Mafiascum.net

In post 1628, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 1622, Vivax wrote:And I don‘t know how Luke cooks posts so quickly but it‘s sort of scary and feels very reactive.

I secretly have 1,000 monkeys constantly typing away at keyboards in an office building, and I am just scanning through looking for the best ones to cop and paste. They have gotten pretty good at it, my posts in my first few games were nearly unintelligible.

I believe it
But if you think this text is unintelligible, oh

Okay, so I think Ircher like... kinda knew he was gonna die as soon as he came back to the thread for the first time.

When he first comes back after his initial 3 posts in 451, it feels like he's already on anti-spew mode. He picks one (presumably) townie to tunnel and then elaborates on no other reads. He limits his interactions with other slots and in general just feels incredibly interested in not giving out a lot of information. I think this makes sense that with 9 votes on him that while he's hoping to dissolve the pressure, he also probably doesn't feel too confident in doing that and wants to minimize the amount of information he gives out.

That makes me think that Ircher is going to feel incredibly awkward about mentioning or interacting with his teammates from this point onward. That is, he's going to feel even more self-conscious than usual about it due to the amount of pressure he's under, pressure he's under while needed to develop his *very first reads* of the entire game. This might mean he avoids mentioning or interacting with them much at all.

Vivax is, I think, a random townie that he just picked to hard push until he died and hopefully make it look like he was bussing. He doesn't move off of Vivax until he dies and reiterates Vivax as a very strong scum read™ throughout the day. I think he wants it to look like a bus. And I feel he'd feel more comfortable doing this anyway than picking a scum mate to actually bus as he might not be able to do that convincingly. This is all ignoring the vig stuff that comes later which also probably makes Vivax town. (If Vivax was scum fake claiming vig I think it would have unfolded entirely different but that is neither here nor there)

So, what other slots does Ircher hand out?


uncrowned
mastina
roden


These are all slots Ircher directly calls out as he's creating reads. None of them have much justification behind them besides Ircher reading and then calling it out. Honestly, my gut here is that all of these are actually town and Ircher doesn't feel the need to build associations between these slots. The most he talks about any of these slots (besides vivax) is mastina, and I don't really think calling her reads bad and horrible but still calling her town is the most intuitive way to interact with a scum buddy?

In post 803, Ircher wrote:I haven't read much from Titus. I see she is voting me, so that's minus points. I also don't get why she thinks there is guaranteed one scum between Smart and I. Despite that, given the sample size of evidence, I do not wish to give a conclusive read at this time.

However, there is one other (non)read he gives out which seems to stick out from these other ones? This is the most detail he gives for any of his reads besides Vivax and ends with being nonconclusive.



not very many posts later, Ircher has slid Titus into his scum reads without further explanation. *this* feels more like the soft distancing and awkward handling of his buddy's slot that I would expect from Ircher under this much pressure.




===============================

I want to hear from you about your read that Mastina is "actually always scum here." That feels like unearned confidence on a slot I find to be an extremely difficult read. I read your case on how she interacts with her scum buddies, but it seems to boil down to "she had too confident of a read too early." And I don't really get why that doesn't apply to any of her other reads? Like I feel mastina always puts on an air of bravado with all of her reads and her being right on one doesn't necessarily convince me that she is always scum here and was TMIing. Do you feel like her push on you is particularly disingenuous?

sorry for wall, i didnt really know how else to format my catchup and i didnt want to blow up the thread with half formed thoughts

I can see mastina scum now.
But it's probs the only really active one

also what exactly are your concerns about malakittens? I did start skimming towards the end because its getting later, but I feel like you'd have more success and feel less "hopeless" if you articulated some worries here

because right now this is just a vanity wagon and I'm not entirely sure the reason for it beyond "uh oh here's a slot with less thread presence"

Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

Dann can be town.

Penguin why do you think S_S is scum

In post 1958, Dannflor wrote:Penguin why do you think S_S is scum

I don't really want to be too specific but it was around his mech talk about productivity and early posting today wrt productivity and PRs.

He hasn't done much to allay that since then.

