You don’t know what scum would or wouldn’t do until you find the narrative.
Start from what is known which is Umlaut scum.
We know Meg is town. We know Datisi is town. I know I am town. I trust Datisi's scumhunting this game so that Chaos is town enough to run a VCA supposing he is.
Not doubting any of those reads.
I am saying your VCA is flawed.
Your VCA is better when you have a scum narrative. Your biggest weakness when doing VCA is not finding it which then makes it a field day for scum to manipulate.
VOTE: Unvote
Datisi is not scum in any plausible universe so he is not manipulating me.
Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?
Same with Alch and Luke.
These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.
Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?
My point is find the differences between this post and end of day. Who stayed on who moved off and who moved on. VCA is shit without the why.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:30 am
by MathBlade
Yes Umlaut didn’t hammer IIRC he was posting at that time.
Why? What was Umlaut doing?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:37 am
by ChaosOmega
You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.
That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:38 am
by Datisi
umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.
pedit: nice
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:42 am
by Titus
Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:43 am
by MathBlade
In post 1982, ChaosOmega wrote:You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.
That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.
Most D1s for a game of this size last about 600-1000 posts more or less.
The fact Meg wasn’t flipped here and was later means something. D1 went abnormally long
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:44 am
by MathBlade
In post 1983, Datisi wrote:umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.
pedit: nice
Again why are people assuming clearing or scum based on this?
That’s not my argument. My argument is find the narrative.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:45 am
by MathBlade
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.
By anyone edit by way of post.
I wish I had time to do a proper VCA but I don’t.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:49 am
by MathBlade
Also the whoever hammered would be under heat tomorrow is just historically not true.
If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
Furthermore it’s usually not hammers that get pressured. That’s a myth.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:49 am
by Datisi
most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.
HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:50 am
by Datisi
In post 1989, MathBlade wrote:If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
???????
are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:52 am
by MathBlade
In post 1990, Datisi wrote:most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.
HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?
Again not what I am saying.
I am saying a player town or scum hammers there. The day went on too long there that’s all. I have to go back and read that section to find why and see who hopped on later and who went off.
It’s more likely scum was on Meg and off later based on gut but I need to see what the thread narrative supports.
In a non deep wolf game Meg is hammered there.
I don’t like how you’re making arguments here that apply to specific players. I am analyzing the wagons to try to figure out what scum were doing combined with the narrative. It doesn’t point to players it points to gameplay style
In post 1989, MathBlade wrote:If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
???????
are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??
Not my point. I am saying that hammers don’t always get pressured.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:54 am
by Datisi
titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:55 am
by Titus
I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.
Humankind looks awesome.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:56 am
by ChaosOmega
If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED
Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:56 am
by MathBlade
In post 1994, Datisi wrote:titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.
No it’s not. That’s you making an assumption and putting words in my mouth AGAIN.
It’s what I am struggling with. That’s all. I don’t have an answer for that yet as I haven’t done a proper VCA.
Just because I point out a flaw doesn’t mean I necessarily have the solution.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:58 am
by MathBlade
In post 1995, Titus wrote:I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.
Humankind looks awesome.
It does.
You know what?
V/LA until Wednesday after work maybe Thursday
This gives me time to enjoy its release and maybe time for an actual VCA. Not whatever that BS was.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:59 am
by MathBlade
In post 1996, ChaosOmega wrote:If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED
Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.
I am saying someone would hammer there. SKs aren’t allowed in normals.
Day was way too long there. Find the reason for the outlier find the scum.