. Town buddying on page , why? You're the one that needs to justify it.

You were the first to claim joke. I don't believe in joke RVS. I told you as much. I even analyzed supposing your "joke" assertion was correct. Jokes that shade are scummy. I don't think mhsmith was joking at all.

Again, wildly throwing shade around is scummy, jokes or not. There are no "RVS jokes". That's just scum flailing.

You have opted to ignore my succinct to the point rationale and instead dismiss everything as a "joke" by mhsmith. He's no jokester.

Titus wrote:[url"]http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=#p[/url"]

There you go mhsmith/wgeurts.

Titus wrote:

pisskop wrote::<

titus is posting links to games where I get lynched as scum.

I dont get lynched as scum all that often. Hell, my win record as scum is like %

That's actually a coincidence. I posted it to show there's no such thing as joke RVS.

Mastina hydra joked I always drew scum and voted me. (Was scum)
Dave joked I always drew scum and voted me. (was scum)
Blackest Magic joked I drew scum and voted me. (was scum)
mhsmith "joked" that I was scum because I struggled with the vote counter and voted me. (alignment undetermined.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Titus wrote:I've laid out the thought process repeatedly. In fact, your opening betrays that fact as you accuse me of changing the timeline. Which is it? Did I lay nothing out? Or is what I laid out insufficient?

Nah, on page you say someone's buddying it's good enough to get things going. He was buddying. Yet, you are always there trying to force alternative explanations down my throat and claiming it's scummy not to agree. You tried to shove "joking" down my throat and now you're trying to say town buddying. Town buddying on page , why? You're the one that needs to justify it.

You were the first to claim joke. I don't believe in joke RVS. I told you as much. I even analyzed supposing your "joke" assertion was correct. Jokes that shade are scummy. I don't think mhsmith was joking at all.

Again, wildly throwing shade around is scummy, jokes or not. There are no "RVS jokes". That's just scum flailing.

You have opted to ignore my succinct to the point rationale and instead dismiss everything as a "joke" by mhsmith. He's no jokester.

You're changing the timeline of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And you have not laid out your thought processes repeatedly. For example, I've asked you at least three times what prompted your "Can we lynch smith now?" post, and you've refused to acknowledge it. You've also refused to give a straight answer about to what degree you interpreted smith's post to be serious or a joke, even going as far as to argue that such a distinction is merely a matter of semantics. In this post, you're now asserting that you don't actually think smith was joking, despite the fact that you've repeatedly asserted that "jokes throwing shade" are wolfy. Now that you're finally taking a stand that you don't think smith was joking at all, the burden is on you, the prosecutor, to actually make the case. So far you've mostly just danced around all of the relevant issues.

Nope. The burden is on whoever is changing minds. You're not going to vote smith because the truth of smith being scum isn't enough. I don't need all of you, just some of you.

Smith has been obvious scum since his introduction. The cheeky "caught up". There's nothing townie about him.

You want to derail his wagon, you find a better suspect.

@Thor,

) You should be familiar with the tell, because you've played more with DGB and Mollie than I have. One of them uses it.
) I laid evidence that jokes that throw shade are bad regardless of who does them.
) You agree that mhsmith isn't scumhunting but claim this isn't enough because no one else is. Like dude, shade patrol is out in full force.
) If you think obvtown is a bad stance to take, why didn't you pressure pisskop for it? I've taken obvtown stances and been right before. I'm frankly a better townhunter than I am a scumhunter. When I work from PoE, I am at my best.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Thor wrote:

MysteriousLad wrote:Yellow has made it overwhelmingly clear that she never voted Titus as a genuine vote, but to demonstrate the sites voting mechanics.
Do you disagree?

I find it a little hard to believe you're unaware of this, neither do I understand why you persist.

His point is the one Chuck made - Yellow made a "joke" that cast shade.
He's asking why that got him grief and not Yellow.
The implication is that Titus is applying scumtells without logic, or that Titus has a marked agenda for who she wants lynched. Both raise issues with Titus' current push.

Now do you understand why he brought it up?

I think that this is slightly off, actually. smith was responding to this line from Titus:

[quote"]mhsmith "joked" that I was scum because I struggled with the vote counter and voted me. (alignment undetermined.

The post that is described here was written by Yellow, but Titus seems to be attributing it to smith. (Hence smith refers to it as mis-remembering events).

Titus wrote:[MENTION="]soah[/MENTION"], You and I have very different views on "good" village play. Good village play to me is nailing scum and then persuading the thread to follow you and sheeping if confused and giving your townreads space to investigate. What's yours?