Also - did you see that he vote D1 upon request?

so weird.

was it something you think he got like "wrong?" (whether intentionally or because he's coming from a scum perspective?)

or was it the mech talk in lieu of other content

I didn't

or I did but I forgot about it

I do think S_S acquiesces like that more often as scum? S_S you have a comment on that?

In post 1956, PenguinPower wrote:Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

In post 349, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 347, furtiveglance wrote:I don't think I'm doing mental gymnastics when I say that I originally assumed 16/5, but now that Ircher assumed 17/4 without acknowledging that they were assuming that, I am now considering a 4-player mafia team with Ircher as one of those.

No, that's reasonable. I don't want to say too much before Ircher gets a chance to respond, but I think this is a plausible scenario, if not super likely.

In post 760, Something_Smart wrote:Ircher, please pick a productive line of thought instead of whatever this mastina shade is.

I don't find his posts about/towards Ircher super partnery. The latter feels like something that would be said in the scum PT if it were to be said.

It's not really strongly leaning either way though and obviously associatives aren't everything

In post 221, Titus wrote:I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

I guess it kinda bothers me if you have something you feel strong about in S_S because I sort of doubt Titus and S_S are scum together?

which means I think one of us is wrong

Maybe it's too much of a jump to just assume that Titus would never make this post so early about two of her buddies but it just seems so brazen if so

In post 1961, Dannflor wrote:was it something you think he got like "wrong?" (whether intentionally or because he's coming from a scum perspective?)

or was it the mech talk in lieu of other content

eh - i want to leave it there for right now.

In post 1963, Vivax wrote:

In post 1956, PenguinPower wrote:Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

Old deal, Ancient Wave
A bubble keeps them sane while
servants are lasting

In post 1219, Roden wrote:

In post 1190, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 1180, Roden wrote:

In post 1177, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 1148, Roden wrote:

In post 1136, Andresvmb wrote:You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

I'd made some points about Uncrowned earlier when prompted by Andres and it never really got a response, instead it got buried by all the focus on me and my role and trying to "gotcha" me. They were insistent on trying to get me to play, but once my activity and content sky rocketed they had nothing to say and instead just blankly voted me. Why ask me to do more if you had no intention of engaging with me? Why didn't they or anyone else have anything to say about my read?

What really stands out is that Uncrowned criticized my posts D1 for being too focused on mech despite only making two mech-focused posts. But then today there has been pages upon pages dedicated only to discussing mech and voting people based on mech. Yet Uncrowned has had nothing to say about it, and instead supported a wagon based on mech.

In post 1967, PenguinPower wrote:

In post 1963, Vivax wrote:

In post 1956, PenguinPower wrote:Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

Old deal, Ancient Wave
A bubble keeps them sane while
servants are lasting

Servants don't consume fossils, machines do. You think the former is more valuable than the latter?
Should have become a resonance chamber, not a latifundium

In post 1969, Vivax wrote:

In post 1967, PenguinPower wrote:

In post 1963, Vivax wrote:

In post 1956, PenguinPower wrote:Mastina could be;
Scum. Probs. Though she is the;
Only active one.

I see writing like a wave and an old deal struck at 5 AD at the eve of the Fall of Rome that persisted until today, while people follow their programming in their little bubble that keeps them sane, while a bunch of remnants of feudalism keep the servants at arm's length telling them this machine is going to last forever.

Old deal, Ancient Wave
A bubble keeps them sane while
servants are lasting

Servants don't consume fossils, machines do. You think the former is more valuable than the latter?
Should have become a resonance chamber, not a latifundium

Fossil of import
machine action takes
determine value?

One of my favs in movies is Will Graham, what mastina would call an empath. A cranky guy who is drawn to sympathize with evil without imitating it.
If that makes you Hannibal, why would I ever have any interest into trying to sympathize with you ?

I would like to hear more from Uncrowned about what he wants today

In post 1951, Dannflor wrote:@LUKEWARM I want to hear from you about your read that Mastina is "actually always scum here." That feels like unearned confidence on a slot I find to be an extremely difficult read. I read your case on how she interacts with her scum buddies, but it seems to boil down to "she had too confident of a read too early." And I don't really get why that doesn't apply to any of her other reads? Like I feel mastina always puts on an air of bravado with all of her reads and her being right on one doesn't necessarily convince me that she is always scum here and was TMIing.