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:

Titus wrote:[MENTION="]soah[/MENTION"], You and I have very different views on "good" village play. Good village play to me is nailing scum and then persuading the thread to follow you and sheeping if confused and giving your townreads space to investigate. What's yours?

If your attempts to persuade other players result in all of the active players expressing bafflement at what you're trying to say, and your reaction is to complain about how everyone other than yourself is an idiot, then you're not even meeting your own definition of good play.

Do you see me giving up? Fuck no. I cannot control the comprehension of others. I can control continuing to pummel Smith into the ground because he's scum.

Titus wrote:And what are we supposed to draw from this self meta flail spam mhsmith?

If you're aware of your meta, you can do whatever you want with it?

Titus wrote:

UpsideDownChuck wrote:

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:If your attempts to persuade other players result in all of the active players expressing bafflement at what you're trying to say, and your reaction is to complain about how everyone other than yourself is an idiot, then you're not even meeting your own definition of good play.

Do you see me giving up? Fuck no. I cannot control the comprehension of others. I can control continuing to pummel Smith into the ground because he's scum.

Titus the idea that smith's joke was intended to 'throw shade' at Yellow in any real way is preposterous. So it the idea that that's a reliable tell, witness your own townread on Yellow.

At one point you indicated you believed that smith went after you for struggling with the vote counter, then it was pointed out to you that that was not the case. That seemingly hasn't shaken your confidence any, neither have people talking about how you were misreading Yellow's intent in her joke post (which could more reasonably be construed as shade-throwy). What gives?

Yellow didn't throw shade. That's your interpretation.
mhsmith has thrown shade at everyone here, one instance not withstanding that I misinterpreted.
mhsmith rather than scumhunt has basically put up a bunch of self-meta and told the thread to go find reasons why he's town.

Titus wrote:

UpsideDownChuck wrote:

Titus wrote:

UpsideDownChuck wrote:Titus the idea that smith's joke was intended to 'throw shade' at Yellow in any real way is preposterous. So it the idea that that's a reliable tell, witness your own townread on Yellow.

At one point you indicated you believed that smith went after you for struggling with the vote counter, then it was pointed out to you that that was not the case. That seemingly hasn't shaken your confidence any, neither have people talking about how you were misreading Yellow's intent in her joke post (which could more reasonably be construed as shade-throwy). What gives?

Yellow didn't throw shade. That's your interpretation.
mhsmith has thrown shade at everyone here, one instance not withstanding that I misinterpreted.
mhsmith rather than scumhunt has basically put up a bunch of self-meta and told the thread to go find reasons why he's town.

To be clear I don't really think either of them were throwing shade in a meaningful way (I hate that phrase in mafia by the way, it seems like a way of mischaracterizing people's scumhunting attempts). But if someone told me one of these was throwing shade:

Yellow wrote:

mhsmith wrote:[v"]yellow[/v"]
choo choo

Yellow, specifically tell us why you thought Titus was worth a vote there after she (tried to) vote me after my back and forth with soah? Any opinion on me or soah? Or spider for that matter?

Titus, you, and Soah are clearly all scum. Her struggling with the vote thing was just a ploy to get us to think she's an innocent townie. You and Soah are obviously scum-buddies trying to distance in the beginning while it's safe.

Spider is conf. town. Only town worries about their avatars. Everyone knows that. I realize that pisskop is heavily trolling, but he's town too.

Solved the game in . hours. New record.

mhsmith wrote:"tell us more"

with those three words, pisskop has solidified a town read unto the very core of my soul. I'd explain why but mere mortals cannot fully fathom the depth of my certainty here.

PS there can be only one yellow town player here, and I already have the lemon ninja avatar. Ergo yellow must be a wolf. QED my friend.

It would be the former.

I'm not sure how your second and third points are even compatible with each other. Is it possible that what you're calling 'throwing shade' is actually his style of scumhunting, which differs appreciably from what you're used to?

No. I've played with mhsmith. He doesn't do this when pressured.

The idea is a joke that throws shade. Yellow wasn't joking. She was calling out a baseless scumteam to get the game going.

There can only be one yellow so you're scum is a joke like Titus rands scum a lot so vote her. It's not scumhunting at all.

Like, you can keep saying reality isn't true, it is true.

Titus wrote:

mhsmith wrote:

Thor wrote:

Yellow wrote:@Thor - I've already listed the people I've played with. I've never played with mhsmith before. You can have your meta, but I'm going to hold out hope, for his sake, that this isn't his typical approach.

I've played with him and am saying that he doesn't fake stupid.
Is your current theory that

. I am utterly wrong in my awareness of him.
. I am his scumbuddy lying to protect him.
. He changed his playstyle for this game in order to fool people.

I see a lot of 'meh' there.

You should vote Azure.

While it's true that I don't fake stupid, to my recollection, I don't think you've seen my wolf game. Have you in the past read any of my wolf games? Why are you under the impression that I don't fake stupid as a wolf? Or do you merely think I tend to be derpy as town?

Are you seriously arguing "I'm too dumb to be scum right now?"

Titus wrote:

Yellow wrote:

mhsmith wrote:I'm not really seeing the obv!town from yellow, but maybe I'm just being a dumbass. Is it as soah described or more than that?

[MENTION="]Yellow[/MENTION"]: were you aware that your vote on Titus wasn't counted when you made it? If so why didn't you just tell me when I first asked you about it?

I explained it in my very first post. In the post where I was doing the "voting". Your response looked like (still looks like) a retarded line of questioning. I responded in a way I thought fitting. You asked again after the vote count came out and it clearly wasn't there. So I figured on the off chance that you really were that obtuse, I even quoted it to you in red.

Now, you can keep asking about the same thing over and over again. You can keep at it all the way up to your deathbed. But I'm done responding. It's just making it harder and harder for me to be civil. Ask others what they think of it, turn it into the most convincing case mafia universe has ever seen. IDGAF, but don't look for me to rehash this again with you.

*sees the word "retarded"*, *hears nails on a chalkboard*

Ok, I'm going to try this again. Your post was scumhunting by suggesting a team. mhsmith has been shading people without solving them. How the fuck is that "selective"? I'm not pressuring people for being town.

And yes, I do agree people being dumb makes it harder to be civil.

Titus wrote:

mhsmith wrote:

Titus wrote:

Yellow wrote:I explained it in my very first post. In the post where I was doing the "voting". Your response looked like (still looks like) a retarded line of questioning. I responded in a way I thought fitting. You asked again after the vote count came out and it clearly wasn't there. So I figured on the off chance that you really were that obtuse, I even quoted it to you in red.

Now, you can keep asking about the same thing over and over again. You can keep at it all the way up to your deathbed. But I'm done responding. It's just making it harder and harder for me to be civil. Ask others what they think of it, turn it into the most convincing case mafia universe has ever seen. IDGAF, but don't look for me to rehash this again with you.

*sees the word "retarded"*, *hears nails on a chalkboard*

Ok, I'm going to try this again. Your post was scumhunting by suggesting a team. mhsmith has been shading people without solving them. How the fuck is that "selective"? I'm not pressuring people for being town.

And yes, I do agree people being dumb makes it harder to be civil.

Her post was scumhunting by jokingly selecting a team that she didn't actually think was the team? Is this really your read of what happened there?

Yes. Much like Clue. You throw shit out there. Then you get information. That's scumhunting. That's why I giffed her.

Titus wrote:

Secondhand Revenant wrote:

Azure wrote:Oh, and it looks like there's a vote againat me already. Yep, this is the Champs game all over again. Except this time, instead of letting it go like I did before, which placed a wolf firmly in my definite town read spectrum, I'll keep my suspicions.

Doubt it's something people will follow.

Thoughts on Titus and her argument against smith? I think it's fairly ridiculous to push him all day over that

You're smith's buddy so of course you paint me as ridiculous.

Titus wrote:

Secondhand Revenant wrote:

Titus wrote:

Secondhand Revenant wrote:Doubt it's something people will follow.

Thoughts on Titus and her argument against smith? I think it's fairly ridiculous to push him all day over that

You're smith's buddy so of course you paint me as ridiculous.

I've laid out why and I'm hardly the only one. Your logic is either terrible or scummy

You've recycled the "selective" point which I've already proven false, but you don't care because you want the attention on me and not on Smith.

Got any original thoughts?

Titus wrote:mhsmith hasn't done one ounce of scumhunting, yet everyone says my push is minor.
mhsmith has shaded everyone fucking here, yet, I'm excluding the rest of the thread, despite putting a read wall up and having reasons for all of it.
I'm selectively scumhunting allegedly because I honestly highlighted Yellow is obvious town.

[MENTION="]pisskop[/MENTION"], Not funny.

Titus wrote:

soah wrote:I'm gonna throw this out there:

A bunch of people are meta-defending Titus on the basis that she tunnels a bunch, etc. This is creating incentive for her to continue tunneling, in other words, if she's a wolf then she's being given a pass for not being more productive and even as a villager it might (negatively) affect her play.

In order to nullify this incentive, I'm going to point out that in her wolf game on this site, she death-tunneled someone all of day (and died that night), and in her village game on this site she came out of her original tunnel and won the game alongside the guy.

Tunnelling for me in NAI.

I just am right though so...