"Always scum here" is a hyperbole. She was my strongest scum read at the time of making that post (Although, I will say that I think that Titus and her have swapped places since)

I have found that if you don't talk that way, no one takes your reads seriously. In part, when I wrote that, I was in "I am going to leave stuff for later" mode because I was pretty sure that I was getting vig shot tonight, which appears to not be happening anymore. Definitely not tonight anyways. But I really did not want people to be writing off Mastina because of her claim thing, and I was posting under the assumption that I was gonna be gone before that ever resolved. Seemed like the best way to make sure that my suspicions on Mastina carried through past my death.

My issues with Mastina are a few things. I have read three games of scum!Mastain. NQN, Control, and SubReddit. (Played in NQN and Subreddit, spectated Control). In subreddit, Mastina was purposefully playing differently then her usual scum meta.

The way that she interacted with Ircher looked to me, exactly how scum!Mastina interacted with her scum partners FL and Enchant in NQN, and Ceph and Ircher in Control. Like, smacked me in the face as "oh look, the exact way Mastain plays scum."

Furthermore, as Klick pointed out, her opening post 17 also is eeriely similar to her opening post in NQN.

Do you feel like her push on you is particularly disingenuous?

And I have also been scum reading her push on me, just not saying it because the moment you say you scum read someone for that, it feels like the moment people stop taking your read seriously and try to call it OMGUS. Her push on me this game, felt like her push on my in subreddit, where I was her strongest scum read. I have yet to feel that way about the way Mastina has interacted with my slot in any of the games where she was town.

She picked me out on page two as a person she was gonna call scum, and has parked her read there, and has done nothing but double down. Then when pushed by Fire to explain why she is so sure I was scum, the answer ended up being:
-I don't have an "A-HA" and
-My scum case on Titus is full of "mistakes in narrative"

When pushed for a specific mistake in narrative, it was that she thinks Titus is town for reasons presented in 1672

In post 1858, mastina wrote:You literally just said I pointed out why Titus is town. The reasons I pointed out for Titus being town demonstrate the mistakes in Lukewarm's narrative.

Like, this whole circular reasoning on why she claimed to think I am scum, when pressed, landed on She town cased Titus, I still think that Titus is scum, I must be scum. And I am struggling to swallow that those are real thoughts that she is having this game, when her own description of Titus before this was

In post 1221, mastina wrote:Titus is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does not match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

The uncertainty she presented in her own read of Titus leaves me unable to believe that me scum reading Titus is a Real Genuine corner stone of her scum reading me.

In post 1858, mastina wrote:Because in this game, I wouldn't have. It's that simple, really. I didn't say I couldn't, or that in general I wouldn't. I said that in this game I wouldn't.

I meant exactly what I said. I might bus to set Ircher up in general. But in this game I wouldn't. In this game Ircher would explicitly be worth less than me. And I don't bus scum who are worth less than me; I only bus scum who are worth more than me. So in this game specifically, I wouldn't have bussed Ircher. I would have strong reason to not have done so. (Specifically, because of knowing about CONTROL. A big, big thing about my scumgames is that I avoid doing the same ploy twice. I bussed Ircher in CONTROL, which means that I couldn't bus Ircher in this game because everyone would know about how I did so in CONTROL. Bussing the same player the same way in two scumgames would mean that if the game has literally any of the same players or literally any player who looked at the previous game, they'd make the connection. It's surface-level stupidity to think I'd do the exact same move twice for the same scumbuddy.)

ah your post reminded me of this that had stuck out while reading. this post seems to ignore the reality that I don't think anyone could've prepared for Ircher's apparent scum slip and the subsequent storm that followed. who is to say mastina would have continued with the ircher push if that would have happened? like it just ignores the reality that there are situations where it would've been optimal to bus ircher as mastina!scum and I think mastina should have enough self-awareness to know that

I don't think that's a big point against her because she makes these types of arguments a lot but this argument in particular bugged me